Tatical Question Podig Army vs Mech Maries

[Autarch-Andrew]

i personal think rhino are better but whats an easier kill point a 12 all around open topped vehicle that cant move or a mobile smoke poping 11 10 10 vehicle B)

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

Rhinos for my money because they give you mobility throughout the game: not just a one-off DS.

[HERO]

A mix is always better than all drop or all rhinos.

[Autarch-Andrew]

A mix is always better than all drop or all rhinos.

 

i have to disagree with just my style of play i always run all mech never 50% drop 50% rhinos

[waaanial00]

It depends whats in the Drop Pod. Sternguard are the only unit which i would consider using either option. I almost never use drop pods for tactical marines as I have had bad experiences with them before.

 

Sternguard operate well in both transports, they just require different tactics.

 

Wan

[tahrikmili]

Drop pod for Sternguard, Dreadnoughts, Devastators. Rhinos for Vanguard, Tacticals, Assault Squads. IMO.

[Autarch-Andrew]

It depends whats in the Drop Pod. Sternguard are the only unit which i would consider using either option. I almost never use drop pods for tactical marines as I have had bad experiences with them before.

 

Sternguard operate well in both transports, they just require different tactics.

 

Wan

ya in my experience i hate drop tatical squads i always fail with them lets just see the advantages and disadvantages of a drop pod advantage:you can be anywere in the magic rapid fire range of a space marine anytime plus i heard drop pod vulkan is amazing plus drop down rear armour shots disadvantages after you drop you better hope you kill what you droped on because its ether going to run away or kill you in a second and after you drop you better hope your close to an objective because its not good to basicly footslogg the whole game after you get on freedom of movement once per game so im most cases i think rhinos are better

[Autarch-Andrew]

Drop pod for Sternguard, Dreadnoughts, Devastators. Rhinos for Vanguard, Tacticals, Assault Squads. IMO.

 

why drop pod for devestators thats like the stupidest idea ever deves should be deployed on a hill or in a commanding postion or in some cases in a rhino

[tahrikmili]

Drop pod for Sternguard, Dreadnoughts, Devastators. Rhinos for Vanguard, Tacticals, Assault Squads. IMO.

 

why drop pod for devestators thats like the stupidest idea ever deves should be deployed on a hill or in a commanding postion or in some cases in a rhino

 

Well, it's just an idea I REALLY want to try out.

 

Drop Pod a 10 Man Dev squad with 4ML, 4MM or 2MM 2 ML and Combat Squad them. Blast away. Chaos ensues while he has to deal with them you move in with every assault unit you have. Next turn: Carnage.

 

I love the idea of drop podding Devastator Squads. Everyone else may hate it, but 4 Heavy Weapons popping up where you want can only be good.

[DarkGuard]

Both armies will have their specific advantages and disadvantages.

 

 

An all Drop Pod force allows you to get half of your army pretty much anywhere on the board, where you want them to some extent. This includes bolters being within rapid fire range, meltas within half range and other nasty things. Remember however, that not everything will drop at the point you want due to scatter, although due to the Drop Pod rules you will only get a mishap if you scatter off table. Still a bad scatter can really mess up your plans. The second wave doesn't experience this problem much if you include locator beacons on your first wave, and if you use Scout Bikers with locator beacons you can help the first wave.

 

The first wave of Drop Pods is more likely to carry a psychological impact as well as a damage impact. An Ironclad turning up behind your opponent's prized Land Raider and reducing it to molten slag in one shot can hit him hard. Likewise his prize unit sitting in the open (though I can't see why they would be doing that), can be all but annihilated by rapid firing Sternguard. The second wave should then seek to consolidate on the damage done by the first wave.

 

However, due to the random nature of reserves, your army will be left to the whims of fate in future turns, with units coming down at irregularly, or maybe all at once if you are lucky. Furthermore, units in the first wave will have to be durable, as you can bet that they will have a lot of firepower turned against them if possible. The idea of dropping in safer locations may not seem as dramatic as first, but can lead to a coordinated assault between the first wave and the second wave, the first wave jumping out of the cover they took shelter in and the second wave dropping in amongst the enemy. Furthermore, to help with bad reserve rolls you can always take Tigurius, for a considerable investment of points.

 

But the main disadvantage of a Drop Pod army is lack of mobility. The Drop Pod provides a false sense of mobility. Yes you can get your unit to anywhere on the table in record breaking time, but from there, what next? Once the enemies in that area are destroyed you have to footslog to another area, often taking fire from the enemy along the way. This can be offset by dropping into the middle of the board, where you should be able to engage more of the enemy in a shorter time. Furthermore, a wise opponent may set up their army in Reserve, meaning that your first wave has nothing to shoot at and that your opponent can bring on his forces anywhere on his table edge to combat your dropped forces.

 

IMO, to make a Drop Pod army worthwhile, the first wave must be composed of units that can survive well or create a lot of destruction. These tend to be Dreadnoughts and Sternguard, as has already been pointed out. The inclusion of Pedro in a Drop Pod list can help if you are using Sternguard, giving them something to do after they have shot up a unit and providing they have survived.

