Iron Hands counts as

[Hfran Morkai]

Well I am a man of fluff and have thought about this a lot recently. I have no problem with people using the wolf codex provided that they can come up with fluff and make it fit, rather than just jumping in for rules. If you're immersed in the fluff then brilliant.

[Hergrmir]

mate, again i have to stress how much i would not let you play IH as SW. as far as im concerned, youre just another power gamer just trying to make an excuse to use the most updated codex to make your army strongest.

 

if you want to use SW rules, USE SPACE WOLVES!. seriously, the models are awesome, if you want to convert to being a son of russ, do so, have an ale, and sit at the fire and tell boastful stories. dont hide behind your old figures. become a SW. just dont make us look bad by pretending anyone else is nearly as awesome!!!=D

 

Well, that's just dumb. I'm going to say that everyone who plays Space Wolves is just another power game just trying to make an excuse to use the most updated codex to make your army strongest, and on top of that they're too uncreative to come up with their barbarian/raider themed Space Marine chapter. I mean, what the heck? The OP already said he was just going to use stuff that fits Iron Hands fluff, not Lone Wolves or bloody Thunderwolf Cavalry. Or you can go buy and paint him/her some of these supposedly awesome miniatures yourself.

 

I mean, you don't have to play against people or lists you don't want to, but throwing around accusations of only changing codexes for powergaming purposes is getting more than a little silly when there's no foundation for that.

 

OR you're conceding that the Space Wolf codex IS stronger than the C:SM book.

[Ulrickthegrey]

mate, again i have to stress how much i would not let you play IH as SW. as far as im concerned, youre just another power gamer just trying to make an excuse to use the most updated codex to make your army strongest.

 

if you want to use SW rules, USE SPACE WOLVES!. seriously, the models are awesome, if you want to convert to being a son of russ, do so, have an ale, and sit at the fire and tell boastful stories. dont hide behind your old figures. become a SW. just dont make us look bad by pretending anyone else is nearly as awesome!!!=D

 

Well, that's just dumb. I'm going to say that everyone who plays Space Wolves is just another power game just trying to make an excuse to use the most updated codex to make your army strongest, and on top of that they're too uncreative to come up with their barbarian/raider themed Space Marine chapter. I mean, what the heck? The OP already said he was just going to use stuff that fits Iron Hands fluff, not Lone Wolves or bloody Thunderwolf Cavalry. Or you can go buy and paint him/her some of these supposedly awesome miniatures yourself.

 

I mean, you don't have to play against people or lists you don't want to, but throwing around accusations of only changing codexes for powergaming purposes is getting more than a little silly when there's no foundation for that.

 

OR you're conceding that the Space Wolf codex IS stronger than the C:SM book.

 

 

Well Like I said, this just keeps going around in a circle. As previously stated, Dont play against them. That simple.

 

As for powergaming, who knows, all I have to say is that I have waited for this codex. Happy now that I have it, and will use it. Everything else is secondary to me right now. Also I dont want to have high blood presure. The great thing about this game is, no one is pointing a gun to your head to make you play the people you dont want to. So stop arguing, geez.

[cherrboh]

mate, again i have to stress how much i would not let you play IH as SW. as far as im concerned, youre just another power gamer just trying to make an excuse to use the most updated codex to make your army strongest.

 

if you want to use SW rules, USE SPACE WOLVES!. seriously, the models are awesome, if you want to convert to being a son of russ, do so, have an ale, and sit at the fire and tell boastful stories. dont hide behind your old figures. become a SW. just dont make us look bad by pretending anyone else is nearly as awesome!!!=D

 

Well, that's just dumb. I'm going to say that everyone who plays Space Wolves is just another power game just trying to make an excuse to use the most updated codex to make your army strongest, and on top of that they're too uncreative to come up with their barbarian/raider themed Space Marine chapter. I mean, what the heck? The OP already said he was just going to use stuff that fits Iron Hands fluff, not Lone Wolves or bloody Thunderwolf Cavalry. Or you can go buy and paint him/her some of these supposedly awesome miniatures yourself.

 

I mean, you don't have to play against people or lists you don't want to, but throwing around accusations of only changing codexes for powergaming purposes is getting more than a little silly when there's no foundation for that.

 

OR you're conceding that the Space Wolf codex IS stronger than the C:SM book.

