6 turns of combat

[spectre312]

Not like... my games last 6 hours...

 

I was just thinking outload, but realistically, the most shots you could possibly fire from a bolter is 12. 12 rounds, from an assualt rifle, that's maybe a full minute of combat. Lets say our Power armored buddies beathe a bit between shots, and stretch it to 2 minutes.

 

Now in my experience, in 6 turns of fighting, both sides take very, very heavy casualties. So all I can think is, the games we play truely do have to be the worst possible scenerios the space marines coule be facing. How many times have you matche where more than half of your forces are lost? three fourths? And then you figure in how long it takes to make a new marine....

 

It's kind of fun to think about, but how often would any chapter be able to fight if they take losses like that every battle? Just some ramblings, back to my corner.

[Forseti]

40k is completely unrealistic, but that's how it's supposed to be. If it went by fluff, you could have a single squad of Grey Hunters tearing through 1000pts of orks. (Wouldn't be so bad really, pay 50 bucks for a whole army XD)

 

I find the movement phase to be the weirdest in terms of time/distance.. say 1" is 1 metre, in a whole battle if they move nonstop they walk 36 metres forward.

 

Personally I'll be getting the Space Marine game when it's out so I can play a marine how he's supposed to be, cutting down hundreds upon hundreds of inferior xenos in the name of the emperor.

[Starblayde]

Personally I'll be getting the Space Marine game when it's out so I can play a marine how he's supposed to be, cutting down hundreds upon hundreds of inferior xenos in the name of the emperor.

 

Or play with the "Movie Marines" rule, in which a Tactical squad costs almost 2000 points and will still wipe the floor with most other armies.

[El Scotcho]

Yeah its kind of like in an RPG, a round of combat lasts roughly 6 seconds in real time. You gotta remember though that realistically, marinees are toned down for the table top. They actually did an article in white dwarf called codex movie marines or something like that, where one tactical squad costed 1500 points and had like 10 wounds per marine and 2+ armor save, and bolters were something like range 36 strength 7 ap 3 assault 6 rending and a sergeant with a chainsword was even more ridiculous than that.

 

I've always thought of the casualty thing like this, its more like a horrific wounding than people actually being outright killed. Unless they get hit by a heavy weapon or a power weapon or something, your average marine is probably gonna survive just about anything that he's thrown into, albeit with a few new scars afterwords. Now there are some chapters that are legendarily tough, off the top of my head I can think of, well...... us, and prolly the Salamanders (I'd think living on a high gravity volcano world would prolly toughen me up pretty good too, irl). You would expect battle brothers from chapters like this to be able to survive wounds that were even more horrible than an Ultramarine would be expected to shrug off. As an aside, could you imagine a chapter whose home world was Catachan? They might be even tougher than us.

 

 

@forseti, You know there going to try and make us wear the blue, as in ultramarines in that game right?

[Spacefrisian]

40k is completely unrealistic, but that's how it's supposed to be. If it went by fluff, you could have a single squad of Grey Hunters tearing through 1000pts of orks. (Wouldn't be so bad really, pay 50 bucks for a whole army XD)

 

you only need 5 marines. 4 to die heroicly slaughtering those orks, one to claim victory and raise the banner. (then die from fatal wounds) Just watch the opening of Dawn of war. B)

[El Scotcho]

Good point, they messed up when they wrote the codex movie marines.

 

You know, now that I think of it, why didn't they make Dawn of War about space wolves instead of Gabriel Angelos and his cronies? It's not like they couldn't have invented a Wolf Lord, and a great company could do even more damage than the stupid Blood Ravens. And we wouldn't have had so many problems with chaos either.

[OnlyInDeath]

Seriously though, if you want to see what a marine shold be like, play movie marine rules. At a local GW shop everyone donated a squad and we created a store battle company. in the first battle played with them, we gave them movie marine rules and pit them against and equal (roughly 45k) points worth of orks. Turn 1 the marines mauled the orks so bad, we had to give every unit the "without number" rule, otherwise it would have ended in turn two. Highlights of that game include an assault squad (just 10 assault marines) taking a charge from two green tides in subsequent turns (150 orks each) and only losing 2 of their number while killing the orks to the man (fearless is quite double edged when you are taking 40 unsaved wounds a turn; thats a possible 80 dead orks...per turn...) and a heavy bolter and 2 bolter marines downing a squiggoth in a round of shooting. something like 30 bikers mowed down in a turn....all 10 trukks of a trukk mob being torched. ghazgul and his 6 meganobs getting torn up in close combat by 4 marines before they can even hit back....The list goes on and on. In the end, more marines died from failed "death or glory" then from the orks themselves. the battle company lost about 15 marines over all, and the orks were wiped out....twice over. It was just nasty. and it was all with the standard movie marine stats w/ weapon statlines invented for the other special weapons not listed, no stunt doubles.

 

So yeah, try that if you want "fluffy" marines. And recognize the fact that the actual table top is incredibly unrealistic, so that GW can actually make money and not have ppl quit the game because they dont play 1 squad of uber marines.

[lunchb0x]

Not like... my games last 6 hours...

