White Hunter Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Okay, so I was looking at HQoptions and had a question if you use a WGBL with Saga of the Hunter can you put him in a dedicated LRC full of Wolf Guard and outflank the entire transport? (I believe so if I read it correctly Second, could you then take another HQ with Saga of the Hunter if you equipped the other HQ differently, say another WGBL with different weapons, could you do this again and have 2 outflanking LRC's full of Wolf Guard? Thanks everybody. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zemox Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I would assume you could actually, considering say chosens in a rhino will allow the rhino to outflank aswell, and the broodlord gives his retinue outflank, so in my book you could, but my rulebook is on the other side of the world (literally) so i wont be able to get a quote. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillen Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I was looking at this too. And it seems so. The HQ has the ability and the rest is his transport and his body gaurd. Seems sound to me. I expect to see this alot. Everyone with a desent amount of grey matter is seeing this option and the slower ones will pick it up after it slaughters their back ranks. I only got to look at the codex for a little bit. Mostly I was talking to the manager and rearranging models to make better packs for the new Dex. p.s.- Use the Flamer Raider. Coming in the back side those cookers might get to roast something right off the bat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Scotcho Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 After reading it I had the same question. I personally read it and say yes, but I could see why an opponent would piss and moan about this. i say try it and see what happens, and keep using it until gdub says we can't (Unless your playing your friends and don't want to roflstomp them that bad) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Nope. The IC with Saga of the Hunter does not grant the Outflank ability to the unit he attaches to. So unless you like the idea of sending an IC out by himself on a suicide mission, SotH is about worthless. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrne Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I agree, he will be the only one with the skill. but you could put him with scouts it seems. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valhalla Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I'd have to look at the codex again but I think you probably could. You can in the normal marine codex and I'm pretty sure you can in the BT one as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natanael Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 You make your transport outflank if it is a dedicated transport (like tau pathfinders. They confer their scout rule to the devilfish). But if it's not a dedicated transport to the unit w/ outflank, scout or whatever, it does not apply to the transport. Thats how I read the rules at least. And then, "No, you cant outflank your crusader unless you manage to make it a dedicated transport to you WGBL somehow". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I agree, he will be the only one with the skill. but you could put him with scouts it seems. Nope. You can't even put him with Scouts, they have Behind Enemy Lines, which is distinct from Outflank. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMoon Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 i have to agree a IC never confers rules like that to a unit. a broodlord dose cause it specifically says so. thats the soul reason i put typhus with a squad of deathguard instead of terminators. he dosnt give the termys fearless and im not about to have typhus fail a combat and get ran down cause his squad is a bunch of chickens lol. i do see a few random times you would give a character this saga tho. fighting eldar with a big squad of d cannon or reapers. he should be able to maul through them pretty easy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 *Eyes flaring blue as his head spins grey mage receives a vision of the future from the emperor* I see.... a mozzarella.... and cold snows for our hunting brethren..... and in a few months time a FAQ! It shall be glorious, short, and completely fail to reliably solve this obvious oversight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeddon Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I agree, he will be the only one with the skill. but you could put him with scouts it seems. Nope. You can't even put him with Scouts, they have Behind Enemy Lines, which is distinct from Outflank. yes you can, scouts have the infiltrate and scout universal special rules which give them outflank. you simply loose the behind enemy lines if you use this option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I agree with Aeddon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I agree, he will be the only one with the skill. but you could put him with scouts it seems. Nope. You can't even put him with Scouts, they have Behind Enemy Lines, which is distinct from Outflank. yes you can, scouts have the infiltrate and scout universal special rules which give them outflank. you simply loose the behind enemy lines if you use this option. Oh yes certainly, that I agree with. I should have been clearer: you wouldn't be able stick an IC with SotH with the Scouts and have them all still BEL. They'd have to all use the standard Outflank rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valhalla Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Kinda weak if he doesn't give the ability to his squad, makes it untakeable unless you want him outflanking by himself. That said I need to look at the codex to confirm, odds are this will be addressed in our FAQ when released if that saga doesn't work for the whole squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeddon Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Here's something interesting...outflank is not a universal special rule onto itself...looking on page 48 of the rulebook it only addresses special rules when it talks about conferring abilities from the IC to the unit and visa-versa...in your minds would this make any difference? I'm now not completely certain that I couldn't, say, attach him to a full squad of Bloodclaws and outflank them... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Here's something interesting...outflank is not a universal special rule onto itself...looking on page 48 of the rulebook it only addresses special rules when it talks about conferring abilities from the IC to the unit and visa-versa...in your minds would this make any difference? I'm now not completely certain that I couldn't, say, attach him to a full squad of Bloodclaws and outflank them... USR or not, if the rules don't say you can, then you can't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMoon Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 i agree it would only confer if it specifically says it gives him stealth and outflank "as well as the squad he is attached to" like it says for exarch powers or strakens rules for example. it is spos to represent a wolf sent on his own to sneak around and reek havoc on small squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillen Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Yeah but your missing the point. You think a Wolf Gaurd pack is a stand alone pack. They are a body guard. You Assign them to a Heroe. Sorta like wargear. Here is my Wolf lord and his personal body gaurd. So I could see him moving a squad of Wolf Gaurds with him. It's not over powered, no more then the ork guy I see all the time running around my back field in games. he brings in a pack with him. Hopefully a FAQ will indeed be made as our brother above posted, but like him I am sure we could drive a land raider through it and still not hit a straight and honest problem solving statement from them even a couple of months down the road. I don't have a copy of the rules in front of me and I can't get down town to the store to look it over again. It's a pain to anyways. Someone look up how the Wolf Gaurd are assigned. Is it still as a Body gaurd to a specific charctor. if so they are one usnit and move together. And so probly would be able to go with him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Scotcho Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 No they're now an elites choice, not an hq slot like an honor guard in the 'nilla 'dex. You can choose to use them attached to your wolf lord, or you can piecemeal them out to act similar to sergeants. Also, we no longer have a 20 WG limit, you can fill all of your 3 1337 choices with squads of 10 wolf guard, or if you take grimnar you can take up to 60 as troops, but they can't be taken as elites. I'm still unsure as to whether or not a WGBL with MotH can't confer outflank to the unit he's leading, as this seems to be the trend with characters nowadays, with for instance vulkan he'stan giving flamethrowers and meltas army wide his special rules, why can't we have hq options that can do it to one squad? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 When you say "choose to use them attached to your Wolf Lord" does that mean as a bodygaurd? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natanael Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 No, it means that he can join them, like he can join any other squad. At least that my guess of what El Scotcho is saying. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2114926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 No, it means that he can join them, like he can join any other squad. At least that my guess of what El Scotcho is saying. Quillen, to make it clear, there is no Bodyguard anymore; the Wolf Guard pack is an Elites choice with 3-10 models (could use all of your Elites slots and take 3 of these packs). An IC can attach to them if they want, just like they can with any other pack, as per the basic IC rules. So, just like any other unit, an IC doesn't grant his special abilities to a pack that he attaches to/joins unless the rule explicitly states that he does. In this instance, Saga of the Hunter does not say anything about granting the ability, so he clearly does not, until an errata is generated to change that. I believe that a lot of the confusion on this point was generated by folks assuming that the WG stll worked as they did in the previous codex, which they do not. Hope this is clearer now, regards, Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2115902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravelybravesirrobin Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Saga of the hunter + Thunderwolf + frost blade outflank with a 6" move, fleet and 12" charge on a 2W, T5 (or is it T4(5) on a character), str6, init 5, 5 attack character. He will eventually die as he isn't amazingly survivable but what a surprise that will be to people. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2115917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Sounds like a job for a WGBL. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178726-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-2116033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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