Hfran Morkai Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Well it appears that my beloved Blood Claws aren't going to be as ferocious as they once were, which is a shame for my planned apocalypse army. I was going to run 2 Crusaders in an armoured wedge behind my lord and bodyguard full of blood claws, however with the new dex I feel I shall be running two tooled up wolf guard squads with plenty of nifty upgraded weapons to deal death and destruction whilst still counting as scoring due to having Grimnar lurk somewhere, Or I might make them terminators to make more out of the transport capacity of the raiders. Each squad will have either a wolf lord or WGBL attached for fluff reasons, and being sick in combat. Thoughts? And as a self-professed fluff monster the blood claws will still exist and be on the charge, just not with the lord. It represents the finest of the chapters warriors coming together to wage war. And remember this is for apocalypse, points concerns do not exist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178723-a-cunning-read-expensive-plan/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Scotcho Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I like the idea. Not sure how I would do it though. I don't know if you've gotten to sit down and really read the codex, but in it is a little nugget that basically says that no self respecting commander of the space wolves would ever copy another commander as far as wargear is concerned. I only bring this to your attention because you said that you enjoy the fluff. What I think I would do with this spearhead force is give my Wolf Lord a plasma pistol,a power fist, and Terminator armor and prolly Saga of the Bear, so he would want to go toe to toe with really big, bad critters and vehicles. I'd stick him with a unit of wolf guard in TDA with a bunch of cyclones and power fists, just to emphasize this fact. For Wolf Guard Battle Leader #1 I would give him a frost blade, bolt pistol, wolf tooth necklace, and leave him in power armor, and give him warrior born. Have him ride around with Wolf Guard tooled out with close combat weapons, personally I'd give them bolt pistols and chainswords, and if you can (I don't remember) give them all wolf tooth necklaces to help them hit good all the time. The second WGBL would get power armor again and mark of the wulfen and maybe saga of the wolfkin, and he'd ride around in a LRC packed full of blood claws, with a pack of wolves following, all assaulting at the same time. With all of this you get A) your blood claws B) a really badass cc wgbl and C) a big bad monster killer of a wolf lord Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178723-a-cunning-read-expensive-plan/#findComment-2114047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillen Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I was looking it over and the BC did get hit with a nerf stick but not so much they are worthless. You just run them with a Wolf Gaurd pack leader and they will do fine. Basicly we have the same packs as before we just have to pay more and use a Wolf Gaurd Pack Leader to get us there. All thou the BC are still one fist now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178723-a-cunning-read-expensive-plan/#findComment-2114062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORKILL Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Fluff wise the WG with BCs makes more sense, anyway. I used to run the Wolf Lord with them at times.......but, it always bothered me. The WL should be with the elite WG, not with the suicidal BCs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178723-a-cunning-read-expensive-plan/#findComment-2114090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 Seems to be a bit of confusion, the Wolf Lord was never with the blood claws, they were to act as supporting units for the lord and his bodyguard, which doesn't really make sense because the lord doesn't need the support of whelps. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178723-a-cunning-read-expensive-plan/#findComment-2114116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumdin Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 In some of the novels, I know of at least once instance where Ragnar Blackmane led a blood claw pack and left some of his wolfguard to lead the grey hunter packs. Maybe the Blood claws needing a much stronger hand to reign them in and control their lust for combat. So fluff wise its not completely unheard of having a wolf lord lead a blood claw unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178723-a-cunning-read-expensive-plan/#findComment-2114132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I like the idea. Not sure how I would do it though. I don't know if you've gotten to sit down and really read the codex, but in it is a little nugget that basically says that no self respecting commander of the space wolves would ever copy another commander as far as wargear is concerned. I only bring this to your attention because you said that you enjoy the fluff. What I think I would do with this spearhead force is give my Wolf Lord a plasma pistol,a power fist, and Terminator armor and prolly Saga of the Bear, so he would want to go toe to toe with really big, bad critters and vehicles. I'd stick him with a unit of wolf guard in TDA with a bunch of cyclones and power fists, just to emphasize this fact. For Wolf Guard Battle Leader #1 I would give him a frost blade, bolt pistol, wolf tooth necklace, and leave him in power armor, and give him warrior born. Have him ride around with Wolf Guard tooled out with close combat weapons, personally I'd give them bolt pistols and chainswords, and if you can (I don't remember) give them all wolf tooth necklaces to help them hit good all the time. The second WGBL would get power armor again and mark of the wulfen and maybe saga of the wolfkin, and he'd ride around in a LRC packed full of blood claws, with a pack of wolves following, all assaulting at the same time. With all of this you get A) your blood claws :ph34r: a really badass cc wgbl and C) a big bad monster killer of a wolf lord You can't give a model in TDA a plasma pistol. Never give an independent character Mark of the Wulfen, it is a complete waste of their potential. Also can't give your Wolf Guard a "bunch" of Cyclones; max is two heavy TDA weapons for a ful 10 man pack of Wolf Guard. