Grey Hunter Special Weapons

[Aeddon]

You guys are really overanalising this.

 

In the example of 9 Grey Hunters with a Wolf Guard Pack Leader and then a unit of 4 Wolf Guard. Are there 10 models in the GH squad? Yes, they can have two special weapons. Are there 5 WG on the table? Yes, one may take a TDA HW.

 

End of story.

 

If for some reason you feel that you do not wish to play with me because I play as the rules are written than you are just the type of person who seeks to change the rules because you don't like them. If you believe the rule is unfluffy than change it for your gaming group. But don't try to scold people who actually play by the rules.

[Hfran Morkai]

Well I believe that analysis is a crucial part of the GW hobby. And I believe that so long as we can keep this civilised that we will get to the answer, or a FAQ will be released to put us out of our misery. I can see both arguments however I still feel that the Wolf Guard is not part of the squad because he is simply "allocated" to the unit, not actually being a squad member himself.

[Ravenger]

well id have to say that the 9+1 = 2 special guns. WGPL count as our version of a veteran sgt, they were upgraded from the unit in the 13th company.

[DV8]

You guys are really overanalising this.

 

In the example of 9 Grey Hunters with a Wolf Guard Pack Leader and then a unit of 4 Wolf Guard. Are there 10 models in the GH squad? Yes, they can have two special weapons. Are there 5 WG on the table? Yes, one may take a TDA HW.

 

End of story.

 

If for some reason you feel that you do not wish to play with me because I play as the rules are written than you are just the type of person who seeks to change the rules because you don't like them. If you believe the rule is unfluffy than change it for your gaming group. But don't try to scold people who actually play by the rules.

 

The issue here isn't how you play it. It can be done either way, and unfortunately until GW FAQs it it'll be down to interpretation. The key is to play it CONSISTENTLY.

 

If you treat the WGPL as the 10th member of a Grey Hunters squad for selection (and thus "part of" the squad), then any Wolf Guard packs you take cannot take into consideration these detached WGPL as part of the squad because they are now part of a different squad (a model cannot be part of more than one squad at any given time).

 

 

DV8

[Mr. Danvers]

You can't take a 2nd special for adding a WGL into a GH unit.

 

This is because you check for the 10th man when the list is written and all wargear is created, not when the battle starts (which is when the WGL is attached).

 

You don't just happen to find an extra plasma gun lying on the floor in your deployment zone because the WG assigned to your squad tripped over it when he joined you.

[Toasterfree]

You guys are really over analising this.

 

In the example of 9 Grey Hunters with a Wolf Guard Pack Leader and then a unit of 4 Wolf Guard. Are there 10 models in the GH squad? Yes, they can have two special weapons. Are there 5 WG on the table? Yes, one may take a TDA HW.

 

End of story.

 

If for some reason you feel that you do not wish to play with me because I play as the rules are written than you are just the type of person who seeks to change the rules because you don't like them. If you believe the rule is unfluffy than change it for your gaming group. But don't try to scold people who actually play by the rules.

(typing correction by Toasterfree)

 

You can't have both. You get the 5 HW for the WG because when you bought the unit, you bought 5. WHen you bought the GH you bought 9.

The rule is for the GH to have 10 men, not 9xGH+1WG. the rule is written a bit vague, but the pronoun "the squad" refers back to the GH, not the GH+WG

 

You can't take a 2nd special for adding a WGL into a GH unit.

 

This is because you check for the 10th man when the list is written and all wargear is created, not when the battle starts (which is when the WGL is attached).

 

You don't just happen to find an extra plasma gun lying on the floor in your deployment zone because the WG assigned to your squad tripped over it when he joined you.

 

everyone knows that you make all ugrade purchases BEFORE deployment, not after. if you are changing your list AFTER deployment then you are cheating. the WGPL is added AT deployment.

[DV8]

One thing I also want to mention is squad composition.

 

If you look at the Grey Hunters Pack unit entry in the Codex, there is a section specifically stating, and I quote:

 

Composition: 5-10 Grey Hunters

 

And paraphrasing again:

 

If the squad numbers ten models,...

 

To me that indicates the squad referencing models as entirely Grey Hunters. At no point are Wolf Guard Pack Leaders considered.

 

 

DV8

[Toasterfree]

text deleted for duplicate posting

[Aeddon]

(typing correction by Toasterfree)

Wow, someone is full of himself...

 

In the case of the 9 GH and 1 WG there are ten models in the squad. The WG is not an IC, he is a part of the squad. Is counting really that challenging?

 

Now, after rereading the rules for WG I do agree that this WGPL would not count towards the five needed to add a TDA special weapon to the WG squad, he would still have to be in their squad for that. But that does not change the fact that a ten man squad of GH (9GH+1WG) can take two special weapons.

[Decoy]

Firstly, Wolf Guard are separated from their squad after they've been bought. The squad, when bought, numbers ten models, and so TDA special options are a given, allowable to Wolf Guard Pack Leaders. This is explained because "Before the battle", but presumably after the army list has been solidified, one may move Wolf Guard to become pack leaders. Therefore, Long Fangs with an Assault Cannon.

 

However, Grey Hunters specifically state, "If the squad numbers ten models... may replace ... weaponry... with a weapon from the above list at no extra cost." This implies that, while the list is being made, if the squad numbers ten models, they get a free special weapon.

 

Consequentially, the Pack Leader is not a part of the Grey Hunters while the list is being made. Instead, the Pack Leader is part of the Wolf Guard squad he originates from.

 

Likewise, because the Grey Hunters MUST number 10 models before the game begins, and before the "Battle" (since you have to have a list before you can even conceive a battle), applying a Wolf Guard to a squad of nine Grey Hunters does not grant a special weapon. It would be, for lack of a better term, cheating.

