Fetterkey Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 This post comprises the second of several threads that will eventually comprise a complete Tactica for the 5th Edition Space Marine Codex. As each segment of the full Tactica is quite long, it has been separated into individual threads for ease of view and discussion. The first thread in the series, covering the Special Rules that Space Marine armies benefit from, can be found here. This thread covers the generic (non-special character) HQs available to a Space Marine army; special characters will be covered in a later post, as this is already quite long and there are many details and intricacies that make classifying special characters quite difficult. 2.1.1: Captain Space Marine Captains are the generic "fighting heroes" of the Space Marine army. Sporting an improved statline and a wide selection of options, including the new and lethal relic blade, Captains are extremely versatile and can be configured in many different ways. In general, a Captain should be configured for assault; while he has the opportunity to take some special ranged weapons, relying on ranged firepower eschews the Captain's main strength-- his lethal close combat stats. With a mighty WS of 6, a Captain will hit many enemy characters and elite troops on a 3+, to say nothing of the rank and file. Many have flocked to the new and powerful relic blade as the primary weapon for their Captains; this is a solid, if expensive, choice, as it is usually just as good at killing the enemy as a power fist, yet strikes at Initiative, meaning that the Captain will be able to slay some of his enemies before they can mount an attack. Further, a Captain may now take two weapons, regardless of whether these weapons are two-handed or one-handed. This means that a Captain may be equipped with both a relic blade and a storm bolter or combi-weapon if so desired, allowing for a degree of ranged potency as well as combat ability. Captains may also take auxiliary grenade launchers, which provide a decent ranged attack even if both hands are used for melee weapons (or a weapon and a shield); however, these are very expensive for what they do, and are generally not worth their points. A Captain may further trade one of his weapons for a storm shield; this essentially upgrades his ordinary 4+ Invulnerable save to a 3+ Invulnerable save, providing an added degree of protection against particularly powerful attacks. As characters, especially lone characters, can often be vulnerable to stealth power fists and the like, this may be a good choice if you intend on using your Captain on his own. A Captain may also take artificer armor to upgrade his standard armor save, thus protecting him from simple masses of attacks. Though the upgrade is relatively cheap, it again depends on whether you want to use your Captain in a unit or whether you'll be fielding him on his own. Captains who join units, especially Command Squads, probably do not need this armor; if you plan on fighting enemy units by yourself and anticipate taking a high number of hits, it may be a worthy upgrade. Note that a Captain may also take Terminator armor; however, this is generally not a good deal, unless you are strongly compelled to take a chainfist. The Terminator armor's invulnerable save is redundant, as the Captain already has an Iron Halo, and the armor also prevents him from overrunning enemies in hand-to-hand combat. Other wargear options include melta bombs, which are fairly standard, hellfire rounds, which significantly increase the firepower of a basic bolter but are rather expensive for what they do, and digital weapons. These (in)famous relics featured heavily in First and Second edition, but fell by the wayside in recent years; now, they're back with a vengeance. The primary use for this upgrade is the "ghetto lightning claws;" a Captain equipped with a bolt pistol, power sword, and digital weapons costs 5 points less than one with two lightning claws, benefits from a ranged attack, and still gets the same number of attacks in close combat, as well as a reroll to wound. This offers similar performance to a pair of lightning claws, looks better, costs less, and lets you shoot. If you take a plasma pistol, this upgrade can also ensure that you maintain powerful close combat capabilities. However, this is not the only use for digital weapons; if you find yourself with points to spare, digital weapons can be a characterful and useful upgrade for any combat Captain. Further, a Captain may select an alternate movement method in the form of a jump pack or bike. Critically, a Captain mounted on a bike allows you to field Bike (but not Scout Bike) squads of at least five models as Troops. This option allows you to field a fluffy and effective mounted force, frees up useful Fast Attack slots, and makes your Bikes scoring-- a lethal prospect on the battlefield! One special note is that hellfire rounds work with a bike's twin-linked bolter; as this weapon is both twin-linked and Relentless, it will fire both more often and more accurately than a standard bolter, hence justifying the cost of the special rounds. 