 

 

A mech army, however, doesn't experience the same problems of a Drop Pod army. For one, while your transports are working, you have mobility. Maybe not as much as say an Eldar or Dark Eldar force, but a lot more mobility than a footsloggin force. You also have immunity to small weapons fire while in your transports, and with a good deployment, 12" move and smoke your Rhinos and the like can often survive to reach turn 2, allowing you to get your forces into the enemy's half and laying waste to his units there or capturing objectives. Remember also that Rhinos can repair themselves if they are rendered immobile. Although there is a slim possiblity of them doing so, I have successfully repaired two Rhinos in my last two games, and more beforehand.

 

However, a mech force suffers from vulnerability to enemy fire. The chances are you are using Rhinos and Razorbacks, both of which only have a front armour of 11. If you end up going second, due to any reasons, your weak transport vehicles are vulnerable, provided your opponent has long ranged, high strength weapons. Some good rolls for him could result in quite a few units in your army being stranded in your deployment zone. Perhaps something even worse is being stranded in the middle of the board, especially if there is little cover and a few units pointing guns at your disembarked units. This is where the Drop Pod shines. Provided it doesn't scatter, your opponent cannot prevent you from getting your units where you want them, normally into his deployment zone.

 

 

I've probably missed some things here, and not without reason. I've only used Drop Pods for a few games, and have been using a mech army for a long time now. IMO the mobility and flexibility of a mech army outshines a Drop Pod army, which just leaves too much to chance. However, there is no denying the effectiveness of Drop Pods at times, and one or two Pods with a Dreadnought in each, or Sternguard, can prove irritating to your opponent while your mech elements advance with less resistance. So a 50:50 army could work if used the right way, although if you use them like this I wouldn't use more than 3 Drop Pods. However, for now I will be focussing on my mech army, more than anything I can't fit a single Drop Pod into my case, while I can easily fit 4-5 Rhino chassis' if need be (I use the Tactical Squad bag, if it don't fit in one case it's left at home).

 

 

Sorry for the length of the post, but this is my views on both armies. Feel free to read, skim over, criticise etc.

 

EDIT: the concept of easier Kill Points can be used, but not extensively. Both armies will give up easier Kill Points, you just need to find a way to get more Kill Points that is more effective for you.

[Giga]

Drop pod armies are, as far as I'm concerned, more of a *fun* thing, then they're truly tactically useful.

 

The only thing one needs to do to completely counter a drop-pod army is to put all his stuff in reserves. If he does that, the drop pod player will be forced to come down on the first turn, and then get shot/assaulted in 2nd turn when the opponent's army arrives. No matter how it goes, the drop pod player lays half his army on an empty table, and then gets them shot in the following turn.

 

Also, against mechanized armies that have everything in transports, a drop pod army aren't going to be able to take advantage of its biggest anti-infantry punch (rapid fire). They'll come down, blow up a transport or two, and then they'll get rapid fired and assaulted by the opponent's entire army in the following turn.

 

Another big problem of the drop pod armies is that they don't have reliable anti-tank. The only reliable melta you can get on first turn this way is sternguard with combimeltas/meltaguns, and that requires you to have a good scatter (so you wouldn't scatter out of 6" melta range) + it costs quite a bit, considering it's a one-shot wonder. Even if that one melta shot you get off with your dreadnought proves to be lucky and kills, say, a land raider (you'd need to be HELLUVA lucky for a single shot to do something like that), even that isn't really of much worry to your opponent. You see, the purpose of that land raider was to bring his terminators/assault specialists/badass HQ close to the enemy, and charge them. If you drop pod near him, he doesn't really need that transport any more. He can charge you in the next turn, anyway.

[ShinyRhino]

why drop pod for devestators thats like the stupidest idea ever deves should be deployed on a hill or in a commanding postion or in some cases in a rhino

 

So long as they are dropped on the first turn, they work. They work especially well with Multimelta Devvies.

You see, Devs with the shorter-range weapons tend to have to sit around and do nothing for a turn or two til the opponent gets juicy vehicles in range of the Multimeltas' 24".

If you drop pod the squad into the center of the board, they lose one turn of multimelta firing. but, the bolter-armed Marines cans till shoot that turn. They were going to be hanging out at the back of the baord for a turn at least anyways, so you don't have to worry about it.

What you gain is four multimeltas in the center of the board (or some other commanding position), threatening EVERYTHING on Turn Two. Sure, they might draw a boatload of fire and attacks, but that's what they're for. They're either a fire magnet to move your assault units up, or a powerhouse anti-tank unit dominating the field.

[tahrikmili]

why drop pod for devestators thats like the stupidest idea ever deves should be deployed on a hill or in a commanding postion or in some cases in a rhino

 

So long as they are dropped on the first turn, they work. They work especially well with Multimelta Devvies.

You see, Devs with the shorter-range weapons tend to have to sit around and do nothing for a turn or two til the opponent gets juicy vehicles in range of the Multimeltas' 24".

If you drop pod the squad into the center of the board, they lose one turn of multimelta firing. but, the bolter-armed Marines cans till shoot that turn. They were going to be hanging out at the back of the baord for a turn at least anyways, so you don't have to worry about it.

