Long Fangs or Tanks?

[BlackJackal]

Well, I've been playing SW for all of 2 weeks and have already noticed that I need some heavy firepower to back up my Grey Hunters and Bloodclaws,

 

So basically my question is, with the new codex so close do you think it would be better to take Long Fang packs or some armored might in the form of Vindicators, Predators and Land Raiders?

 

The rest of my army is mounted in rhinos/razorbacks and has alot of bikers in it.

 

Thanks in advance BlackJackal

[Night Runner]

Mech armies have recieved a boost in 5th ed, which makes them really worth the points, but since our LF are now cheaper they offer us a viable option for heavy cover fire. I want to try them both, so I'll invest in a LF pack and two tanks (predators, LR and vind) and see how they perform before I invest more money in them.

[Quillen]

I use to say Tanks only. Long Fangs cost way too much and anyone with a bit of sence smoked them fast. Now they are cheaper and you canh ave 6 and even throw a WGPL in with them I believe. Can;t remember been a week since I looked at the new book. So maybe they are worth it now.

[AcidBurn]

go with long fangs brother wolf, their ability to split fire is very, very usefull.

 

i normally go with a longfang squad with missile launchers and another with las cannons it causes such a mess. and when you stick a wolf guard with cyclone missile launcher in there they realy cause some havock

[Florida Gator]

Go with long fangs brother. Less expensive generally for the amount of fire power you get, pluss less vulnerable to virtually everything except blast templates. Plus, a vehicle is probably one of the first things your opponent wants to blow up, while a bunch of infantry, is going to take a bunch of shots to kill. For instance, a lucky shot from an ork rokkit launcha can take out a good chunk of points from a tank really quickly, while its only going to kill one long fang (if he can roll the 5+ to hit you anyway), because of course the ork version of a missile launcher doesnt use a blast. Oh and one more thing... You might be tempted to use alot of vehicles against tau, as to get you there faster, but all those railguns will quickly do more damage than theyre worth. So, (and i don't even know if you ever play against tau), Long fangs would be better in this case as long as theyre in range, while your wolf scouts and skyclaws tear up some panzees to keep fire off of your long fangs (because they are one of the first units he is gonna want to shoot down, so he can keep those guys with the railguns alive).

 

Just my opinion. I probably went way above and beyond, but i gave you some examples of which i have learned after playing against my tau and ork friends.

[Grey Mage]

*blinks*

 

Tanks... Long Fangs...

 

you missed one.

 

DREADNAUGHTS!

 

Seriously, throw a decent weapon on them- like AC, LC, or TLAC and a heavy flamer... advance with your troops and just shoot away. Extra Armor is a MUST on these guys. Keepem mobile. Then, when things get into CC you can wade right in with the 'Hunters.

 

Of course if your playing a Mounted list, wich it appears you are, then frankly a landraider and some Long Fangs with a Razorback would probly be more in theme- perhaps some Landspeeders.

[Aeddon]

I was thinking about using landspeeders myself. Anyone had much success with these?

[And a Barrel of Ale]

well on the topic of heavy support.

 

i have been thinking about running a Whirlwind, Predator Anihilator w' Laz sponsons and 6 Long Fangs with 3 Missle and 2 Plazma Cannons.

would that be a good allround heavy support block to deal with almost everything that they have to throw @ me. ( I have had alot of joy with a whirlwind,

its done really well for me in nearly every game, and i thought i would try something new with the pred and long fangs, as i used to run a Vindi and LRC)

 

or like you said Florida Gator, would it be better to swap out the Pred for another replication of the Long Fangs pack i have.

casue in my local group, there are alot of MEQ's and IG, not rly much else, and in that there is alot of AV14 from the Lee Man Russes and Landraiders.

while i plan to have about 4 meltaguns in rhino's im not rly sure that its going to be enough to crack that AV14 without having something like the Pred

(i love missle launchers on the Longfangs, casue it means that they are cheap as chips and with the missles they can hit and hurt anything,

and even take chunks out of hordes)

[Jaarl Stormfang]

I'm not sure giving long fangs any of the expensive weapons is really the way to go. Although all the weapon options got cheaper, they were crap in the first place, and 10 points (?) off a plasma cannon is still not a great deal. A 20pt power armour model with a heavy bolter however, is. A 25pts model with a ML, less so, but still a good deal. Your las and plas models are still the cost of a terminator, and as such juicy targets.

 

I guess one or two in a squad wouldn't hurt, but I really think the strength of the new long fangs is really, really cheap firepower, that will avoid return fire mostly, and takes very few points away from the rest of your army.

[Valhalla]

Jackal, it really depends on how your army is set up and you're playing style. I play a mechanized force so I lean in favor for tanks and with the current codex the Long Fangs are prohibitively expensive. As it's been mentioned vehicles became a lot tougher in 5th edition, that said the changes to defensive weaponary changed the standard Las/HB pred most marine players ran.

