Decoy Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 If it's as cut and dry as you're making it out to be, then why is there such a discussion on it, and not just here, but on Warseer as well? Just because you think there shouldn't be an argument doesn't think there won't be. Some people require ironclad rules (myself, not really one of them), and others are more carefree. Ultimately, it's a matter that needs revision, only because there will always be issues between gamers otherwise, methinks. Those that want to play an all-TDA army, and those that don't think it should be allowed. That's why the FAQ is a necessity. I'm playing devil's advocate, personally. I think an All-TDA army is quite probable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2119630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 We have a saying over here "Hy had een plaat foar syn kop" "He has a plate before his head". It means that he doesn't want to understand how something works or is even if its spelled out for that one, i think this also applies to all those who still say Wolfguard aren't troops etc etc. Even if GW has stated they are. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2119631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 We have a saying over here "Hy had een plaat foar syn kop" "He has a plate before his head". It means that he doesn't want to understand how something works or is even if its spelled out for that one, i think this also applies to all those who still say Wolfguard aren't troops etc etc. Even if GW has stated they are. well put. but i think that we all should have a firm grasp of our new book. which we get in TWO WEEKS!! ZWEI WOCHE!!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2119638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Along that line, us of the Russik descent also have a saying. "Доверя́й, но проверя́й". "Trust, but verify". You can believe that something is meant to be a way, but one must always endeavor to verify that something in every way possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2119644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I've already been going through the codex myself, (nice to have a preview version in the nearest store) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2119752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I've already been going through the codex myself, (nice to have a preview version in the nearest store) ive seen it quite a bit and will see it again this week, which i can check on this as well as the other one with the GH weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2119765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Without it being expressed clearly, it will be ambiguous. Sorry... but this sentence wins the Thread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2119812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Hull Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Toaster, you've not said anything that hasn't been said already, and that doesn't change the argument. Read through the thread, please. It's a moronic argument based on misunderstanding (deliberate or otherwise) of a clear statement. Anyone who believes the rule is ambiguous is either an idiot or unable to comprehend basic English. If it's as cut and dry as you're making it out to be, then why is there such a discussion on it, and not just here, but on Warseer as well? Because both message boards are famously full of people with borderline personality disorders and/or subnormal IQs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2119889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 It is stupidly obvious what GW's intentions are here. If you're the kind of person who is going to have a fit if I lay a Grimguard army on the table (why people are doing this, I'm still not sure), then I'm going to pack up my army and know never to play you again. I figure it's a good litmus test for determining if someone is a person you want to play the game against or not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2119904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Firstly, to Rod Hull: Are you wandering into the Fang, calling ... almost everyone involved in this thread either... "An idiot or unable to comprehend basic English"... and not expecting to get called out on it? Furthermore, you go on to state that those in the BC are "famously full of people with borderline personality disorders and/or subnormal IQs". ... Yeah. I won't speak for the Mods or the rest of the Brothers in the Fang, but nothing will stop an argument amongst wolves faster than broadbrush insulting them all. And as for you, Wispy. For a newbie, you have pluck. I'll grant you that. However, the first impression you DON'T want to make is wandering into a reasonably intelligent, if stalled, discussion, and backing up the "Stupid" statement that Rod seems to have laid down. Insulting a whole forum? Takes some balls. Can't promise you'll walk away with 'em, though. QuickEdit: So... quick question, Wispy. If I were to have a fit if you lay a "Grimguard" (I have no clue what this is) army on the table, I obviously don't want to play you. Why would you be packing up your army? And moreover, why would it be some sort of loss to never play against you again, especially if you're so deadset and singleminded in your ways? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2119922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 If you're the kind of person who is going to have a fit if I lay a Grimguard army on the table (why people are doing this, I'm still not sure), then I'm going to pack up my army and know never to play you again. This is a good litmus test of the kind of person that I dont want o be playing against. I hope that you are not in my local gaming area. If you are, great cause I wil never play you no matter the army that I lay down on the table @Rod- Hey! thanks for banding all the Space Wolves together against you. thats awesome man! *********** mind you while I censor my own comment towards you. @Decoy- Grimguard=Logan Grimnar wolf guard army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2119933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 QuickEdit: So... quick question, Wispy. If I were to have a fit if you lay a "Grimguard" (I have no clue what this is) army on the table, I obviously don't want to play you. Why would you be packing up your army? And moreover, why would it be some sort of loss to never play against you again, especially if you're so deadset and singleminded in your ways? Grimguard - Wolfguard army led by Logan Grimnar. I would be packing up the army for the sole reason my opponent has a problem with it - after all, if he feels the whole army is illegal, then I think that would set a tone for match I wouldn't have much fun playing. I play with a very casual group, so I find this sort of hair splitting very frustrating. I am very excited about the new Wolf Codex, though, and that is why I find myself involved on forums in these sorts of discussion! I apologize for my frustration, as I think the wording of the rules, and the spirit they intend is pretty obvious in both the rules outline, how it lines up with similar text in the codex, and their outside advertisements and documentation. I don't personally intend to run a Wolf Guard Terminator army, but I think whoever wants to should be able to. It just kind of makes me mad, and I'm looking at this as if rule nazis are trying to ruin wolf player's fun over some very minor wording. That's not the case, and I apologize for coming here wit hthat perception. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2119962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 As a point, Wispy. I am of the mind that Wolfguard is quite a capable army list, and it was Gee-Dub's intent. I'm arguing on the Devil's Advocate side of things. Understand something. Not everyone is casual about their gaming. I, for one, am, generally. There are tournament players, however, who rely on rules interpretations such as this that can very well make or break a tournament army, or an army that they're planning. The reason we're so heated, and the reason we want an ironclad (Read: Games Workshop official) ruling is so those who want to play competitively are able to without every damned opponent questioning how they're doing something. Basically, we're going through this argument now, so we don't have to deal with it once Tourney play starts up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2119972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucku Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Well, I for one am waiting for the first smartass to tell me that I can't field Logan and use Troops slots to field Wolf Guard. "But it says 'count as Troops' and not 'can be taken as Troops'" or some equally dodgy BS. I'll say, "Counts as means they have all the attributes of Troops. Can Troops occupy a Troops FOC slot? Yes? Well then something that 'counts as Troops', and therefore has all the attributes of Troops in every way, can too. Tell me what a Troops choice can do that a 'counts as Troops' choice cannot, with regard to the SW Codex, and back it up with a citing. Git." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2119987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Wow. Lots of pluck today from all the whelps. I don't know what's given them their perceived attitudes, but I'm not entirely sure I'm fond of it. Hehehe. Maybe a little bit of barfighting, a lot of clubbing, and a few hefty bar tabs might iron 'em out? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2119994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Wow. Lots of pluck today from all the whelps. I don't know what's given them their perceived attitudes, but I'm not entirely sure I'm fond of it. Hehehe. Maybe a little bit of barfighting, a lot of clubbing, and a few hefty bar tabs might iron 'em out? Well, we are space wolves here yes? at least most of us. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2120005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Rod is a Consul, and I'm still not sure what Wispy is, though... (God I hope it's a "She". Odd name otherwise...) she seems to at least have the right Wolfy spirit, just slightly misguided. Reminds me of a certain Wolf Lord. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2120008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Well I remember when I was but a young battle leader with my first great company. I had a lot of working things out to do, and I am glad that we are doing it now. It just that some people dont have a great grasp on words. One of the things that gives me an advantage because I am so verbose. HOWEVER! i can see how tourney people would/could argue the point. but it would be a very weak arguement, and I feel that most people know that a "counts as" means "it becomes" and those that do know that and want to argue about it, just want to argue about something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2120016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Good call, Toaster. I think we all may have had that ONE time where that "ONE" player decided to call us on every rule we had, trying to find every way it was wrong and calling over a tournament judge every... like... five minutes. It's for those reasons we try to avoid the conflict, methinks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2120023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 The reason we're so heated, and the reason we want an ironclad (Read: Games Workshop official) ruling is so those who want to play competitively are able to without every damned opponent questioning how they're doing something. Basically, we're going through this argument now, so we don't have to deal with it once Tourney play starts up. 10 years of arguing about stormcaller and 6+ years of arguing what stats your weapons use will do that to you. I want to know that this update isnt just spawing another lump of of hell for me- because frankl I atleast knew all the arguments for our 3rd editon codex and could knock sense into people. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2120037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Good call, Toaster. I think we all may have had that ONE time where that "ONE" player decided to call us on every rule we had, trying to find every way it was wrong and calling over a tournament judge every... like... five minutes. It's for those reasons we try to avoid the conflict, methinks. when i was playing MTG i had to call one over once about that often, i was backed in and it seemed like timing was off. i dont want to do that again, and i never really have seen a point in doing that with 40k (cept for DE who people always play wrong in some way). It's just like the GH thread we are talking on. its not that hard to understand, people just need to read. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2120040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 10 years of arguing about stormcaller and 6+ years of arguing what stats your weapons use will do that to you. I want to know that this update isnt just spawing another lump of of hell for me- because frankl I atleast knew all the arguments for our 3rd editon codex and could knock sense into people. Quoted for truth, GM. Hell, I caught enough flak just for being 13th Company. "WHUT?! MOTW CHEEZ! CANT PLAY LOL NO NEW DEX! LAWL!" Seriously. I don't know how I didn't end up arrested for murder. EDIT: Aye, Toaster. There's always that ONE time, that ONE guy that you just hate to have to deal with. It -is- ultimately a matter of reading comprehension, but I'm willing to bend with it. A lot of people have substandard reading comp (although very few here in the Fang, I have to say), and it's up to those who understand the rules to encourage reasonable debate, intelligent thought, and an overall amenable discourse. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2120046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 10 years of arguing about stormcaller and 6+ years of arguing what stats your weapons use will do that to you. I want to know that this update isnt just spawing another lump of of hell for me- because frankl I atleast knew all the arguments for our 3rd editon codex and could knock sense into people. Quoted for truth, GM. Hell, I caught enough flak just for being 13th Company. "WHUT?! MOTW CHEEZ! CANT PLAY LOL NO NEW DEX! LAWL!" Seriously. I don't know how I didn't end up arrested for murder. EDIT: Aye, Toaster. There's always that ONE time, that ONE guy that you just hate to have to deal with. It -is- ultimately a matter of reading comprehension, but I'm willing to bend with it. A lot of people have substandard reading comp (although very few here in the Fang, I have to say), and it's up to those who understand the rules to encourage reasonable debate, intelligent thought, and an overall amenable discourse. why cant you play from the EOT codex? has it been ruled officially not usable? and yes, i am glad that there seems to be a relatively high reading comp here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2120050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 At this point, why would I want to, Toaster? I can make a 13th Company list with the current Wolf dex. And Eye of Terror supposedly went out of Tournament legality a year after it came out. Sure, I could use it for fun, but my local boys insist on me playing with the new Dex. Oh, how horrified they're gonna be. :evil Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2120067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I dont know how well the new dex will work for 13th thought. granted they have the lone wolf that fits in well with the fluff, and the MOTW that you can give your GHs, but it doesnt have all the feel of the EOT 13th. But with new dex you can do an all TDA 13th! just mix and match some chaos bits with the new WG TDA box and there you go! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/5/#findComment-2120077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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