What you gain is four multimeltas in the center of the board (or some other commanding position), threatening EVERYTHING on Turn Two. Sure, they might draw a boatload of fire and attacks, but that's what they're for. They're either a fire magnet to move your assault units up, or a powerhouse anti-tank unit dominating the field.

 

EXACTLY!

 

However I will do this with either 4 MLs or 2MLs 2 MMs combat squadded because that way they are more versatile - can be used against infantry, soft targets, hard armor and all ranges. I think drop podding a 10 man devastator squad on Turn 1 is a great tactic..

 

I never tried it however :o

[HERO]

Drop pod for Sternguard, Dreadnoughts, Devastators. Rhinos for Vanguard, Tacticals, Assault Squads. IMO.

 

I'm gonna have to go with that ^

[DerekLee688]

What would be the problem in deepstriking MM/HF Land Speeders within a drop pod army for your anti-armor/whatever needs?

 

I really wouldn't wan't to run a 50/50 or 100% drop pod army. More like DP 25% Mech 75% to Iron/dread pod(s) and/or an objective grabbing Tac squad.

[Autarch-Andrew]

i still think the only unit that desreves a pod is a ironclad not deves because your enemy is gonna see it an then kill it

[Tranc]

If you drop pod the squad into the center of the board, they lose one turn of multimelta firing. but, the bolter-armed Marines cans till shoot that turn. They were going to be hanging out at the back of the baord for a turn at least anyways, so you don't have to worry about it.

What you gain is four multimeltas in the center of the board (or some other commanding position), threatening EVERYTHING on Turn Two. Sure, they might draw a boatload of fire and attacks, but that's what they're for. They're either a fire magnet to move your assault units up, or a powerhouse anti-tank unit dominating the field.

 

If the bolter-armed Marines can shoot, it means you're within 12 inches of the enemy. I don't have much gaming experience, but couldn't your opponet just assault them with something marginally killy to clear them off the board, or use an inexpensive tactical squad and tie those big guns up for the rest of the game?

[waaanial00]

What would be the problem in deepstriking MM/HF Land Speeders within a drop pod army for your anti-armor/whatever needs?

 

Aside from the fact that it is not a legal choice for codex marines, I believe that Space Wolves of the moment can do this however I suspect those days are numbered with a new codex. Though of course I have not been caught up in the hysteria of new codex fever, after being in the game for 2 1/2 years and this being my second stab at it (started in 2nd ed) I care less and less for the build up of new codexes.

 

Wan

[DarkGuard]

What would be the problem in deepstriking MM/HF Land Speeders within a drop pod army for your anti-armor/whatever needs?

 

Aside from the fact that it is not a legal choice for codex marines, I believe that Space Wolves of the moment can do this however I suspect those days are numbered with a new codex.

Wan

 

This is a legal choice for Codex Marines. There are options to outfit your Land Speeders with both a multi-melta and a heavy flamer, and in their profile, under special rules it has the Deep Strike special rule. Provided you have the Fast Attack slots available (which you should have in a Drop Pod army) there is no problem with this.

[waaanial00]

Was referring specifically to the "in a drop pod" remark. The tactic is sound but the use of a drop pod, which seems to be what is being suggested, is illegal. Deep striking MM Landspeeders is a tactic I have used to great effect, so was not denying that.

 

Wan

[DarkGuard]

I believe that when DerekLee688 said 'within a Drop Pod army' he meant within not in the sense of within a Drop Pod, but within the army as a whole. So Land Speeders Deep Striking down next to Drop Pods. I could be wrong though in my interpretation.

[Cydrone]

Yeah that's what he meant, otherwise the rest of the sentence makes no sense at all. =)

 

As for the LS, I don't see any problems beyond the normal that it would face.

[Autarch-Andrew]

i really think the rhino is better if your going to play the fritz 40k turn 5 game but in missions like hard'boyz pods would be better it all depeands on the person :unsure:

[Grey Mage]

Drop pod for Sternguard, Dreadnoughts, Devastators. Rhinos for Vanguard, Tacticals, Assault Squads. IMO.

 

why drop pod for devestators thats like the stupidest idea ever deves should be deployed on a hill or in a commanding postion or in some cases in a rhino

Or not....

 

DP onto an objective in a building, supported by your DPing tactical style squad and run up into a good firing position- be in perfect LOS for firing the next turn with a good cover save.

 

You pay 35pts for the flexability of being able to this OR deploy them normally AND have more DPs come in turn 1 than otherwise.

 

I think thats far from a stupid idea. Infact I intend to do it with my shiny new long fangs in their affordable squads.

[Autarch-Andrew]

usally unless its random terrain i dont think Devs(or long fangs) should have any trouble finding a Vantage Point so i still think spending 35 points for an 12 12 12 open topped vehicle is useless unless your droping meltas from the sky to kill a tank with the new wolves coming out an Logan giving one unit Relentless the Devs Drop pod tatic could would droping 4 multi-melta into range of 12 get 2d6 armour pen on a LR so ya in any case besides Random terrain or they magicly get relentless the drop pod devs is stupid and useless Answer Solved