2.1.2: Command Squad Last but not least, taking a Captain allows you to take a Command Squad. This squad, though few in number, is comprised of elite Marines who have a wide range of wargear options; any member of the squad besides the Apothecary has access to special weapons, as well as a wide range of melee weapons! One of the Veterans in the squad may be upgraded to a Company Champion, who has an improved statline and gets some special wargear at a reduced cost; further, each squad comes with an Apothecary, who provides the squad and any characters that join it with the Feel No Pain ability, making them much tougher. Another Marine can take the Company Standard, which provi des morale and combat resolution benefits. Though "shooty" Command Squads can be effective, it is generally best to make the most of the Veteran's improved Attacks and using them as an assault retinue. One way to make this sort of unit even more effective is to take bikes; a biker Command Squad, though extremely expensive, can often assault as early as turn two, is quite resilient to enemy attacks (especially when some of the Veterans are equipped with storm shields), and can get to wherever it needs to be very quickly. Captains provide a very versatile character who may be equipped with several interesting options. However, all this comes at a cost; Captains are rather expensive. You should weigh the benefits of the Captain over taking a lesser hero, and choose accordingly. If, however, you plan on taking a biker army, a Captain is almost mandatory. 2.2.1: Chapter Master Chapter Masters are an interesting case. They cost 25 points more than a Captain and possess the same stats and options, Command Squads aside. However, a Chapter Master benefits from the ability to call down an orbital strike. This attack is the most powerful that can be achieved in a normal game, hits anywhere on the table, and doesn't require line of sight; however, it only goes off once and scatters widely if you don't roll a hit. In general, the orbital bombardment is well worth the 25 points that it takes to upgrade a Captain to a Chapter Master; even if it only hits a little more than a third of the time, this attack is so lethal that it generally makes up for it. It is possible to annihilate entire squads of enemy troops with the orbital bombardment, as well as devastate enemy vehicles. If firing at a vehicle, remember that Ordnance Barrage attacks like the Orbital Bombardment always count as hitting the target's side armor and roll 2d6 (pick highest) for armor penetration. I would say that the Orbital Bombardment is so powerful that it is almost a mandatory upgrade; if you do not intend to field Bikes or Command Squads, and can find 25 points to upgrade your Captain to a Chapter Master, you will not be disappointed. Other than that, the Chapter Master is identical to a Captain, and should be outfitted in the same manner. 2.2.2: Honor Guard Taking a Chapter Master "unlocks" Honor Guard instead of a Command Squad. These elite fighters benefit from an improved statline, all wear artificer armor, and possess a bolter, bolt pistol, and power weapon, making them versatile and effective combatants. Further, one of the Honor Guard is the Chapter Champion, who has extra WS and Attacks, benefits from additional options, and has special rules that make him particularly lethal against enemy characters. Rather than taking a Company Banner, Honor Guard may take the Chapter Banner, which gives all members of the Guard and any character that joins them an additional attack as well as providing the benefits of the lesser standard. The disadvantage is that all this comes at a cost; Honor Guard are extraordinarily expensive, and each additional member of the Guard costs almost as much as an Assault Terminator. Though Honor Guard are indeed mighty, they generally don't stack up to Assault Terminators, which can make them an inefficient choice. These characterful retinue members are probably best left at home unless you have points to spare; though they are extremely effective in close combat, they are few in number and have no Invulnerable saves to protect them from power weapons, plasma fire, and the like. Assault Terminators, on the other hand, are just as effective in combat, if not more so, and are quite well-protected, especially given the new rules for storm shields. If you do take Honor Guard, I would suggest taking the Chapter Banner; not only does this upgrade provide for incredibly modelling opportunities, it significantly increases the lethality of the unit. 2.3: Librarian Librarians provide the only psychic defense in the Space Marine army proper, and carry potent force weapons that can kill enemy characters instantly. However, their statlines have been reduced since the "glory days" of 4th edition; though they are still powerful combatants, Librarians possess nowhere near the fighting prowess that they once did. This is made up for by their access to a wide range of extremely useful psychic powers, of which the Librarian can pick two. The standouts among these powers are Null Zone, which forces all enemy units in a wide radius to re-roll successful invulnerable saves, Gate of Infinity, which allows the Librarian to teleport himself and his squad to a new position on the battlefield, and Vortex of Doom, which allows the Librarian to launch an extraordinarily lethal psychic shooting attack. In general, I would recommend taking Gate of Infinity, as it provides excellent utility, and either Null Zone or Vortex of Doom depending on what you expect to fight. Against Dæmons, Orks, or other forces that generally have a large number of Invulnerable saves, Null Zone is golden; however, against enemies without Invulnerable saves, it provides no functionality whatsoever. Vortex of Doom, on the other hand, is an extremely powerful ranged attack, but counts as a