 

I was just thinking outload, but realistically, the most shots you could possibly fire from a bolter is 12. 12 rounds, from an assualt rifle, that's maybe a full minute of combat. Lets say our Power armored buddies beathe a bit between shots, and stretch it to 2 minutes.

 

You have no clue how easy it is to fire 12 rounds out of any rifle....a non full auto can dump 30rounds in a matter of seconds

 

Now in my experience, in 6 turns of fighting, both sides take very, very heavy casualties. So all I can think is, the games we play truely do have to be the worst possible scenerios the space marines coule be facing. How many times have you matche where more than half of your forces are lost? three fourths? And then you figure in how long it takes to make a new marine....

 

What combat experience do you have? I am guessing little to none, based purely on your opening statement about rifles.

 

It's kind of fun to think about, but how often would any chapter be able to fight if they take losses like that every battle? Just some ramblings, back to my corner.

[OnlyInDeath]

Not like... my games last 6 hours...

 

I was just thinking outload, but realistically, the most shots you could possibly fire from a bolter is 12. 12 rounds, from an assualt rifle, that's maybe a full minute of combat. Lets say our Power armored buddies beathe a bit between shots, and stretch it to 2 minutes.

 

You have no clue how easy it is to fire 12 rounds out of any rifle....a non full auto can dump 30rounds in a matter of seconds

 

Now in my experience, in 6 turns of fighting, both sides take very, very heavy casualties. So all I can think is, the games we play truely do have to be the worst possible scenerios the space marines coule be facing. How many times have you matche where more than half of your forces are lost? three fourths? And then you figure in how long it takes to make a new marine....

 

What combat experience do you have? I am guessing little to none, based purely on your opening statement about rifles.

 

It's kind of fun to think about, but how often would any chapter be able to fight if they take losses like that every battle? Just some ramblings, back to my corner.

 

Down, lunch, down. Yes, you could squeeze out 12 rounds in a minute from a bolt action, moreless a machine-grenade-launching-gun-of-doom. Seriously though, the 6 turns of combat would represent all of about 10 minutes on a battlefield, with the double tap from a bolter essentially representing a "clip" fired at the enemy....just with incredible inaccuracy.

[Starblayde]

You know, now that I think of it, why didn't they make Dawn of War about space wolves instead of Gabriel Angelos and his cronies?

 

Because some of us don't like chasing after sticks and being fed biscuits from a metal bowl on the floor?

 

Seriously, a new chapter with it's own mystery is a far better option than a very specific Chapter that would only appeal to a certain few, as well as better than Ultrasmurfs. Besides, you can always play Space Wolves in the Skirmish battles.

 

EDIT: I am, of course, in completely the wrong sub-forum to be blaspheming like this :P

[WG Vrox]

I was just thinking outload, but realistically, the most shots you could possibly fire from a bolter is 12. 12 rounds, from an assualt rifle, that's maybe a full minute of combat. Lets say our Power armored buddies beathe a bit between shots, and stretch it to 2 minutes

 

I always considered the number of shots not equal to the number of dice. I figured it would more be like a full clip a turn, however the 1 or 2 dice represents the full clip or one or two well choosen 3 burst shots.

 

WG Vrox.

[Hengist Ironfang]

where can i get a copy of codex movie marines?

[Grey Mage]

You know, now that I think of it, why didn't they make Dawn of War about space wolves instead of Gabriel Angelos and his cronies?

 

Because some of us don't like chasing after sticks and being fed biscuits from a metal bowl on the floor?

 

Seriously, a new chapter with it's own mystery is a far better option than a very specific Chapter that would only appeal to a certain few, as well as better than Ultrasmurfs. Besides, you can always play Space Wolves in the Skirmish battles.

 

EDIT: I am, of course, in completely the wrong sub-forum to be blaspheming like this :lol:

Actually Starblayde your main flaw here is that the Blood Ravens were NOT a new chapter when Dawn of War was being made- they have an IA and everything.

 

As for combat- I figure that "casualties" are just like in real life- people who can no longer continue fighting because of their wounds or are otherwise incapacitated. You dont have to be dead to be a casualty.

 

As for time frame- I arbitrarily decided each round was 1 minute. Based on vehicle movement being so restricted *though thats generous* and the occaisional "reload" rules taking a full turn.

 

But really- the game is supposed to create an epic feel.... not take epicly long.

[Decoy]

Kinda gotta agree with both Movie Marines rules, and GM on all points.

 

If you want to think about it abstractly, a Marine will not die to a Splinter Pistol, generally. He might die to fifty of them, or a hundred of them, but most certainly not one.

 

Furthermore, the way Ceramite is designed, one could safely assume that some of the "lesser" ammunitions, Shuriken, maybe Pulse blasts, Stubbers, et cetera, wouldn't stand a 1-in-6 chance of breaking through the armor. 1-50, sure. 1-100, more likely.

 

Top it all off with an analysis of the movement times/speeds, and I think you could safely say that if anything, the tabletop is an abstraction of what the actual combat is like, with points values representing relative worth. One Grey Hunter equals... I don't know... six guardsmen. If those six guardsmen all teamed up on the Marine all at once, with all weapons available to Guardsmen, they MIGHT have a 1-6 chance of bringing him down, or, more accurately, a 1-36 chance.

 

Anyways, that's how I see it, as convoluted as anything I've ever said.