 

 

why would i care if one codex is better than another? i dont see how SW players that have always played SW are powergamers, but i dont agree with people swapping now because its the in thing. i appreciate the fact that SW are an attractive force, and thus its going to bring in new players when the new dex comes out, and i welcome all of those guys and girls with open arms.

 

i dont agree with players using the SW codex to try and "fit in" with a completely different army.

 

you dont need to be white knighting man. theres a lot of people that would agree with me.

[lunchb0x]

Honestly it doesnt matter.

 

Its a conversion army, as long as the equipment and the models are easily distinguishable no one should or will care.

 

Anyone at a tourny, that says you cant use X army as Y army simply because of its paint job is just being a tight :devil:

[Skaldnir]

I don't like the idea but thats just me. Anyways you are not likely gonna play against me so my opinion doesn't really matter. All in all it's your money and models, but you should realize most of us here at the fang are wolves for the fluff first and the rules last. That being said i wouldn't expect a warm welcome from any long fangs if you insist on doing this. Short version:whatever floats your boat, however be prepared for the consequences.

[Ulrickthegrey]

Honestly it doesnt matter.

 

Its a conversion army, as long as the equipment and the models are easily distinguishable no one should or will care.

 

Anyone at a tourny, that says you cant use X army as Y army simply because of its paint job is just being a tight :devil:

 

 

Just an observation, but alot of players in my area that are tourney players are that way. ::shrugs:: you must be blessed.

 

But as Skaldnir said...I wouldn't expect everyone to be pleased by the idea.

[Quillen]

They are not a Smurf list. And that is the big problem with the new Codex. When we had the Divergents it worked out cause you could make just about any of the Chapter(former legions) you wanted and it worked. The problemw as alot of people too just 3 of the choices cause they were over powered. And so some people thought it was broke and instead of keeping the game interesting they decided to dumb it down.

 

 

I have done what he is saying and won local tournies near my home. A bunch and no one minded. I think one big loser at life had a problem and the guy running the event pointed out it was original and fit my fluff. As my Chapter was not a smurf group.

 

Only a tight wad would care. Play him and beat him. If you can't learn what you did wrong. If you can't, there is always water colors for you to figure paint with. Good grief.

 

It's you army do what you want.

[lunchb0x]

ITS JUST PAINT.

 

By about 90% of this threads poster logic, if your Wolves are painted Grey, then you cant use them...because its not BLUEGREY.

 

B)

[Ominous Anonymous]

mate, again i have to stress how much i would not let you play IH as SW. as far as im concerned, youre just another power gamer just trying to make an excuse to use the most updated codex to make your army strongest.

 

if you want to use SW rules, USE SPACE WOLVES!. seriously, the models are awesome, if you want to convert to being a son of russ, do so, have an ale, and sit at the fire and tell boastful stories. dont hide behind your old figures. become a SW. just dont make us look bad by pretending anyone else is nearly as awesome!!!=D

 

Space Wolves can field a Dreadnought as an HQ (albeit a 'special character' one), Terminator-armored sergeants, and Techmarines that come with a free Thunder Hammer and Servitors that don't have Mind Lock. From a pure fluff perspective there's a lot of reasons to use the new codex to represent the Iron Hands.

[Aranan]

I have a 2000pts space marine army painted up as iron hands and i was wondering would you guys think it a stretch to play them as space wolves. Heres my reasoning, the iron hands have better ties than most chapter to the mechanius so they would have access to more specialized weaponry translating into the extra special weapons on the tactical squads (grey hunters), second wolf guard in terminator armour to represent sergants, third CCW and bolt pistol could be represented by the fact that the bionics can absorb additional recoil. Finally the fact that both chapters use a unique system of organization.

 

So what do you think?

It sounds great to me. In fact, I might have to do the same!

 

All you grognards who are savagely guarding your viking furry book and insisting that people have to use ugly models with awful hair and be covered in pelts are silly.

 

[edit] Actually, a Red Corsairs list with Space Wolf rules would be pretty great. Traitor wolves that have gone to Chaos to get a better color scheme and get rid of those furs! ;)

[Johan Spess]

why would i care if one codex is better than another? i dont see how SW players that have always played SW are powergamers, but i dont agree with people swapping now because its the in thing. i appreciate the fact that SW are an attractive force, and thus its going to bring in new players when the new dex comes out, and i welcome all of those guys and girls with open arms.

 

i dont agree with players using the SW codex to try and "fit in" with a completely different army.

