Grey Mage Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 The EOT codex is completely invalidated... except MAYBE for the 13nth company as every other army list was considered done when their new book came out. This strongly implies that the 13nth co must now use C:SW... as the new book has come out. And dont even get me started on Spain, who apparently wouldnt allow ANY SW players in their tournaments for atleast the last year. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2120079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Trust me, Toaster. I've got seven different 13th Company army lists set up. This dex does it DAMN well. I recreated every element of my old 13th Company list, and had room for improvements and some wargear upgrades. Yeah. The 13th Company got upgraded. Hardcore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2120080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Rod is a Consul, and I'm still not sure what Wispy is, though... (God I hope it's a "She". Odd name otherwise...) she seems to at least have the right Wolfy spirit, just slightly misguided. Reminds me of a certain Wolf Lord. I'm sure being a she would leverage me a certain amount of good will after my rant, but unfortunately for me (or fortunately?), that is not the case. I'll just have to settle for having a strange handle for a guy and being plucky. don't mind me! I'll mellow at as soon as I get more new models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2120102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 No, no good will, I'd probably ask you where God got his Bitz Box for you, because you have certain pieces missing. But either way, welcome to the Fang. Just try not to kneejerk. Us Fangdwellers generally think almost everything through before posting, myself excluded, because I'm clinically insane. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2120110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Landrain Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 No, no good will, I'd probably ask you where God got his Bitz Box for you, because you have certain pieces missing. But either way, welcome to the Fang. Just try not to kneejerk. Us Fangdwellers generally think almost everything through before posting, myself excluded, because I'm clinically insane. Thats only because you haven't visited the Rock enough to spend some time in room 37... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2120161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Hull Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Firstly, to Rod Hull: Are you wandering into the Fang, calling ... almost everyone involved in this thread either... "An idiot or unable to comprehend basic English"... and not expecting to get called out on it? It's a simple statement in plain English. People misinterpreting it either cannot or will not read it properly. Wow. Lots of pluck today from all the whelps. I don't know what's given them their perceived attitudes, but I'm not entirely sure I'm fond of it. Hehehe. Maybe a little bit of barfighting, a lot of clubbing, and a few hefty bar tabs might iron 'em out? I'm sorry but who exactly do you think you are ? In every post you seem to talk down to people based on them not "being a wolf" whatever that means. Guess what, you aren't a wolf either. You are a person posting on an army specific sub-forum of a message board about little plastic men. On the internet. You are not better than any other poster here, your views are no more valid than anyone elses, and you are due no more respect than anyone else. Stop coming the high hat, it makes you sound like an absolute tool. Also, if you are going to insist on your sad little imaginary-space-man caste system, at least get it right. That's a Mentor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2120164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Wow... so comedic effect is entirely lost on you eh? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2120172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Danvers Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Ho-hum. Can we get this back on topic guys. We've had so many threads go down the pan recently cause people are determined to become offensive towards each other. Yes, it's written. Yes, you can get away saying what you like to people cause it's not face to face. Just stop getting all macho and aggressive about people's views. It doesn't make you look hard or clever, it just makes you another internet jerk that really shouldn't bother posting. Don't use this board to deal with your insecurities, no one wants to hear it. Tbh we shouldn't be needing a FAQ for the rule, but by the looks of it, we'll get one after all this discussion. There's no point in taking the 'it's plain English' view, as I'm sure we're all aware that there's ALWAYS going to be the players out there looking for something to give them an advantage over you. If it involves being an arse about wording, it doesn't matter, they'll still argue the toss unless a TO or GW tells them otherwise. Several years of playing CCGs taught me about those players - if you're in doubt, get an official answer. If you can't and they won't even entertain a discussion about it, it's not worth getting annoyed about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2120285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the great beaver Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 for myself and any tournaments run in my store I think "counts as" means "counts as in every respect" so they can be taken as a troop selection, can hold an objective and can do anything and be everything that a grey hunter pack or blood claw pack can do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2120311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Lone Wolves don't exist in 13th Company background though. Packs aren't kept seperate like Blood Claws to Grey Hunters to Long Fangs in the current SWs. They didn't even have those squads in the Legion days furthermore. I dunno, I know it's bad but I feel more comfortable using the CSM dex to represent 13th Co. than any modern Space Wolf book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2120418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceWolf13C Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 To Sama, I've been playing 13th co. since they were legal and i've looked at every codex thats come out since to see if anything could be used comparably. The up and coming space wolf codex is definitely the best representative for their rules. Now on topic, i suppose i can see how it is an ambiguous statement. Except that in the very same codex it has another unit that can be taken as troops. the wolves count as troops, but dont count as scoring. so if they didn't completely count as troops, including moving from a fast attack choice to a troops choice, why would they need to say that they don't count as scoring. they already don't count as scoring. They already don't count as troops. so if the wolves don't take up a troops option then why even have that statement. Now on to the wolf guard. they count as troops with logan grimnar. As with the wolves, they move to a troops choice. They can score. If they couldn't score it would have a statement like the wolves do. if they don't move from an elites to a troops choice it would say only that "if Logan Grimnar is taken then Wolf guard units count as scoring." if you want to argue that it should say "taken as" then read the first 7 sentences of this paragraph again. I think some people just can't see the forest through the trees and others cant see the trees through the forest. my opinion on this is completely unbiased because i have no interest in playing all terminators. all cavalry sounds much more interesting to me. hope i don't sound too snide but this has been really frustrating reading every post on this subject, when to me it appears obvious. i can see the arguements against all TDA but there are too many counters for those arguements. and if there is this much discussion it obviously needs a faq. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2120479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 hope i don't sound too snide but this has been really frustrating reading every post on this subject, when to me it appears obvious. When you reach the point at which it becomes frustrating, that's the time to quit reading the thread. This is the 137th post in this thread; if folks haven't gotten it figured out by now then they aren't going to. Regards, Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2120488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hergrmir Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Lone Wolves don't exist in 13th Company background though. Packs aren't kept seperate like Blood Claws to Grey Hunters to Long Fangs in the current SWs. They didn't even have those squads in the Legion days furthermore. I dunno, I know it's bad but I feel more comfortable using the CSM dex to represent 13th Co. than any modern Space Wolf book. Nothing in the slightest bit 'bad' about it, really. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2120550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 i would like to apologize for this post going off topic. @Valerian When you reach the point at which it becomes frustrating, that's the time to quit reading the thread. This is the 137th post in this thread; if folks haven't gotten it figured out by now then they aren't going to. AMEN! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2120552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 "Counts as troops" seems pretty clear to me. Phil Kelly wrote this Codex, Mat Ward wrote the Space Marine Codex, Jervis wrote the Dark Angels Codex. It's not like there's a proof reader that goes through the books making sure that they all use the same wording. If Belial leads a Dark Angel army, terminators may be taken as troops. For Logan, Wolf Guard count as troops. I forget what it is for bikes. Remember this is a game where grown men sit around and play with toy soldiers. I can't imagine that things can get so serious that we have to have every i dotted and every t crossed. It's not philosophy. The wording is perfectly understandable and completely unqualified. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2120562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 "Counts as troops" seems pretty clear to me. Phil Kelly wrote this Codex, Mat Ward wrote the Space Marine Codex, Jervis wrote the Dark Angels Codex. It's not like there's a proof reader that goes through the books making sure that they all use the same wording. If Belial leads a Dark Angel army, terminators may be taken as troops. For Logan, Wolf Guard count as troops. I forget what it is for bikes. Remember this is a game where grown men sit around and play with toy soldiers. I can't imagine that things can get so serious that we have to have every i dotted and every t crossed. It's not philosophy. The wording is perfectly understandable and completely unqualified. alas, it is that way... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2120572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pueriexdeus Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Being a life long DA player, I find this thread interesting. With the new V5 BBB things have changed, now every Chapter wants to have the other thing.... You know what they say. The Grass is greener on the other side of the fence. I remember when the Long Fangs could split their fire against two separate targets. Have they lost that ability? I don't know, but I accepted it as the way things were.... Now with the new V5 vs DA v4.5 the best army to field for the DA is the DW. So why should every Codex have that ability? If so then lets all pick and choose. I remember back when the Raven Wing were the best Bikers. That got nurfed in V4, and the Scars got their abilities. OK, so... We got over it. Where I'm going here is. Do we want a master Codex that allows us all to be counts as, regardless of the wording. Or do we want to keep our unique traits that make all the different Chapters special? I'm just responding as a frustrated DA player that hears the same feelings from other Chapters. OH, BTW. If your in town, I'll put my DW up against your WG any time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2120649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I've said it before, I'll say it again. Why should it "Count As" Troops for one aspect, and not as others? I mean, is it alright if I have a "Counts As" Khârn for the purposes of his statline and wargear, but not for his "Betrayer" special rule? It can only be applied fully, or not at all. Otherwise the whole system stops working. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2120668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deedark Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I've got 2 forgeworld Termie upgrades I never got built plus a pre-order on the new termie box, counts as might just push me to get them built and painted sooner, sounds funs So I say counts as = counts as Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2120682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliusb Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Counts as troops, troops score, Wolf Guard scoring. I can't begin to wrap my head around another interpretation. Some of these rules lawyers just make me laugh, it's funny because we have phases of the game called "movement", "shooting" and "assault"! Hahaha! Little plastic models cannot move, shoot or assault! I can prove it! I put my Abaddon model on my desk and talked trash to him all day and he didn't even shoot at me once, let alone assault me, what a pu$$y! So in other words, you're all wrong! No plastic models can count as Troops because they're not even people! There is no such thing as 40K! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2146922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Scotcho Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 way to threadomance dude. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2146963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgers37 Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 I only read a few bits on the first page, but has anyone mentiond Canis? it says 'count as' for Fen Wolves, but they cannot claim, therefore do not need to count as troops, i just think they have worded it diffrently, if it was just scoring unit, why would'nt it say, they count as a scoring unit? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2147074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Scotcho Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Because GDub games developers don't playtest their own rulebooks, and I personally think they don't play the game at all. I have a solution to GDub's plague of playtesting problems. Instead of just giving 'Ardboyz winners a free army, have them help playtest all the rules, since they are arguably the best players in the game, and if they can't break them, then consider the rules set good to go. It would be a perk for the players, seeing and playing the new rules sets before everyone else, and it'd solve GDub's rules confusion problems. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2147086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sintrix Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Just a curious question.. Is there not a way one could just send in an email to GW and ask them to clarify on these shoddy written rules? :lol: With how much they charge for their products you think they would have at least somewhat decent customer support! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2147091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgers37 Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 I only read a few bits on the first page, but has anyone mentiond Canis? it says 'count as' for Fen Wolves, but they cannot claim, therefore do not need to count as troops, i just think they have worded it diffrently, if it was just scoring unit, why would'nt it say, they count as a scoring unit? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178861-space-wolf-tda-army/page/6/#findComment-2147129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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