Heavy weapon, forcing you to stand still, and is quite risky if miscast. The other powers can also be useful, of course, but these three are the most unique and most powerful that the Codex has to offer. In terms of wargear, the Librarian is somewhat limited; as the force weapon and psychic hood are essentially chosen for you and cannot be replaced, your options are limited to the standard variety of ranged weapons, the two alternate movement systems, and Terminator armor. Unlike the Captain, though, Terminator armor can be a great choice for a Librarian, as it makes him Relentless (allowing him to use Vortex of Doom on the move) and gives him access to a storm shield, greatly increasing his survivability by providing an Invulnerable save. The other upgrade that is of note is Epistolary status; though this is extremely expensive, it allows a Librarian to cast two psychic powers in the same turn. In general, I am skeptical about this upgrade's effectiveness, given its cost, but it can provide significant added utility in the right situations. Only battlefield experience will let you know whether these situations arise enough for you that the Epistolary upgrade will be worth its points. In summary, Librarians are great utility characters; though their combat ability has been diminished in this Codex, their psychic powers and defenses open up a great deal of interesting tactical choices. They are most effective as "support heroes;" running Librarians around on their own is unwise, but they can greatly enhance the prowess of a friendly squad. 2.4: Chaplain Chaplains, like Librarians, have been significantly debuffed in terms of combat stats since 4th Edition. Unlike Librarians, however, the Chaplains are more reliant on their combat stats. Therefore, they have become comparatively worse with the changes in editions. That is not to say that Chaplains are useless; they can significantly enhance the prowess of assault units. If you do choose to use the Chaplain with an assault unit, make sure that that unit is as strong as possible; as the Chaplain grants Fearless, you will be unable to use Combat Tactics to escape from undesirable combats, and can therefore be tied up rather easily, expensive character and all. Chaplains do have one other, perhaps surprising, use-- since they grant Fearless to the unit they join, they can be used to bolster a unit that must hold a position at all costs, be it a Troops unit on a crucial objective or a Tactical Squad that will be called upon to hold the center of your formation. However, using a Chaplain merely for Fearless is not particularly efficient. Therefore, you should not buy a Chaplain merely to support a key squad's morale, but rather do so if you have a Chaplain for other reasons and the opportunity presents itself. As Chaplain Cassius is always better than a generic Chaplain and costs less, the only reason to take a standard Chaplain is if you wish him to join a unit equipped with jump packs or bikes, with whom Cassius cannot keep up. In general, the other wargear options aren't particularly great, though digital weapons are always a good buy if you have points to spare, especially as the Chaplain already comes with the other components of the "ghetto lightning claws" for free. One special note is that a tooled-up biker Command Squad joined by a Chaplain on a bike is one of the most lethal units that a Space Marine army can field in close assault. However, as such a unit is incredibly expensive and about as "all your eggs in one basket" as you can get, it is likely the sort of thing one should save for Apocalypse games. Chaplains are decent support characters who are best fielded in support of an assault unit. However, as Chaplain Cassius is so obviously underpriced, the standard Chaplain option is not particularly effective unless you plan on joining an Assault or Bike squad and purchasing one of the alternate movement systems. 2.4.1: Master of the Forge Masters of the Forge are new additions to the Space Marines for 5th edition, and take the place of the Techmarine HQ that could be taken under the 4th edition Codex's trait system. Unlike most characters, Masters of the Forge are not particularly good in hand-to-hand combat, with the melee stats of a mere Veteran Sergeant, additional wound aside. The servo-harness, of course, adds a significant element of lethality, and the built-in artificer armor makes the Master hard to kill with normal attacks, but an MotF nonetheless struggles to keep up with other fighting heroes, especially with no method of taking an Invulnerable save. Instead, the Master of the Forge is perhaps the most suited to the support role of any Space Marine character. There are two main ways to field this character; either as a long-range anti-tank sniper with a conversion beamer, or as a vehicle repairman. Either role can be enhanced by the addition of a bike, though this is by no means mandatory. Further, the Master of the Forge provides you with the ability to take Dreadnoughts, Venerable Dreadnoughts, and Ironclad Dreadnoughts as Heavy Support as well as Elites. This option can really help if you want to take Dreadnoughts but are having trouble fitting them into your force organization, especially as the Elites slot is highly prized. Masters of the Forge are excellent support characters who are best used far from the action, either taking lethal long-range shots with their Conversion Beamers or running around in the backfield repairing damaged vehicles. They also make your force organization more flexible. However, they are not very good melee combatants, and should not be fielded as such. 2.4.2: Servitors Taking Masters of the Forge or Techmarines allows you to take Servitors as well. Unfortunately, this option is not particularly good; Servitors are too expensive for what they do, and the firepower they can project is generally limited. As they also die incredibly easily and count as a separate unit, Servitors are not worth the KP you risk by fielding them. The one case in which Servitors can be effective is when taken solely to help a Techmarine or Master of the Forge repair vehicles; however, even then, they are a marginal choice at best. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178745-tactica-astartes-hq/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Largely agree with you mate and enjoyed the read. Thing I took most objection to was the Honour analysis; they are not worse than Assault Terminators, but different. Let me explain. Honour Guard get an attack each on the charge per model with the Chapter Banner, which in itself is good, but the banner has something else that makes the unit worthwhile. Characters attached to the squad (normally a Master) get the extra attack, while the Champion also has an extra attack On their own, Honour Guard models vs Assault Terminators are a worse buy. Add in a Chapter Banner, a Champion with Relic blade and a Master with Relic Blade and Storm Shield and you have a unit much more poweful on the charge than an equivilent unit of Assault Terminators with Lightning Claws, all for a mere 25pts more (see my config below) for the Honour Guard over the Assault Terminators (remember you said yourself that the Orbital Bombardment is worth it's points on a Master). The difference is survivability; Assault Terminators have an invulnerable save, but you can put those shooting attacks on the Storm Shield Master, or engage the troublesome power weapons with the Master in base contact, which saves the Honour Guard. And of course transport options do open up for Honour Guard, as they are in power armour. Its all a matter of choice, the Honour Guard are 25pts more expensive (for 5 Honour Guard, a Relic Blade Champion and a Chapter Banner) than 5 Assault Terminators, 50pts if you don't want a Master over a Captain as well. Some people like the offensive capabilities of Honour Guard (like me) instead of the durability of the Assault Terminators, but some don't. Not trying to sound critical, I just love Honour Guard! :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178745-tactica-astartes-hq/#findComment-2115594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 To prevent us making two separate guides, you can also cover the most point effective HQ choices in our book: Cassius - He's a T6 Chaplain with FNP and a 4+ invul. Comes with a MC Combi-flamer Boltgun with Hellfire rounds for 25 more points than a regular Chaplain. Enough said.Pedro Kantor - Makes Sternguard count as scoring, amazing +1 attack aura and comes with Orbital Bombardment. Vulkan He'stan - Amazing universal rule that makes Thunderhammers MC, flamer and melta weapons twin-linked. Has a 2+/3++ save, a Heavy Flamer and a MC Relic Blade w/ Digital Weapons. Lysander - W4, Eternal Warrior, 2+/3++ with a S10 Hammer that's +1 on the VDC. Has Bolster Defenses and makes all bolter weapons in his unit re-roll hits. Amazing with Sternguard in a Drop Pod. Shrike - Makes the entire army Fleet (via Combat tactics). Makes the unit he's in Infiltrated. Has a pair of MC Lightning Claws with Rending. Captain - You don't have Orbital Bombardment, but you're the same statline as a Chapter Master, which automatically means you're a beast in combat. You can take a Command squad on all bikes. Librarian - Psychic defense and offense for 100 points. You can take Termie armor + SS for 40 more points.. something Tigerius haven't figured out how to do yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178745-tactica-astartes-hq/#findComment-2115631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetterkey Posted September 18, 2009 Author Share Posted September 18, 2009 Don't worry, HERO. Special characters are coming up soon, though I think I'm slightly less enthused about them than you are. As for Honor Guard, they can indeed be better than a unit of Assault Terminators with lightning claws; however, I don't find the lightning claw Terminators particularly compelling. Instead, the TH/SS Assault Terminators are quite a compelling choice due to their incredible survivability. The Honor Guard unit with a Storm Shield Master does have fairly good survivability against normal attacks or even light power weapons or AP 1/2, but it's not much good against concentrated plasma fire, Demolisher cannons, melta/las, and other truly heavy weapons, as it's quite risky to put Instant Death hits on your expensive Master, and many of these attacks can easily hit multiple models. TH/SS Termies, on the other hand, are resilient to almost any weapon in the game (phase swords aside!), and have a more powerful melee attack to boot. Though I like the fluff and modelling opportunities inherent in the Honor Guard, I simply don't think they're a particularly efficient option. Your mileage may vary, but I can't in good faith recommend the unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178745-tactica-astartes-hq/#findComment-2115813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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