 

With the new rules I plan to run this basic setup at 1500 points

 

Vindicator

Land Raider

Long Fangs (2 LC, 2 ML)

Dreadnought (LC, HF)

Rhino

Razorback (LC or HB)

[Baluc]

I' ve been playing around with this idea

 

2 long fangs and leader

2 lascannons

 

its comes in at 95 points. Its relatively cheap, can target and kill 2 tanks a turn, and if they get hit its going to have to be something long range and low ap, which keeps my V.dred and rhinos safe from another weapon... I think one of the strengths of the new book over the normal SM codex is that I can have numerous relativly small units that pack a hell of a punch in their field. I'm probably going to take 6 Skyclaws with fist and Mark. Its pretty smallish but if only 3 survive to combat thats still a lot of attacks. Any where from 12 s4 and 3 s8 to, 7 s4 and 3 s8, that's still almost as much as a full strength tac squad.

[Levitas]

I was thinking about using landspeeders myself. Anyone had much success with these?

 

2 or 3 tyhpoons in the right list are just awesome. Just leave them at the back and pop transports for the assault units to take care of whats inside. Plus if you fire frag (str4) then it counts defensive and you can fire the other weapon 2. Which if its a heavy bolter will really tear through horde.

 

In comparison to Long fangs you get more mobility, but AV10. But with a 48" range you just keep them back and snipe side armor. 6 krak missles from a squadron will even put a dent in a nobz mob or obliterate most transports in one salvo. Or deal out 6 frag templates to horde. Their speed allows you to adapt better to the field as with more static fangs.

 

Of course, you could take speeders and fangs..?

[Brother Grius]

I can confirm this for you Wolves who are still waiting. The new Long Fangs can still split fire and may take up to FIVE heavy weapons.

[Locmac]

I'm going to be running to long fangs and a vindicator, but that's just because I like the large blast template :tu:

[Kenmichi]

I'm keeping my eye on this thread because I'm sort of in the same spot. My goal has been to run a Wolf army with a fair amount of troops and some nice diversity in the troops (Wolf Guards in TDA, GHs, BCs, and Scouts) supported by as much armor as I can cram in. I'm definitely taking 2 Dreads when possible with at least 1 per game, all GHs are in Rhinos, and the WGs in TDA are mounted up in a Land Raider. Which might carry my Wolf Lord as well, but that's besides the point.

 

So what remains are my fast attack spots and heavy support. If WGs can take a dedicated transport (Land Raider) then I'll have 3 spots to fill which I was thinking I'd fill with 2 Predators and a Whirlwind. Of course that's if WG can take raiders as a dedicated transport, if not then I'll have to take 1 Predator, 1 Land Raider, and 1 Whirlwind. But with the way I've played my past armies I've fielded as many Assault Squads as I could and I've never been a big fan of Bikes or Land Speeders. Which of these two act as better support vehicles? I would assume speeders as they can fly and take long range weapons while bikes are excellent assault/blitz units because of their speed, higher toughness, and weapon options.

 

Any input and suggestions from experience armored Space Marine players would be very appreciated!

[OnlyInDeath]

Well, my classic setup for my Mech list was something like this: for a 1750 list, LRC (w/ bc's + WP), vindi, WW, vendread w/ TLLC/ML, 2 rhinos w/ GH's in them, scouts. Versitile enough to deal with anything from mech heavy to swarm armies, it was able to deal with them all. All 3 heavy choices can deal with swarm armies, the vindi, LRC and vendread can deal with tanks (as can any of the infantry squads).

 

The key to your heavy support is always going to be how it plays off the rest of your army. I personally like to have an "all comers" list, because it's not going to try to tilt the game in my favor by customizing a list to squash my opponent. I like challenges. And by balancing the TYPE and FORM of heavy support you bring to the table, you can really amplify how well it does for ya.

 

Right now it sounds like you have a great base for a mech army, so I would say keep rocking that. My suggestion would be to make the turrets on your RB's TLLC's, and snag yourself a vindi and a whirlwind. The templates are great utility for both vehicles. The WW ability to negate cover and pin your opponents is niiiiiiice, and within 24" of things, the vindi is incredibly potent, blasting troops and vehicles (up to AP 16? yes please) with ease. And by placing the TLLC turrets on, say a pair of razorbacks, you are giving yourself the more accurate support that you could probably use.

[the great beaver]

I'm starting to think that perhaps space wolves should go with more fast attack options then heavy weapons since we really need to take out certain key enemy models quickly or our close assault army will be overwhelmed...

[wookie2533]

I'm keeping my eye on this thread because I'm sort of in the same spot. My goal has been to run a Wolf army with a fair amount of troops and some nice diversity in the troops (Wolf Guards in TDA, GHs, BCs, and Scouts) supported by as much armor as I can cram in. I'm definitely taking 2 Dreads when possible with at least 1 per game, all GHs are in Rhinos, and the WGs in TDA are mounted up in a Land Raider. Which might carry my Wolf Lord as well, but that's besides the point.

