Night Runner Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Hi, I was just on 'Bell of Lost Souls' and they brought up a very interesting question about how ths rule should be interpreted. The rule is about HQ gear combinations: ...packs of Space Wolves work best when led by a single dominant personality, each hero respected for his own abilities. To represent this, no two characters may bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargear combination. Should the last line read - "no two characters may bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargear combination" with the coloured phrase as one option or should it read "no two characters may bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargear combination" with the coloured phrases as different options. Personally I'm leaning with the second interpretation. I think it would lead to less power play considering we can take 2 character per HQ slot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunchb0x Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 It says it , I believe, in black and white. Cant have the same stuff for everyone, forces you to choose who is going to do what with what and with what unit and what their objective is...anti monster, anti unit, anti vehicle, anti character. Though, by their own logic/rules, if you take 2 wolf priests one can have a standard gear, the other cant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2117778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhorse47 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I would say if you have one common power and a different one between two characters that would meet the definition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2117788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenger Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 i believe njal has all powers, so if that were the case no other rune priest would be available to be taken. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2117821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 i believe njal has all powers, so if that were the case no other rune priest would be available to be taken. Special characters are excluded. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2117824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 i believe njal has all powers, so if that were the case no other rune priest would be available to be taken. Special characters are excluded. Easy for me, there simply can't be any duplication. No two characters can have the same Saga = only on Saga of the Bear in the army. No psychic powers the same = only one JotWW in the army. No set of wargear the same = only one hero with Frost Blade and Storm Shield. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2117841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Runner Posted September 19, 2009 Author Share Posted September 19, 2009 i believe njal has all powers, so if that were the case no other rune priest would be available to be taken. Special characters are excluded. Easy for me, there simply can't be any duplication. No two characters can have the same Saga = only on Saga of the Bear in the army. No psychic powers the same = only one JotWW in the army. No set of warhead the same = only one hero with Frost Blade and Storm Shield. Valerian I agree. Only one pyschic power, only one saga, and no same weapon combination, even if you include SC. But you have to admit the wording is ambiguous and can be parsed according to a player's agenda. Especially powerplaying lawyers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2117844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I've just looked at it and it says in the sagas section that no saga can be taken twice with the exception of special characters having a saga. Not sure on wargear though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2117857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Runner Posted September 19, 2009 Author Share Posted September 19, 2009 I've just looked at it and it says in the sagas section that no saga can be taken twice with the exception of special characters having a saga. Not sure on wargear though. I haven't got the dex, so I stand corrected on that point. Thanks Mikal Wolfheart for taking the time to check it out. Either way I'm more interested in the spirit the rule was written in, that is to avoid abuse. I have a feeling I'll be meeting unscrupulous players who'll abuse it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2117863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I've just looked at it and it says in the sagas section that no saga can be taken twice with the exception of special characters having a saga. Not sure on wargear though. I haven't got the dex, so I stand corrected on that point. Thanks Mikal Wolfheart for taking the time to check it out. Either way I'm more interested in the spirit the rule was written in, that is to avoid abuse. I have a feeling I'll be meeting unscrupulous players who'll abuse it. No problem, it's why we have this place after all. I can't check the wargear thing though but I imagine it would be the same. I'm not too sure how the ruling should work. But I'm going to do my best to keep my characters unique except perhaps in apocalypse. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2117864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhorse47 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 It will quickly become apparent which players are using cheese and power strategies, and which are following the spirit of the Wolves. I for one am really looking forward to our new found abilities and can't wait to try them all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2117928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Landrain Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I believe he is asking this question.. Rune Priest with JOtWW + combi-weapon Rune Priest with JOtWW + melta bombs Rune Priest with JOtWW + frostblade Rune Priest with JOtWW + plasma pistol as all 4 are different combinations of psychic powers and wargear. ... the question is do the powers and gear get added up as one selection.. or as two different selections. Which is a rather important distinction... The sagas have their own only 1 per army rule, so thats easy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2117985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I believe he is asking this question.. Rune Priest with JOtWW + combi-weapon Rune Priest with JOtWW + melta bombs Rune Priest with JOtWW + frostblade Rune Priest with JOtWW + plasma pistol as all 4 are different combinations of psychic powers and wargear. ... the question is do the powers and gear get added up as one selection.. or as two different selections. Which is a rather important distinction... The sagas have their own only 1 per army rule, so thats easy. Yeah we know. Question already answered. No duplication in any of the three catagories (except for Special Characters). Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2117993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Landrain Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 so then.. (not having the codex yet or a list of powers, so using common ones) Rune Priest with (JOtWW & force barrier) + combi-weapon Rune Priest with (JOtWW & smite)+ melta bombs Rune Priest with (JOtWW & quickening)+ frostblade Rune Priest with JOtWW + plasma pistol is allowable? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2118002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 For what it's worth, I'd follow that you can duplicate a power on multiple Rune Priests, but only so long as the Rune Priests do not have the same TOTAL Psychic powers. No JotWW/Force Barrier TWICE. However, JotWW/Force Barrier + JotWW/Smite is allowable. The keynote, as I believe it was mentioned in Warseer, is "Powers". Plural. If it was "Power", I'd agree that only one of a specific power should be on the board. However, "Powers" means something completely different. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2118004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhorse47 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I think Decoy has it right. But that still could be argued. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2118008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCarter Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 To answer Night Runner's question, look at the punctuation. If "psychic power" was intended to modify "combination" then it would be written "psychic-power." So, paraphrased, the RAW would read could be written "same wargear combination and same psychic power." This indicates that a duplication of either the power or the wargear is possible but not a duplication of both, that is, using proper English punctuation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2118010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I think you're barking at the right tree but the wrong cat, JC. "Nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargear combination". I think this is just clarifying that if you have a Rune Priest with: JotWW/Force Barrier, as well as Frost Blade, you cannot then have a Rune Priest with: JotWW/Quickenning, as well as another Frost Blade. No characters can EVER have the same Wargear, and no characters can EVER have the same Psychic Powers. Therefore, when creating the characters, check first the Powers, to see if there are any direct duplicates of all Powers. If there are not, then check Wargear to see if there are any exact duplicates. If there are not, your characters are set and ready to tear some -_- up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2118012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 so then.. (not having the codex yet or a list of powers, so using common ones) Rune Priest with (JOtWW & force barrier) + combi-weapon Rune Priest with (JOtWW & smite)+ melta bombs Rune Priest with (JOtWW & quickening)+ frostblade Rune Priest with JOtWW + plasma pistol is allowable? Not the way I read it. Rule says they can't have the same psychic powers. To me that is clear. As I said up above, if you get a second Rune Priest then both of his powers need to be different, not just one. The designers clearly want no duplication. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2118030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 How do you figure, Valerian? "Same psychic powers" is quite clear. The English language is a finicky thing, but quite precise in certain instances. "Same psychic powers", by the breakdown of the English language, states in paraphrase: "A group of powers collectively identical to another group of powers". Therefore, the combination that you quote, by the letter of the English language, is quite permissible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2118033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askari Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Does that mean that only one character per army can have a frost blade? Or does it mean one character can have a frost blade and plasma pistol while the other can have a frost blade and a storm shield. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2118034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Your second example is correct, Askari. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2118036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeddon Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 *sigh* The wording clearly states that "no two characters may bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargear combination.". If the intent was to keep players from taking four Rune Priests with JotWW than it would be worded "no two characters may bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargear." It's not cheating, it's simply playing the game as it is written. If the "intent" was to not allow more than one character to take, say, a plasma pistol than they should write it that way. What this rule is intended to disallow is using cookie-cutter characters, nothing more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2118053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 *sigh* The wording clearly states that "no two characters may bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargear combination.". If the intent was to keep players from taking four Rune Priests with JotWW than it would be worded "no two characters may bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargear." It's not cheating, it's simply playing the game as it is written. If the "intent" was to not allow more than one character to take, say, a plasma pistol than they should write it that way. What this rule is intended to disallow is using cookie-cutter characters, nothing more. Quoted for truth and simplicity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2118057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Your second example is correct, Askari. See, here I agree with you. Because the part concerning wargear says the can't have the same combination of wargear, then that means the "set" of wargear cannot be the same, but individual items within the set can be the same. The portion regarding psychic powers does not say that characters may not have the same combination of powers, it simply says that they cannot have the same powers. To me, this means that the powers can't be the same; as in neither of the powers can be the same. I do see your point, and it is certainly a valid interpretation of the language. It's just not the understanding that I get out of it. Are four Rune Priests all with JotWW and some other power truly unique? Nah, not really. Best regards, Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/178997-wg-gear-combination/#findComment-2118076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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