 

you dont need to be white knighting man. theres a lot of people that would agree with me.

What. Perhaps someone doesn't like the Space Wolves color scheme. Or topknots. Imagine, a person who doesn't like topknots, it's crazy I know. This eliminates like 95% of the new Space Wolf lineup. Or giant impossiblewolves. The concept of the new Space Wolves, combined with their extremely versatile and arguably broken rules is very attractive to another player. Perhaps they'd like to play them, but don't want topknots or bluegrey or wolf tails/heads on everything. Perhaps they like the color yellow a LOT, so make Imperial Fist counts-as SW, or they like robot arms and faces a lot, so they make Iron Hands counts-as. Perhaps someone does not give one, maybe two damns about the background fluff for viking wolfshirts, and just want to play the game with more fun rules.

 

You don't even need to explain it. If someone asks, just say "I like the design of Iron Hands a lot, but their rules are generic and boring. I like the rules for Space Wolves a lot, but they're a bunch of furries and topknots. So I combined the two!" See? An explanation in less than 15 seconds!

[Rod Hull]

I think the new codex lends itself well to representing counts-as armies for a number of chapters. Using it for Iron Hands sounds very good to me, the units and the fluff are a good match for each other.

 

mate, again i have to stress how much i would not let you play IH as SW. as far as im concerned, youre just another power gamer just trying to make an excuse to use the most updated codex to make your army strongest.

 

if you want to use SW rules, USE SPACE WOLVES!. seriously, the models are awesome, if you want to convert to being a son of russ, do so, have an ale, and sit at the fire and tell boastful stories. dont hide behind your old figures. become a SW. just dont make us look bad by pretending anyone else is nearly as awesome!!!=D

This is a rather repugnant, and hypocritical, opinion. You wouldn't let him (who the hell are you to let him do anything ? I know this goes against the bizarre SW player entitlement complex, but you don't get a say) use game legal rules to field an army in a different colour with a different logo because he would be 'power gaming', while you yourself would use those rules and be perfectly fine because yours are painted another colour ?

Using your own choice of colours is an established and officially encouraged method for playing the game. If you don't like it then I'm sorry but you'll just have to live with it because despite what you think, it's a perfectly valid way of playing.

 

Sir Stompalot, if someone refuses to play you because you call your men Iron Hands instead of Space Wolves then they have done you a favour because they probably don't have the social skills or maturity to make a pleasant opponent. And if internet people tell you that you can't use them (because their mum made them a plastic-toy-man police badge or something) then just remind yourself that they're probably wearing a t-shirt with a wolf howling at the moon, roleplay a malformed version of a character from a board game, and they almost certainly smell of wee.

[Het Masteen]

Sir Stompalot,

A pack of proud, surly Wolves are probably the wrong people to ask, unless you're specifically looking to play someone on this forum. It's more important that your opponent is happy with the idea, but as you may have guessed, using a "counts as" army in a tournament is not a good idea. Most gamers in clubs are happy to bend the rules as long as you're attempting WYSIWYG and you're not planning on doing it for more than a week or two.

[Hfran Morkai]

Space wolves are furries? No wonder I was drawn to it. As I've said if you think the fluff for your army is better suited to stuff from the wolf dex then jump in but if you try playing ultramarines or a really strict codex chapter then I won't be too happy but it is your choice so do what you will. The glory will still go to the wolves!

[clanfield]

space wolves =broken rules gee that didnt take long

 

there your figures paint them any color you like use which ever codex you like they belong to you hopefully toruney organisers will agree and in frendly games it dont matter so go have fun

 

on the subject of codex rules the smurf, ork ,demon,wolf dexs are a new generation so if your compareing them to older books they may look more powerful

iv only seen the new dex for a few minutes myself and i dont agree with some of the bits but just like the darkangels or eldar this what weve got to play with so enjoy

 

im not sure what you wanted to achive as a potential ironhand comeing to the wolf section and asking stuff like this,

 

from what iv read there are 2 camps of thought ether your agreeing on counts as or your not and argueing about it is dum as hell its a game enjoy it your way

i have played wolves scince rt days through all the rules and changes i enjoyed myself emensly they are my army iv played tourneys iv played frendly style i just like my boys and im no power gamer funny realy when you look at my win record but hey ho

 

enjoy

[Rod Hull]

Sir Stompalot,

A pack of proud, surly Wolves are probably the wrong people to ask, unless you're specifically looking to play someone on this forum. It's more important that your opponent is happy with the idea, but as you may have guessed, using a "counts as" army in a tournament is not a good idea. Most gamers in clubs are happy to bend the rules as long as you're attempting WYSIWYG and you're not planning on doing it for more than a week or two.

