Land Raider playstyle

[minigun762]

Considering we don't have the luxury of dedicated assault variants of our Land Raiders, how do you get the most mileage out of the hybrid nature of our Land Raider?

 

A little theoryhammer would say that you should use it in the typical "chop the shootas and shoot the choppas" role.

Against superior assault armies (Orks), or armies you know have to be close to work (SoB), staying at range and blasting their army for a few turns with 3 TL'd weapons seems like the smart thing to do.

And against superior shooting armies (Tau), ignoring the shooting and focusing on getting into HtH combat as soon as possible seems to be the best method.

 

In this way it might be hard to use both parts of the Land Raider in any given match, but in a tournament setting where you will fight a variety of armies, the hybrid nature of the vehicle seems like a blessing.

[Smurfalypse]

Always be aggressive. Throw what you have at your enemy and do not allow him to maneuver, if you can force the issue of how he must defend you have taken away all choice and given yourself a decisive advantage on tactics.

[the jeske]

with a LR your always agresiv you build your army that way that nothing or almost nothing can be better at hth . zerkers in LR , supported by DPs or demon weapon lords . lash to to control units like bikers . etc. as a shoty unit our LR suck . no machine spirit makes them 250 pts lascanons in an edition where lascanon already have it hard to wound stuff and lets remember that when we take LR , there is no oblits and sometimes no termicid to support the army.

[Corpse.]

Agreed on the assault variation of the raider. Few marine armies have basic marines that are as decent as ours for their worth. Zerks can stand toe to toe with TH/SS an PF termies at the same unit cost-ish. Though if you prefer, 5 khorne/twin claw termies are decent for their cost. Or two lords/sorcerers with wind/warptime inside a unit of 8 marines.

 

Our raider has something others don't get. Lash first turn assault out of the transport.

[CavPathfinder]

Considering we don't have the luxury of dedicated assault variants of our Land Raiders, how do you get the most mileage out of the hybrid nature of our Land Raider?

 

A little theoryhammer would say that you should use it in the typical "chop the shootas and shoot the choppas" role.

Against superior assault armies (Orks), or armies you know have to be close to work (SoB), staying at range and blasting their army for a few turns with 3 TL'd weapons seems like the smart thing to do.

And against superior shooting armies (Tau), ignoring the shooting and focusing on getting into HtH combat as soon as possible seems to be the best method.

 

In this way it might be hard to use both parts of the Land Raider in any given match, but in a tournament setting where you will fight a variety of armies, the hybrid nature of the vehicle seems like a blessing.

I agree with your conclusion.

What do you plan to transport in yours? I think that'll be your biggest challenge in a tournament.

Specialty marines like Berzerkers and Terminators are probably overrkill against Imperial Guard and Tau.

 

When I've played IG/Tau and sat back with my Land Raider, I'd lose it.

When I've played Orks and charged in, well, that never seemed to work out for me.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

The nature of the beast also changes when you have multiple raiders. If you have 1 raider, its a supplement to your force. If you have 2 raiders, the rest of your list is the supplement to them.

 

2 raiders allows you to be more effective at things like refusing their deployment, then hitting a flank hard. With 2 raiders you can put more nasty CC units where you want them faster, but you have less cover. Tactics need to change accordingly.

[incinerator950]

yeah, and then you can legally field 6 of them in high point non apoc games.

[minigun762]

For the most part it sounds like if you want to use a Land Raider, you need to prioritize its transport ability over its firepower.

That makes sense since we don't have access to the Crusader or Redeemer but I'm worried its spending alot of points just to get that charge in and if thats really worth it.

[Atheist]

After most of you have played with termicide squads , do you still value the Chaos LR ?

 

I mean we're not talking about the SM one , which can actually fill decently both roles ( heavy support AND super transport ) .

 

You need a 7+ with a melta gun under 6" and it's 50% destroyed , but I'm just stating the obvious here .

 

If you can start the game with raptors ( with an icon ) on table and have termicides I think you can manoevre a bit so that the termicides will drop under 6" without scatter ( if you're lucky and they enter on turn 2 ) , or can even gamble the raptors to get close if they are equipped with melta guns . That is if you play second and consequently set up second . I have never faced more than three land raiders in a single list by the way . At 1500-1750 ( the usual game limit ) pts they are quite the point sink , even more so when we are talking about SM LR . Have I ever mentioned how much I love to react to my opponenent's moves on the first couple of rounds ? Sometimes I win the dice roll and decide to go second . If I can hide some of my units effectively ( almost all mechanised , with the exception of the deep strikers and the raptors ) , perhaps denying shooting altogether in some rare cases , then I just might hurt him more with deep striking elemements before going on a counteroffensive . Also , I never had the chance to play against a drop pod assault army , so perhaps my tactics are not that solid , but still ...

