500 pts Pure Grey Knights vs Black Legion

[fuzbuckle]

My brother and I have decided to start playing 40k. I've actually played 2 infantry based games in 4th edition as Smurfs and 1 5th edition game with the AoBR armies. After much forum trolling I have decided on Grey Knights (against the advice of most players I know).

 

The plan is to start small and build our armies simultaneously. For financial reasons we're both going to buy about 500pts worth of stuff sometime this week. He'll be playing the Black Legion (not sure which units though). I'm getting the codex today so I don't have point values but based on all I've read I figured the following would get me in the ballpark of around 500pts:

 

Brother Captain with Psycannon + Targeter

 

6 PAGK + Justicar + Targeter

 

6 PAGK + Justicar + Targeter

 

Eventually I want to have An HQ with a couple of Termies, 3 PAGK squads as troops and then 3 x TLLC/ML Dreds unless the LR option is considered easier to use for a noob (knowing that I picked what many consider to be a difficult army already).

 

Thanks

[WarriorFish]

Against the advice of most players you know? I'd consider that reason enough! :) Welcome to the B&C brother - especially the Inquisitional part!

 

I'm not primarily a GK player, but for the start of an army that looks good to me. After all, there's not much you can do in 500pts, especially with an expensive army! You expansion ideas are solid too, but you can always change your mind as you learn more about how you play - there's a lot of good advice on playing pure GK so you should find and read those topics.

 

GKTs are rock hard too, and I consider them better than normal SM Termies (certainly for the price!) and that's before you take into account how awesome they look!

 

I won't go into any more, since you're just starting out and I'm sure a veteran GK player can give some more specific ideas. Good luck in your games!

[number6]

Welcome! Going pure GK at 500 pts is practically impossible. What you've got is almost as good as you can do. It is technically possible to squeeze in a dreadnought, but ... meh. Enjoy your 500 pt games but don't worry too much about winning/losing them. IMHO, 40K isn't really 40K until 1500 pts. And 1000 pts is generally the minimum before you can even get something approaching the actual "feel" of your chosen army on the table. It's the lowest points level where you might actually be able to apply real tactics and unit coordination.

 

Do please check out the various tactical advice articles available in our Online Resources topic pinned at the top of the forum.

 

Regarding dreadnoughs v land raiders: In 4th edition I was a strong proponent of the mostly footslogging, mostly GK army anchored by heavy support dreads. Worked out really well for me. And in general, I think 4th edition 40K was pretty friendly to foot lists and tactics. As I've been playing more and more 40K under the latest (5th) edition rules, I've been more and more convinced that pure GK is not nearly as viable as it once was, and furthermore, that even if you play pure GK, you really need to use land raiders. But even fully mech'd pure GK is going to have problems against some armies (even if it will have a good time steamrolling certain others).

 

If you intend to get "competitive" with your DH, then I strongly encourage you to use the full width and breadth of options available to you from the codex. Use ISTs, consider sisters allies, induct some IG platoons, put as many of your troops into transports as you can.

 

Free advice, worth what you paid for it. ;)

[fuzbuckle]

Thanks for the welcomes and the advice. Some of the strategy articles that I found here are what convinced me to register. I have considered expanding beyond just the GK's but since I'm mostly going to be playing friendly games with my brother and some friends at my FLGS I'm going to start with just the GK's. Just like Sgt Learchus of the Ultramarines said ('I'm paraphrasing), "We train for the impossible so that the possible is made easy."

[jeffersonian000]

One thing I should mention before you get too far: targeters are not an option for anyone in terminator armour.

 

At 500pts, GK's actually aren't all that bad. I like to run a similar list:

 

:no: (91pts)

BC w/ Psycannon

 

:D (206pts)

Justicar w/ frag grenades, melta bombs

6x PAGK

 

;) (203pts)

Justicar w/ Auspex, Targeter

4x PAGK w/ 2x Psycannon

 

500pts even, lots of dakka, lots of mobility

 

SJ

[Archon_77]

Being almost exactly where you are about 2 months ago, and having gone the EXACT same route as far as buying/building your army I can give a little bit of advice.

