Importance of Eternal Warrior

[White Hunter]

Hi everyone,

 

I have been trolling the internet and all the new codex threads, and am loving the new codex look. That being said one of the things that worries me about HQ's are their vulnerability. So how important is Eternal warrior for our armies HQ monsters? I love the idea of Ragnar or Njal but it seems to me that one powerfist to the face and my 240 point combat beast is toast. I know that that one unit does not an army make and you have to be willing to have every unit in your army die, but I am just wary of putting that many points into something that could easily get pwned. Am I completely alone on this?

 

As always have a barrel of ale on the blood claw.

[Lord Howland Greywolf]

Well my young freind it depends on who he will be up against. Since mine will be gunning for the big guys my lord has eternal warrior. But if you are making one that is tooled up to be a whirlwind of death for normal squads then I see no point in it.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

My gut reaction is to never take it.

 

Basically my view is that instant death is one of those core rules that's supposed to balance the killing power of characters with their vulnerability to being taken out in one lucky hit. The number of units that ignore it now is just ridiculous. Tough as Marneus Calgar is, he shouldn't be able to survive a hit by a railgun, a weapon designed to annihilate tanks, nor should Logan Grimnar. Lysander's fluff suggest he has a reputation for surviving against the odds, so his rule is justifiable.

[Gentlemanloser]

Very Important.

 

-CHOP- -CHOP-

[Spacefrisian]

I think its a nice addition to units. Although eternal warriors might be suprised when they get removed from play by Inq units. (as did a nid player once when i was lucky, Hive Tyrant, and 2 Carnifexes)

[Valhalla]

I won't use it in favor of saga of the warrior born, I prefer to use my HQ's to chop through enemy infantry. That said with Ragnar at 240 points its somewhat concerning he can still be dropped with one powerfist. Most characters at that point level (Calgar, Abandon, Logan, Gzaghkull and Samuel) have protection from ID.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Or a fellow SW, RP with the Jaws of the World Wolf.

[earthen]

My gut reaction is to never take it.

 

Basically my view is that instant death is one of those core rules that's supposed to balance the killing power of characters with their vulnerability to being taken out in one lucky hit. The number of units that ignore it now is just ridiculous. Tough as Marneus Calgar is, he shouldn't be able to survive a hit by a railgun, a weapon designed to annihilate tanks, nor should Logan Grimnar. Lysander's fluff suggest he has a reputation for surviving against the odds, so his rule is justifiable.

 

uh.... Have you read marenus' fluff????

[Chucku]

I have serious reservations taking a character over 200 pts with EW. Njal is even worse - his basic set up doesn't have an invul save (beyond runic) either! In my opinion I'm only taking Ragnar when I'm positive I can wipe the whole enemy squad out before a PF can hit him - this means taking something like a squad of BC or WG, a Wolf Priest, etc (megaPts!).

[White Hunter]

So I'm kind of getting the feel that if I want my HQ to go hunting troops or softer/squishier targets than EW is not necessary, but If I want my HQ as an elite hunter EW could be worth its point's cost and then some.

 

p.s.

 

I am asking this because I had the idea of arjak and 5 wolf guard with wolf claws with ragnar. Furious charge with the wolf claws, and the +d3 attacks could wipe out almost any unit in the game. that is potentially 38 I6 S5 attacks plus 7 S10 I1 TH attacks :D

[Vash113]

uh.... Have you read marenus' fluff????

 

If you mean the bit about Marneus getting owned by the Tyranids and losing both legs, both arms, an eye and assorted other body parts in a single rearguard action then... yes I do recall something of that nature. Maybe it's getting off topic but in my opinion Marneus is a lame duck compared to Helbrecht, Logan, Dante etc. He wasn't even the one who beat the Tyranids at Macragge, that was the Segmentum Fleet Admiral (Emperor rest his soul).

 

Or consider Lysander who vanished in the warp, got captured by the Iron Warriors and tortured almost to death before he broke out and started killing them with his bare hands, got back to the Imperial Fists and then returned with an army and wiped out every Iron Warrior he could get his hands on.

 

Even with Mat Ward's obsessively self agrandising fluff in the new C:SM Marneus doesn't come off that well in my opinion but maybe that's just me... :D

 

So I'm kind of getting the feel that if I want my HQ to go hunting troops or softer/squishier targets than EW is not necessary, but If I want my HQ as an elite hunter EW could be worth its point's cost and then some.

 

That is correct. Arm your HQ for what you want him to do. If you think he'll be going up against lots of Carnifex's with Crusher Claws than Eternal Warrior and a Storm Shield would be VERY good investments. If he's going to be regularly chopping his way through Eldar Guardians or Imperial Guardsmen than well... your better off buying something else.

 

Also keep in mind your regular opponents rules, not all Power Fists are strength 8 after all. Guardsmen or Sisters of Battle with Eviscerators or Power Fists are still only strength 6, not enough to insta gib ya.

[El Scotcho]

You have the basics of it. Do you want a creature hunter or infantry tornado? Both have their benefits and downfalls. Me personally, I'm banking on being able to rip through them fast enough to not worry about potential return strikes, hence my wolf lord having a thunderwolf and warrior born. But I also want to be able to kill big stuff, so I'll have a Wolf Guard Battle Leader with a thunder hammer storm shield and a wolf tooth necklace and saga of the bear leading a blood claw squad to hopefully take on some big bad enemy models or characters.

 

One good thing about our new codex is that we don't have to take a special named hero to have a decent hq choice, we can build the exact one we want, without losing too much.

[Levitas]

I think what he mostly looking at is the lack of eternal warrior on the special characters.

 

In short, it make a massive difference and the main reason i wont use most of the point heavy SC who dont have it. If Lysander is 200pts and has it then thats a good enough bench mark for me.