 

.. why would you like the Chaos Land Raider ? Could this be because it comes with a better chance to deliver a charge with a super close combat unit ? Isn't it too expensive to fill solely that role ? Can't it be avoided ( the intended charge ) ? Wouldn't you prefer having perhaps another troop in a rhino ?

 

Please keep in mind that I never plan a different list according to my opponent , which is not to say that my tactics and lists generally aren't influenced by the different opponents and lists I face .

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

I run 2x Raider at anything over 1000 (3 at 2500).

It's all about picking your battles with them and coordinating with the rest of your army.

I like them because they're good assault platforms for berzerkers and 4 TL lascannons can hurt an MC down to where berzerkers can reliably kill it.

 

I'm under no illusions about the match-ups though.

New guard *shudder*.

[Atheist]

I run 2x Raider at anything over 1000 (3 at 2500).

It's all about picking your battles with them and coordinating with the rest of your army.

I like them because they're good assault platforms for berzerkers and 4 TL lascannons can hurt an MC down to where berzerkers can reliably kill it.

 

I'm under no illusions about the match-ups though.

New guard *shudder*.

 

Exactly .

 

With two I must say that you can corner things more easily , but on the other hand we are talking about 470 pts ( assuming they are just for transporting guys around the table so they move 6"+ all the time ). I think it's a lot . But then , perhaps I can't grasp the tactics , I'll give you that .

[Cale]

I think I disagree with the majority, here. Often, you will want to use your land raiders aggressively, it's true. Against Guard, or Tau, or shooty Marines or Necrons, you're probably just going to want to rush up there and unload your berserkers into combat.

 

Against some armies, though, you're better off sitting back and shooting and waiting for them to come to you. Armies like Tyranids, Orks, and assaulty Chaos are basically going to come to you regardless of what you do. If you can take a turn or two of lascannon shots a their transports before they get to you, that'll be to your advantage. You can always opt to not shoot, move the Raider and charge once they get close enough through their own movement.

 

The Land Raider with Berserkers is a good unit because it does two different things. Either the Raider plays second string to the Berserkers, serving as a really good transport which gets them into combat, or the Berserkers support the Land Raider by offering it excellent protection against armies that are capable of closing with it quickly and destroying it at short range. They can't avoid the Berserkers 'cause the land raider is such a good transport, and they can't assault the land raider because the Berserkers intercept them and win. It's a two-part combination, and both parts do something important. Learning which part to focus on in which situation is important, and stating that you should always, always focus on being aggressive with your berserkers is bad advice. It's often true, but it's not always true.

[firestorm40k]

I've still yet to assemble my LR for my Legion of Taurus army :blush: but when I do I'll be using it to transport Berzerkers + Lord or Termicide :P

 

The sooner I get it done the better - I recently played a game against Guard where every shot of my Lascannon armed Predator just bounced off their Tanks, and some lucky rolling on my opponent's part saw my Rhino-mounted Marine squad get taken out just as they were about to charge :)

 

Aside from my army still needing faster elements, which I'm working on, I just think having a heavily armoured Tank that can charge to the Guard's HQ units and then have a CC squad go straight in to assault would have made a huge difference in that game!

 

If I were up against an Ork or Tyranid horde army I'm not sure I'd even take an LR, sit back and let Defiler & Vindicator blast the hordes and Pred target the MC/Dreds.

[Metal Slime]

If my opponent starts with a lot of units in reserve, I like to try to sprint up and park the Land Raider in the center of the board turn 1, and then let it play the 'sit and shoot' role from there, which I find to be the ideal location for it. I then reserve the contents of the raider for 'clean up' duty to mow through all the remaining weakened squads in later turns of the game, since there are few locations it can't get to and assault at quickly from the center. Assuming it survives, its also a good place for a weakened unit to retreat into, either to preserve a kill point or to hold an objective the LR might be parked on. This works best for objective based missions, so far.

 

Its tough, like you say... I have a similar issue with Noise Marines, trying not to waste either the I5 or the ranged weapons. With the Raider, its the full shooting or the assault ramp. I'm trying to devise a general strategy that allows me to use both most often!

[incinerator950]

I remember an ;) on 4chan who's tactic was to take his 6 Land Raiders (Non Apoc) and charge the enemy, pivot, and use his Lash Princes to move whoevers close enough into assault range for terminators/berserkers.

 

not a friendly person, we had an hour long argument about doing it.

[Corpse.]