"Proud, surly Wolves" ? Petulent, hypocritical people who identify too closely with their plastic mens more like.

It is not bending the rules. It is perfectly acceptable in tournaments. It is not a matter of WYSIWYG.

It is exactly the same army but using a different colour and identical types of models with minor cosmetic differences, replacing pelts and tails with bionics.

 

To try and frame it as a matter of breaking or bending rules is at best disingenuous.

[Het Masteen]

"Proud, surly Wolves" ? Petulent, hypocritical people who identify too closely with their plastic mens more like.

It is not bending the rules. It is perfectly acceptable in tournaments. It is not a matter of WYSIWYG.

It is exactly the same army but using a different colour and identical types of models with minor cosmetic differences, replacing pelts and tails with bionics.

 

To try and frame it as a matter of breaking or bending rules is at best disingenuous.

 

Rod Hull, my comment about "Proud, surly Wolves" was meant to be vaguely humurous (failed there obviously). There was no offence meant and I apologise for any misunderstanding. I was about to offer an example where I knew of an Eldar player using his models as an Ork Nob Biker army. Which wasn't WYSIWYG.

 

Sir Stompalot,

If you took offense from me implying that you're bending the rules as Rod Hull believes I am, I apologise.

[Ulrickthegrey]

You know what gets me so mad...well it would pointless for me to say it. I just know If I ever meet one of this 'Count as' Players, and they are not running wolves...or a new completely made up chapter, but a DW player using WW or Iron hands using the Wolf DEx. Well I will tell them were they can shove their army. Its most likely not the best Idea to get in my face and argue it. Lets just say I have a very short temper due to some events in my life. So all you count as players, have fun, but if I see ya in my store, I know plenty of people who will tell you were you can park it.

 

Chow...

[Ominous Anonymous]

Now then, what would an Iron Hands list using the new codex look like? Probably Bjorn at higher points, maybe a few dreads to accompany him. Terminator sergeants probably aren't a must at lower points levels, but are a fluffy option. I don't think I've ever seen a list that made good use out of Techmarines or Iron Priests, respectively, and since Iron Priests can't buff cover saves for a piece of terrain. I can only see them providing a fire base with Servitors, except that this takes up a precious elite slot for your Dreads. :D

 

Thunderwolf Cavalry are definitely out outside of a clever conversion, though I could see Fenrisian wolves as combat servitors without power fists. Thoughts?

 

EDIT:

 

You know what gets me so mad...well it would pointless for me to say it. I just know If I ever meet one of this 'Count as' Players, and they are not running wolves...or a new completely made up chapter, but a DW player using WW or Iron hands using the Wolf DEx. Well I will tell them were they can shove their army. Its most likely not the best Idea to get in my face and argue it. Lets just say I have a very short temper due to some events in my life. So all you count as players, have fun, but if I see ya in my store, I know plenty of people who will tell you were you can park it.

 

Chow...

 

Seriously? Seriously? You don't own the rights to Space Wolves, but you'll readily get off your high wolfhorse and tell people what they can and cannot paint their minis? Honestly man if that's how you would act to strangers just because they didn't use what you wanted I'd turn down an offer to play with you on principle alone, even if I had a perfectly fluffy SW army.

 

All you players who are trying to shoo away people like the OP only shoot yourself in the foot. New blood like that may not bring an appreciation of Space Wolf fluff into discussions, but I'm sure they might have a thing or two to say about experiences with a certain unit and it's rules that could benefit everyone on this subforum.

[Hergrmir]

You know what gets me so mad...well it would pointless for me to say it. I just know If I ever meet one of this 'Count as' Players, and they are not running wolves...or a new completely made up chapter, but a DW player using WW or Iron hands using the Wolf DEx. Well I will tell them were they can shove their army. Its most likely not the best Idea to get in my face and argue it. Lets just say I have a very short temper due to some events in my life. So all you count as players, have fun, but if I see ya in my store, I know plenty of people who will tell you were you can park it.

 

Chow...