 

So what remains are my fast attack spots and heavy support. If WGs can take a dedicated transport (Land Raider) then I'll have 3 spots to fill which I was thinking I'd fill with 2 Predators and a Whirlwind. Of course that's if WG can take raiders as a dedicated transport, if not then I'll have to take 1 Predator, 1 Land Raider, and 1 Whirlwind. But with the way I've played my past armies I've fielded as many Assault Squads as I could and I've never been a big fan of Bikes or Land Speeders. Which of these two act as better support vehicles? I would assume speeders as they can fly and take long range weapons while bikes are excellent assault/blitz units because of their speed, higher toughness, and weapon options.

 

Any input and suggestions from experience armored Space Marine players would be very appreciated!

 

I think you might be over your elite choices. WG, Scouts and 2 dreads. aren't we only allowed 3 choices from elites?

[lokeiSHP]

With the new costs, I think both armor and LF's are a viable choice. I personally include at least one LR (and if you don't have any I would recommend getting a LRC for BC goodness) to augment my forward assault abilities. Dakka preds are another good option, though the cheaper LF's may outshine them due to shot volume (seriously, 15 HB rounds a turn will be amazing against most horde armies). I would tend to use Long Fangs for soft and medium targets (HB's for infantry, ML's as your crossover). I'm not convinced that Plasma Cannon's would be worth it and Lascannons are only slightly better than ML's on armor and don't give any major anti infantry advantage, so I would avoid them. I don't like the range on Multi-meltas, but I could see deploying them in more of a area denail role or Drop Podding with Logan Grimnar for relentless. Vindicators are another solid option, though they draw a great deal of fire.

 

PS. Wolf Scouts using OBEL are amazing at getting rid of opposing heavy armor units as well allowing your heavy support to take on softer targets. Because of this I shy away from things like triple las Preds.

[Kenmichi]

I'm keeping my eye on this thread because I'm sort of in the same spot. My goal has been to run a Wolf army with a fair amount of troops and some nice diversity in the troops (Wolf Guards in TDA, GHs, BCs, and Scouts) supported by as much armor as I can cram in. I'm definitely taking 2 Dreads when possible with at least 1 per game, all GHs are in Rhinos, and the WGs in TDA are mounted up in a Land Raider. Which might carry my Wolf Lord as well, but that's besides the point.

 

So what remains are my fast attack spots and heavy support. If WGs can take a dedicated transport (Land Raider) then I'll have 3 spots to fill which I was thinking I'd fill with 2 Predators and a Whirlwind. Of course that's if WG can take raiders as a dedicated transport, if not then I'll have to take 1 Predator, 1 Land Raider, and 1 Whirlwind. But with the way I've played my past armies I've fielded as many Assault Squads as I could and I've never been a big fan of Bikes or Land Speeders. Which of these two act as better support vehicles? I would assume speeders as they can fly and take long range weapons while bikes are excellent assault/blitz units because of their speed, higher toughness, and weapon options.

 

Any input and suggestions from experience armored Space Marine players would be very appreciated!

 

I think you might be over your elite choices. WG, Scouts and 2 dreads. aren't we only allowed 3 choices from elites?

 

2 Dreads for versatility, 1 Dread for every game. IE: 1xWG, 1xScout, 1xDread or 1xWG, 2xDread.

[DragonPup]

I was thinking of taking a Long Fang squad with a drop pod. Using the drop pod assault rules it can arrive turn one and use it's 2" disembark move and D6" run to get into position and open up turn two. The idea is that while the landing may be somewhat random, it ensures the enemy can not deploy out of their LOS.

[Hfran Morkai]

I'm thinking both, my LF squad with two multi-meltas a lascannon and missile launcher will sit on home objectives, deterring nasty assault vehicles whilst my raider is going to rush forward and try to eliminate armoiur

[Kaan]

Long Fangs or Tanks?

 

Why not a bit of both? Take a group of Long Fangs in a Razorback. Equip the razor back with the twin linked lascannons. The Longfangs can split their weaponry (For a 6 man squad (Leader + 5 long fangs) you can take a mix of heavy bolters and "anti tank" weapons.

 

If you are facing a "tank heavy" army, when you suffer casualties, you'll likely want to remove the heavy bolter troopers first (least expensive) thus leaving your "anti tank" armed Long Fangs ready for more firing the next turn. Visa versa if you are facing a horde army with little in the way of heavy armor or high toughness (a lascannon isn't as efficient at killing Ork boys or Genestealers compared to a heavy bolter).

 

The twin linked lascannon razorback is "relatively" expensive, but it is yet another target that your opponent must consider taking out with his heavy support. Plus, being twin linked, it gives that feeling that if you desparately need to hit something with a lascannon, you can do it (3+ with a reroll).

[Greyhunter77]

The LF ability to split fire is a must ( I know several chapters who would love this ability). I have two small LF packs that I may join up. i too am on th look out for a tank or two to beef up my heavy support, but haven't yet decide whih way to go.

[Spacefrisian]

I have been thinking of using Logan to give the Longfangs Relentless. Give them a razorback tour them around, jump out and start shooting, jumpbqack in and move to a save place to repeat it again the next round.