I remember an ;) on 4chan who's tactic was to take his 6 Land Raiders (Non Apoc) and charge the enemy, pivot, and use his Lash Princes to move whoevers close enough into assault range for terminators/berserkers.

 

not a friendly person, we had an hour long argument about doing it.

 

 

........................

 

That was me trolling 4chan buddy.

 

And that's mutt-man's land raider army he left behind when he moved. That :) made a new marine army and wont sell/give away his other force thats just collecting dust. He also refused to let me mail the damn stuff to him.

 

As proof it was me, the list was this right?

 

6 Raiders (1320)

3x3 Termies: Single Powerfist (100x3=300)

3x5 Marines: Single Meltagun (85x3=255)

1 Lash Sorc (125)

 

The trick:

Land raiders must have their side sponsons on the rear hatches, not the front. Deploy with them sideways and up against the line as much as possible. Upon first turn, pivot(adds about 1"). Move 12". Disembark the full 2" away like coherency with the 2" mark touching the edge of the base and the model is not inside the 2". Lash something close. Terminators larger base (25mm is 1", termies have 40mm base). You have effectively snagged someone from 34" away from you table edge if it was pitched battle. You can effectively get someone worse with table quarters, and start off the table entirely with dawn of war.

 

You can stand and shoot the entire game and keep your men hidden and then take things in the final turns. Or rush forward and tie the enemy up and tank shock everything off the table. First turn assault or keep meltaguns back with lash. Either way its a tough army to crack at 2000.

 

 

I hope I didn't piss you off too much bud. Its legal and an army at 2000 pts, I would rather face 9 bare bones leman russ battle tanks then that 6 raider setup.

 

Edit:

 

Oh and also... I mentioned the house rule to avoid the "pivot bonus inches" since almost every vehicle is longer then it is wider. To measure from the center point of the vehicle when moving it. As a house rule, that removes the 1" benefit, (and if anyone moves to the max distance pivoting even just slightly within the move, your adding distance no matter what unless its a perfect sphere).

[Drudge Dreadnought]

That army sounds amusing, but how do that few units ever kill anything in assault or survive the counter charge? 12 tl-lc and 6 tl-heavy bolters isn't all that much in 2k.

[Corpse.]

That army sounds amusing, but how do that few units ever kill anything in assault or survive the counter charge? 12 tl-lc and 6 tl-heavy bolters isn't all that much in 2k.

 

 

You would be a bit surprised how a few bulky land raiders can block off the enemy and have three or more units (Including a I6 force weapon when lash isnt used) can eliminate entire units one at a time.

 

12 TLLC, 10.66 hits, 8.8 marine deaths a turn.

6 TLHB 16 hits, 3.55 marine deaths a turn.

 

Two turns of that and your opponent has about as many marines as you have left. Except you've got 9 terminators and a sorc.

 

One temptation I always run into is removing 5 marines, the meltaguns and powerfists to add more terminators or use the havoc launchers on all the raiders (he has them on there already). He had to put them on there I bet.

 

The dumbed down list for 1500 is the following:

3 Raiders (680)

3 Predators: 2 HB, 1 AC (100x3=300)

3x3 Termies: Nothing (90x3=270)

2x5 Marines: Flamer (80x2=160)

Lord: (Nothing) 90

 

Much more min-maxxed then before. I never use it, though I let someone else try it with overwhelming success.

 

The 1000 pt list is:

3 Raiders (680)

2x5 Marines: Flamer (80x2=160)

Prince: (nothing) = 110

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Thats about the same number of wounds one of my noise marine squads can average. You also have to add a couple turns for you to move the list into position, and then another couple to blow those marines out of their transports. My guess is the only reason this list works is because people don't have enough anti tank weapons capable of hurting a land raider. I wouldn't expect it to work again stuff like proper vulkan lists.

[rodgers37]

When i use a Land Raider, it has Abaddon in it :P

[incinerator950]

figures :lol:

[Corpse.]

Thats about the same number of wounds one of my noise marine squads can average. You also have to add a couple turns for you to move the list into position, and then another couple to blow those marines out of their transports. My guess is the only reason this list works is because people don't have enough anti tank weapons capable of hurting a land raider. I wouldn't expect it to work again stuff like proper vulkan lists.

 

 

Well its not perfect, and it abuses the fact that most brightlances are BS3 (then dead shortly there-after 1 round of shooting normally). It has its ups and downs.

 

Vulkan drop pod lists that are melta heavy are the norm bane, and even then the raiders still have the advantage of picking off an enemy piecemeal.

 

 

I honestly dont play the list enough to get a good feel for it. I just go off what the mutt tells me to do with it.