 

But... WHY? This is what I'm just not getting about this anti-fun 'we're all so entitled to wander around telling people what to paint their armies' camp. I mean, I'm sorry you've got bad stuff going on in your life, I really am. And you don't have to like it. But to tell some wandering player to go shove it?

 

That's just bad for your store's business. It's one thing if the player who shows up is disagreeable, smelly, loud, obnoxious, unfriendly, or whatever else, but if it's just some guy who thinks that counts-as (which is, as has been mentioned above, a legitimate explanation pushed by GW) actually makes sense while you don't, but is otherwise a fun person to game with, why shun him/her?

 

I mean, it's not just Cherroh, lots of people don't like it for some reason. I'm sorry that I chose that one specific post earlier to go off of, it was just the latest in a long line that just leaves me scratching my head and wondering when 40k players got so hidebound by colour schemes.

 

Now then, what would an Iron Hands list using the new codex look like? Probably Bjorn at higher points, maybe a few dreads to accompany him. Terminator sergeants probably aren't a must at lower points levels, but are a fluffy option. I don't think I've ever seen a list that made good use out of Techmarines or Iron Priests, respectively, and since Iron Priests can't buff cover saves for a piece of terrain. I can only see them providing a fire base with Servitors, except that this takes up a precious elite slot for your Dreads. :(

 

Thunderwolf Cavalry are definitely out outside of a clever conversion, though I could see Fenrisian wolves as combat servitors without power fists. Thoughts?

 

Well, in my books Thunderwolf Cavalry are going to need a damned clever conversion to make it into my SW army. I mean, people are welcome to play them if they want them, I just despise the concept. I mean, what? Wolf cavalry? Next GW's going to say that Space Wolf drop pods are shaped like viking longboats. :D

[Ominous Anonymous]

Well, in my books Thunderwolf Cavalry are going to need a damned clever conversion to make it into my SW army. I mean, people are welcome to play them if they want them, I just despise the concept. I mean, what? Wolf cavalry? Next GW's going to say that Space Wolf drop pods are shaped like viking longboats. :P

 

Haha, well, fair point. I don't know about longboats, but the most clever conversion I ever saw for drop pods were these urban war-themed sewer entrances. The guy made them big enough so nobody would complain about LOS (though he always brought a drop pod along in case anyone wanted to check that they would and could hit it). It was justified by saying that the enemy was coming out from underground Skaven-style, and if you blew up the 'sewer' you'd cut off that entrance.

 

Not exactly SW-related but I always thought it was a cool idea. :P

[Hergrmir]

Well, in my books Thunderwolf Cavalry are going to need a damned clever conversion to make it into my SW army. I mean, people are welcome to play them if they want them, I just despise the concept. I mean, what? Wolf cavalry? Next GW's going to say that Space Wolf drop pods are shaped like viking longboats. :P

 

Haha, well, fair point. I don't know about longboats, but the most clever conversion I ever saw for drop pods were these urban war-themed sewer entrances. The guy made them big enough so nobody would complain about LOS (though he always brought a drop pod along in case anyone wanted to check that they would and could hit it). It was justified by saying that the enemy was coming out from underground Skaven-style, and if you blew up the 'entrance' you'd cut off that entrance.

 

Not exactly SW-related but I always thought it was a cool idea. :P

 

Well, I think that's WAY cooler than Wolf-riding Space Marines. But then, I'm just some guy who doesn't get to tell everyone else what's cool. Unlike some of the posters here, who think they get a say.

[Ominous Anonymous]

Well, I think that's WAY cooler than Wolf-riding Space Marines. But then, I'm just some guy who doesn't get to tell everyone else what's cool. Unlike some of the posters here, who think they get a say.

 

Not to incite things a bit further than they already are, but it was an idea I was going to replicate if I ever used the new codex to represent Alpha Legion. :P

[Johan Spess]

You know what gets me so mad...well it would pointless for me to say it. I just know If I ever meet one of this 'Count as' Players, and they are not running wolves...or a new completely made up chapter, but a DW player using WW or Iron hands using the Wolf DEx. Well I will tell them were they can shove their army. Its most likely not the best Idea to get in my face and argue it. Lets just say I have a very short temper due to some events in my life. So all you count as players, have fun, but if I see ya in my store, I know plenty of people who will tell you were you can park it.

 

Chow...

they see me trollin'

 

they hatin'

 

tryin to catch me ridin' furry