White Hunter Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 The question is pretty self explanatory so which does everyone believe is better? Personally that frost blade with +1S seems to edge it out over the wolf claws. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179021-which-is-better-frost-blade-or-wolf-claws/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Wolf Claws against models T5 or less, Frost Blade against models 6 or more. Someone mind doing the mathhammer for me? Someone else did it earlier, and I'm in the middle of repairing my computer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179021-which-is-better-frost-blade-or-wolf-claws/#findComment-2118035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokafort Stonewolf Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Alright, I'm bored enough. For a model with X attacks and strength Y: Toughness Y: If hitting on 3s: frost blade will inflict = .444X wounds; on 4s, 0.333X; on 5s, .222X. Wolf Claw Rerolling Hit: 3s: .444X; 4s: 0.375X; 5s: .28X Wolf Claw Rerolling Wound: 3s: .45X; 4s: 0.375X 5s: 0.25X Note that this is the mean. You can use standard deviation in your favour when hitting on 4s and wounding on 4s or better: reroll to hit instead. Toughness Y+1: Frost Blade 3s: .333X; 4s: .25X; 5s: .167X Wolf Claw RR Hit: 3s: .296X; 4s: .25X; 5s: 0.185X Wolf Claw RR Wound: 3s: 0.369X; 4s: 0.28X; 5s: 0.185X; Toughness Y+2: Frost Blade 3s: 0.22X; 4s: 0.17X; 5s: 0.11X Wolf Claw RR Hit: 3s: 0.15X; 4s: 0.125X; 5s: 0.09X Wolf Claw RR Wound: 3s: 0.2X; 4s: 0.151X; 5s: 0.1X You have it right on the money. Frost Blade starts getting good at T5 for a marine and T6 for a wolf rider...except for one problem we missed! X-1 attacks for the claw in MOST, but not all, cases. For TDA it's clear: use the claws. For models on wolves that do NOT take a storm shield, the difference in damaging attacks is relatively small. Even for large numbers of attacks (5 vs 6 on a wolf rider charging), the frosty wins out. 0.369*5 = 1.845 0.3333*6 = 2. Frost blade wins even in one of the strongest cases for the claw. 2 CCW? Frost blade. 1 CCW? Wolf Claw. Don't waste the points for double claws, the output isn't worth it. Canis is very good. That's all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179021-which-is-better-frost-blade-or-wolf-claws/#findComment-2118141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunchb0x Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 MY FISTS!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179021-which-is-better-frost-blade-or-wolf-claws/#findComment-2118143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Hunter Posted September 20, 2009 Author Share Posted September 20, 2009 Are frost blades available to wolf guard in TDA or are they only available to units in power armor? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179021-which-is-better-frost-blade-or-wolf-claws/#findComment-2118326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Wolf Guard can take frost blades in terminator armour. Wolf Lords and Battle Leaders cannot as of yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179021-which-is-better-frost-blade-or-wolf-claws/#findComment-2118333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Hunter Posted September 20, 2009 Author Share Posted September 20, 2009 are they cheaper in terminator armor like other weapons options for WG Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179021-which-is-better-frost-blade-or-wolf-claws/#findComment-2118342 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjugin Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Wolf claw generally is better, but its really expensive to take two, so its best together with a storm shield. Frost blade is cheaper (if you want an extra weapon for +1 attack), and together with belt of russ the two combos costs the same. If you got points for dual wolf claws, that is better as long as you do not wound on 6+ or against vehicles. Frost blade + belt of Russ Statistics they do a little more damage. Wolf claw + storm shield Obviously a more survivable character. Some calculations: Charing with thunderwolf ------------ T3 -- T4 -- T5 -- T6 FB+BoR: 3,9 - 3,9 - 3,1 - 2,3 WC+SH: 3,9 - 3,6 - 3,0 - 2,2 Not charing with thunderwolf ------------ T3 -- T4 -- T5 -- T6 FB+BoR: 3,3 - 3,3 - 2,7 - 2,0 WC+SH: 3,2 - 3,0 - 2,5 - 1,9 Charing on foot/bike ------------ T3 -- T4 -- T5 -- T6 FB+BoR: 3,3 - 2,7 - 2,0 - 1,3 WC+SH: 3,0 - 2,5 - 1,9 - 1,0 Not charing on foot/bike ------------ T3 -- T4 -- T5 -- T6 FB+BoR: 2,8 - 2,2 - 1,7 - 1,1 WC+SH: 2,4 - 2,0 - 1,5 - 0,8 Wolf guard battle leader, on foot, not charing ------------ T3 -- T4 -- T5 -- T6 FB+BoR: 2,2 - 1,8 - 1,3 - 0,9 WC+SH: 1,8 - 1,5 - 1,1 - 0,6 As you can see, a frost blade will always do more damage thanks to the extra attack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179021-which-is-better-frost-blade-or-wolf-claws/#findComment-2118354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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