 

As number6 has mentioned your options are very limited as far as unit choices and things you can build into, but don't let that stop you, and limited options aren't even necessarily a bad thing. Use this time to figure out HOW best to use your GK. Try to get a handle for the magical 24" range, master the arts of scoot and shoot and assualt, find out how best to use cover and LOS on the map. These are the building blocks of a successful GK force, and if you have it mastered for your small unit, it will hopefully carry over into a larger army build. Remember always that you will be outnumbered, and each unit is precious; so play them that way at the start; and the very small 500 pt. force will help you do that.

 

Best of luck, and welcome aboard. And no matter what, have fun!

[fuzbuckle]

Tonight I shall smite the Emperors enemies with holy bolter fire and blessed blade. I will suffer not the heretic to live. Though we number few, we are the Hammer of the Undying Master of Mankind. Your litanies of battle have imbued in us a spirit of victory, and though I may not return I shall spend all the breath that I have on felling the wretched forces of Chaos. FOR THE EMPEROR!!!!!!!!

[Justicar Valius]

For the god EMPRAH!!!!! awseome. good luck and hope you boot his heretic but right back to the warp.

 

Also never ever mention lash of submission or later on he will take 2 daemon princes with lash of submission which can be very problematic for anyone yet alone daemonhunters.

 

And i agree on the terminators. They are my very faveourite models in the WHOLE of the citadel range and they are ultra killy.

 

I also agree with No.6 on IST 9 IST 2 meltas and a rhino with extra armour and smoke launchers is 168 points. With that exact squad i blew up a 250 point landraider crusader on saturday. They are very fun.

[fuzbuckle]

So I used a modified version of Jeffersonian's list

 

1x Brother Captain w/psycannon + targeter (I couldn't find anywhere in the codex where it said that units in Termie armor can't take them, though it didn't matter 'cause I didn't have to use it. My brother is definitely a fire player).

 

1x Justicar w/psycannon bolts, Frags, and Targeter

5x PAGK

 

1x Justicar w/Targeter

2x PAGK w/psycannons

3x PAGK

 

He played Some crazy HQ with 4 attacks, Furious Charge, Plasma Pistol, Frags, A power weapon that always hits on a 2+ (but wounds his own units if it rolls a 1 to hit)

 

5 or 6x Berserkers with 1x plasma pistol(His HQ was joined with these guys throughout the game)

 

5x Noise Marines

 

Since we were only doing 500 Points we decided to do 2 objectives. He won initiative and chose to go 2nd. The terrain was set up from my perspective with trees in the north west, ruins and obj A in the north east, a giant hill in the center of the game board, trees to the south west and a small hill in the south east.

 

He deployed his noise marines max range in toward the trees in the north west and his HQ and berserkers as a squad towards the ruins and Obj A in the north east.

 

I deployed my mini purg squad due south of Obj B and the trees in the south west and then deployed my BC about 6" away from my PAGK in the gap created by the hill in the center of the table and the hill in the south east.

 

Turn 1: Because of how he deployed, my Purg Squad Psycannons were in range and I dropped 1 of his noise marines after saves. I also moved my BC and PAGK squad so that my BC was able to pop off one of his Beserkers and 3 of my PAGK's were able to take SB shots at his beserkers but no wounds.

 

He proceeded to capture obj A with the HQ and berserkers and then move towards Obj B with his noise marines and take a couple of shots with his oversized boom boxes but I sustained no wounds.

 

Turn 2: I wanted to try and pick off some noise marines before they got too close so I moved up a couple of inches and brought all of my SB's to bare but failed to wound my psycannons were unable to shoot. BC moved back slightly and missed all 3 of his shots. PAGK's brought all 12 dice to bare on the Berserkers and dropped 1 or 2 more.