 

Instant death is in most lists, hidden fists, powerclaw nobz etc. Even a lascannon to the face will put a short end to any heroes saga should he wonder from his pack.

 

I do however think that GW are not consistent with who they give EW too. Lysander - yes (hard as), kantor - no (can take the might of an ork waaagh, but not a sneaky fist to the chops). Random.

 

Not having EW with a combat specialist will make you very cautious of certain units and lists. Better to slap it on a homebrew HQ and wade in without a worry.

 

Play a few games using EW and you wont be able to live without it - or rather your HQ wont :whistling:

[White Hunter]

One of the reasons I was looking at ragnar was the addition furious charge rule which makes Wolf Claws really, really killy? So how much of a benefit is it to the wolf claws to get furious charge?

[Levitas]

One of the reasons I was looking at ragnar was the addition furious charge rule which makes Wolf Claws really, really killy? So how much of a benefit is it to the wolf claws to get furious charge?

 

The spike in both initiative and strength means that they will be hitting first against all but the fastest of foes. Then most likely wounding on 3's or 2's vs stuff like Guard. Add in that they will probably have a ton of attacks to begin with and it gets scary.

 

If you have ever played Blood Angels then you'd know just how scary.

 

Plus a powerfist swing at str 9 is nice. Str 5 on AV10 tanks will make a mess. Plague marines at T5 will be worried.

 

So Ragnar does bring a lot to the table despite not having Eternal Warrior. He puts his bet on completely wiping out a unit before they can get a fist to his face. Just dont go charging a full 10 man squad of hammer termies and you should be good to roll.

[Vash113]

So Ragnar does bring a lot to the table despite not having Eternal Warrior. He puts his bet on completely wiping out a unit before they can get a fist to his face. Just dont go charging a full 10 man squad of hammer termies and you should be good to roll.

 

Heck with a full 15 Blood Claws and a Wolf Guard Leader I'd fully expect 10 Hammer and Shield Termies to go down hard before ever getting to swing. That's a ton of attacks coming their way, especially if the Claws and Wolf Guard have Power Weapons or Wolf Claws and will be forcing a lot of 3+ saves rather than 2+ it could get uggly fast.

 

Ragnar is a good investment depending on how you choose to use him regardless of Eternal Warrior. Just don't throw him at the aforementioned Hammer and Shield Termies alone and he should be ok.

 

Actually your better off fearing wiping out your target and being left facing an angry Vindicator or something of that nature. :P

[Askari]

Actually wolves will stand out as the only new marine codex made for 5th edtion that sill allows regular characters to take eternal warrior. Right now in C:SM only Calagar and Lysander have it. In Chaos only Abaddon, the greatest Chaos marine ever, and the monstrous creatures Daemon Princes. Only Ghazzie has it in orks, The Unkillkable Commissar in Guard, all the monstrous creatures in Tyranids and daemons. That's not a lot. Only 4 armies can take it without a special character, in three it basically only works on monstrous creatures and heralds in daemons.

Eternal Warrior has been gradually phased out of marine armies especially.

[Florida Gator]

Let me put it this way... Rail gun no killey :lol:

[Askari]

The general idea is if you'll be using your commander to slaughter troops use saga of bear. If you want to take on Fexes, dreads, and Bloodthirsters, use warrior born.

[El Scotcho]

I just realized that in my painting delirium earlier (I blame the fumes from the primer) I didn't answer you question. My answer is yes, take eternal warrior whenever possible, because as Florida Gator put it rail gun no killey, also you don't have to worry about demolishers or force weapons or anything else that would put almost any other char off the table.

 

@ Askari, I think you meant the reverse of that there bud

[Askari]

Oops yep. It's bear for big nasties and warrior born for taking out small (at least for 40k) things

[Freman Bloodglaive]

My gut reaction is to never take it.

 

Basically my view is that instant death is one of those core rules that's supposed to balance the killing power of characters with their vulnerability to being taken out in one lucky hit. The number of units that ignore it now is just ridiculous. Tough as Marneus Calgar is, he shouldn't be able to survive a hit by a railgun, a weapon designed to annihilate tanks, nor should Logan Grimnar. Lysander's fluff suggest he has a reputation for surviving against the odds, so his rule is justifiable.

 

uh.... Have you read marenus' fluff????

 

Which set, second edition, third edition, fourth edition or fifth?

 

Or Mat Ward's fanboy contributions?

[Vanger]

It's important. Most players hunt for their opponents characters with big guns, that which would cause instant death, so EW is justified for any character you would send into the fray.

[hilander]

It's important. Most players hunt for their opponents characters with big guns, that which would cause instant death, so EW is justified for any character you would send into the fray.

 

What about mounting your lord on a thunderwolf instead of giving him EW? It increases his T to 5 which basically rips most power fists, meltas and even lascannons from instant death against him, the downside is no transport option and limited choice of squads he can attach to...decisions, decisions :devil:

[Quillen]

Cause Bikes and Wolves add it to normal weapons but you still count as tough 4 to instant death weapons. So you would still get blow to pieces. It's like the Oblits for chaos. They are tough 5 but when hit with a las cannon they are actually tough 4 so poof dead.

 

Warrior born is sweet, but you can still cripple anything he bumps into with Bear. Think about it. 3 or 4 of his attacks hit causing death with hardly a chance of any save against almost anything he touched, and he is way tougher. Now Warrior Born rocks but dead is dead and you can't make dead deader, messier sure but it's still dead.

 

With EW he will live to keep splatting a few targets each turn. With Warrior born he might get fragged by that fist hidden in a squad. Think about or lists. I have killed so many HQ with the fists in my Grey Hunter packs. Surely you have too. EW makes him live way long.

 

And we can have a few HQ choices, so you can run 2 guys. One a blender, the other a tank.