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178723-a-cunning-read-expensive-plan/#findComment-2114137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Actually, Blood Claws are slightly cheaper than they were - 17pts in 3rd as opposed to 15 now. The difference is you don't get the choice for Grenades. Otherwise, they remain identical to how they were, and are thus as lethal as ever. The crux of the issue is that Wolf Guard have seen a real term points drop of 12 points (25+1+1+2+1, 'Nades and BP/CCW) and a more efficient use whilst the Grey Hunters have seen a drop of 6 points plus a massive buff in the form of Ultra Grit. Overall, it comes down to your plan style. To do similar damage with Wolf Guard, it'll cost a lot of points extra to include Ragnar and even more to throw in the Special Weapons. GH's are less potent, but more all round. Blood Claws will continue to be a useful part of the SW army and they are scoring to boot! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178723-a-cunning-read-expensive-plan/#findComment-2114189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firenze Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 No, BCs were 14 pts, not 17 pts. thats GH. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178723-a-cunning-read-expensive-plan/#findComment-2114213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 No, BCs were 14 pts, not 17 pts. thats GH. Actually, Blood Claws are slightly cheaper than they were - 17pts in 3rd as opposed to 15 now. The difference is you don't get the choice for Grenades. Emphasis mine. 14+1+2=17, if my maths is good. As I said, it's a perceived increase but in fact a real terms decrease. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178723-a-cunning-read-expensive-plan/#findComment-2114229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 No, BCs were 14 pts, not 17 pts. thats GH. Actually, Blood Claws are slightly cheaper than they were - 17pts in 3rd as opposed to 15 now. The difference is you don't get the choice for Grenades. Emphasis mine. 14+1+2=17, if my maths is good. As I said, it's a perceived increase but in fact a real terms decrease. ^_^ Vassalov, I think the difference that has most people put off is that you could have 3 Power Fists in your pack in the old list (not counting WGL) and now you can only have 1 (also not counting WGL). Even though you can now add a guy with MoW, they still don't hit as hard as they used to. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178723-a-cunning-read-expensive-plan/#findComment-2114277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnars Claw Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 They hit harder when accompanied by a wolf priest ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178723-a-cunning-read-expensive-plan/#findComment-2114284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 They hit harder when accompanied by a wolf priest ^_^ They do and that would be more fluffy which is a requirement. But I love Terminators so lots of spam there. Particularly with Cyclones Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178723-a-cunning-read-expensive-plan/#findComment-2114289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 They hit harder when accompanied by a wolf priest ^_^ Yes, the Wolf Priest and his Oath of War certainly help, but I'm not sure it makes up for the loss of two Power Fists. Some will be perfectly satisfied. The point still stands, howeverthat base BC don't really do much for you that another GH can't do ( Wolf Priest could help them just as easily). SwiftClaws or SkyClaws are different, as they have great mobility, and can fill an assault role better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178723-a-cunning-read-expensive-plan/#findComment-2114294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 They hit harder when accompanied by a wolf priest :) Yes, the Wolf Priest and his Oath of War certainly help, but I'm not sure it makes up for the loss of two Power Fists. Some will be perfectly satisfied. The point still stands, howeverthat base BC don't really do much for you that another GH can't do ( Wolf Priest could help them just as easily). SwiftClaws or SkyClaws are different, as they have great mobility, and can fill an assault role better. I was thinking of taking another couple of hunter squads but decided against it. I will miss three power weapons in that squad and then a Wolf Guard and some form of priest, and meltabombs as well. But I shall adapt! I plan on making up quite a few Sky Claws and Swiftclaws, if only bikes weren't so physically expensive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178723-a-cunning-read-expensive-plan/#findComment-2114300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Runner Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Fluff wise the WG with BCs makes more sense, anyway. I used to run the Wolf Lord with them at times.......but, it always bothered me. The WL should be with the elite WG, not with the suicidal BCs. I have to agree here. Fluff-wise BC should not be with the WL, at most with a WGBL or a WP. but the again in the novels you do find Ragnar with the BC (but you could consider Ragnar an exception due to is background as a successful ex-BC). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178723-a-cunning-read-expensive-plan/#findComment-2114301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Runner Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Seems to be a bit of confusion, the Wolf Lord was never with the blood claws, they were to act as supporting units for the lord and his bodyguard, which doesn't really make sense because the lord doesn't need the support of whelps. A 7.5 foot tall crazy war lusting chainsword wielder with fangs is not a whelp. Just inexperienced. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178723-a-cunning-read-expensive-plan/#findComment-2114306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMoon Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 in the eyes of a wolf lord or even a greyhunter they are whelps. they have to earn there respect and status. thats why they always put a wolf guard with them so they might learn from his age and wisdome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178723-a-cunning-read-expensive-plan/#findComment-2114308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 No, BCs were 14 pts, not 17 pts. thats GH. Actually, Blood Claws are slightly cheaper than they were - 17pts in 3rd as opposed to 15 now. The difference is you don't get the choice for Grenades. Emphasis mine. 14+1+2=17, if my maths is good. As I said, it's a perceived increase but in fact a real terms decrease. :) Actually Vassakov.... Bloodclaws came with Frag Grenades. You could give them Meltabombs for 4 pts a model though, putting them at 18pts- but a bit ahead of their codex brethren. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178723-a-cunning-read-expensive-plan/#findComment-2114327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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