 

He moved his Berserkers & HQ slightly forward but I was well out of range. He continued to move his noise marines forward and took a couple more shots. Again, all wounds were saved against.

 

Turn 3: I moved the BC so that he had LOS to both units since on the last turn the lead noise marine passed the edge of the big center hill and I moved my Purg Squad Back and to the left judging that they would still be able to hit with the psycannons because of the moves he made on turns one and two plus his 12" deployment. I was right and was able to reduce his squad to 3 after saving throws. I also move the PAGK's to the right on top of the small hill thinking rightly that he was going to assault in turn 4 and I wanted him to have to come through cover but still be able to run to obj a once I dealt with his forces (I didn't know about all of the goodies he was packing). I hit him with an obscene amount of wounds between the 12 SB shots and 3 Psycannon shots. His berserkers were whittled down to just 2.

 

He moved his Berserker+HQ squad forward and for the 1st time were able to fire their pistols. I lost one grey Knight. I also lost two from the other squad to failed saves.

 

Turn 4 - All doughnuts from the PAGK squad. This turn I used the BC and the mini Purg squad to reduce his noise marines to 1 knowing that he was now fully ensnared by the bait that was my PAGK squad and was far away enough from obj A that if my PAGK's were to fall, my BC still had a shot to pick off his remaining two Beserkers. That's pretty much what happened.

 

He assaulted my PAGK's and wiped them all out before I even got an attack. He rolled 6 hits with his HQ and 5 wounds that ignored saves and then hit my lone justicar with 3 wounds from his berserkers of which I was able to save against 2.

 

Over the next two turns as we rolled for it to go 6, My BC toasted his two remaining berserkers, his HQ killed my BC which resulted in an epic face palm when he found out that the BC only had one wound, and my Mini Purg finished off his last noise marine and solidified the win as I had the only scoring unit left on the board and though we rolled for a turn 7, he was unable to get in range to do anything with his HQ at that point.

 

All in all it was a pretty good 2nd game. Our 1st was AoBR where we completely mangled the rules.

 

I'm interested to hear what you think.

[jeffersonian000]

Sounds like a great game, and your battle report reads very well! I'm glad my list gave you a good starting point for your own force. As to wargear and terminators, only weapons and wargear marked with an * are available to models in terminator armour (as listed on pg 16 of the C:DH). Unfortunately, Targeters do not have an * next to them and therefore are not available to a Brother Captain or Grand Master. Not that it mattered, of course!

 

SJ

[Justicar Valius]

good for you i think your future bat reps will be great. i am so glad that he has a chao lord HQ for your sake. the less double lash the better :o

[fuzbuckle]

What's double lash? (forgive my ignorance if I should know)

[number6]

"Double lash" is a reference to Lash of Submission, a psyker power most often employed on a pair of Chaos HQ Daemon Princes. It's useless against vehicles, but it allows the Chaos player to move your infantry units around during his own turn. Has lots of tactical utility if there are targets available. Mechanizing your army is the best way to deny it.

[WarriorFish]

Well done on your win, it sounded like an exciting game!

 

I'll throw my hat in for the Sisters too, they make excellent Troop choices (and Fast attack, Seraphim are cool) for any army, but GK in particular benefit most from the additional bodies. IG are also good additions thanks to their new codex, but require more fine tuning to get right where Sisters are simpler to fit in.

 

So I think you should consider them when your army starts to grow for higher points values :P

[Grand Master Caloth]

to be honest, the terminators are what started me in GK! The look of the models did it all, and the fact that they are as mean and solid as they are was just icing on the cake! They are definately worth looking at geting at least one unit of

[fuzbuckle]

I am now 4 and 0 with my 500pts of GK goodness though I exchanged the psycannon bolts for sacred incense. I came close to losing one game but the luck of the dice was with me on turn 5. Also, I'm 99% sure I'm going to go the LR route. The more I play the more that I think I'll like the added mobility of the LR's.