[Hfran Morkai]

(typing correction by Toasterfree)

Wow, someone is full of himself...

 

In the case of the 9 GH and 1 WG there are ten models in the squad. The WG is not an IC, he is a part of the squad. Is counting really that challenging?

 

Now, after rereading the rules for WG I do agree that this WGPL would not count towards the five needed to add a TDA special weapon to the WG squad, he would still have to be in their squad for that. But that does not change the fact that a ten man squad of GH (9GH+1WG) can take two special weapons.

 

Then I feel it's fine for you to play it like that until we get clarification, whereas I'm playing it the other way. I'm not really that concerned by an additional meltagun in my assaulty squads anyway.

[Ridmasta]

In the october white dwarf they have a wolfguard in tda with a cyclone leading some long fangs, and a squad of 9 grey hunters lead by a wolfguard with only 1 special weapon

[Toasterfree]

However, Grey Hunters specifically state, "If the squad numbers ten models... may replace ... weaponry... with a weapon from the above list at no extra cost." This implies that, while the list is being made, if the squad numbers ten models, they get a free special weapon.

Ok, no one argues that the entry states "if the squad number ten models...". No what we are having here is a wording issue. The entry does NOT sa "If the squad numers 9 and a Wolf Guard...". So if you go by ENGLISH, it is easy to understand that it is referring back to the Grey Hunters. Since they are THE SQUAD. Not the 9GH+1WG.

 

If the entry said "Anytime the squad numbers ten models..." there would be no debate.

[Decoy]

Can't say that's a definitive thing, Rid, but seems about as close to the truth as I'd expect. Makes the most sense, ultimately.

 

I think we're agreeing on things, Toaster, but we're somehow getting lost in translation here. Hehe. Let's just say we agree and call it at that?

[Hfran Morkai]

In the october white dwarf they have a wolfguard in tda with a cyclone leading some long fangs, and a squad of 9 grey hunters lead by a wolfguard with only 1 special weapon

 

Hmmm... that seems convincing because surely GW would have shown that you could have two special weapons in a 9 man squad with pack leader, I mean the versatility you could gain from it.

[Toasterfree]

I think we're agreeing on things, Toaster, but we're somehow getting lost in translation here. Hehe. Let's just say we agree and call it at that?

LOL! I stopped talking you man. I saw that a long time ago. how ever it was Aeddon and a shower that brought that last thought on. I was diagramming the sentence, entry, as well as this thread the entire time. all while i am supposed to be working on a paper that is due thrusday.

[Ridmasta]

Can't say that's a definitive thing, Rid, but seems about as close to the truth as I'd expect. Makes the most sense, ultimately.

 

I think we're agreeing on things, Toaster, but we're somehow getting lost in translation here. Hehe. Let's just say we agree and call it at that?

 

 

Quoted for truth! I picked up today and had a read thru quickly so i could take part in the discussions! I have space wolves from the past and am eager to get started again :D

[Decoy]

Yeah, I'm frazzled, m'self. Just analyzed total spatial drift, factoring for blank space, between the milky way galaxy and Andromeda, in addition to calculating overall gravitational impact should the two galaxies collide in three specific forms.

 

My brain is bloody bleeding, I swear.

 

Well :cuss then, Rid! Get yourself introduced in the stickytopic up top if you haven't already, and settle yourself in! Looks like you'll be a contributing member of the Fang, and I like ya already.

 

Welcome back to the Fang, Brother. Nip yourself an ale, put it on Jonas' tab, and enjoy yourself.

[Toasterfree]

Yeah, I'm frazzled, m'self. Just analyzed total spatial drift, factoring for blank space, between the milky way galaxy and Andromeda, in addition to calculating overall gravitational impact should the two galaxies collide in three specific forms.

 

My brain is bloody bleeding, I swear.

lets just hope that the DA and 1k suns are in the way yes?

[Ridmasta]

Will do matey!

[Decoy]

Can only hope, mate. Can only hope. Especially those damned DA. K-sons? I can live with those guys. At least they're quiet. DA? Aww HEEEEEEEEEEEEEELL naw. Us 13th, we punk their crap all the time. Thunderhawks, armor... "Fallen"... whatever. And all they do is complain about it... I swear. Sometimes I just wish the Emperor would psychic-sneeze and accidentally blow a few of them up every now and then.

[Toasterfree]

Can only hope, mate. Can only hope. Especially those damned DA. K-sons? I can live with those guys. At least they're quiet. DA? Aww HEEEEEEEEEEEEEELL naw. Us 13th, we punk their crap all the time. Thunderhawks, armor... "Fallen"... whatever. And all they do is complain about it... I swear. Sometimes I just wish the Emperor would psychic-sneeze and accidentally blow a few of them up every now and then.

if he did that,and they were wiped out by some kind of freak warp accident, who would we kill? orks?

[Decoy]

No, no, above all else, they're our Brethren. But I think it'd be hilarious if their entire chapter spontaneously blew massive, Psychically-charged snot-rockets down the front of their pristine dres... Robes. (Okay, I'm done thread-jacking now. Hehe. Let's behave ourselves, Toaster.)

[Toasterfree]

Im just wondering if i should "find" the points for some WG in my list, or if i should stick with what I have. I wont get the extra weapon, at least with the primary list that I have.

[DV8]

I think it'll depend heavily on what you need the unit to do, and what other units you have in your army. I have quite a bit of anti-armor (a lot of close range Meltas/bombs, and lots of Missile Launchers), so I'm sticking 1 Meltagun and Power-Fist toting Pack Leaders in all my Grey Hunter packs (with Marks of the Wulfen across the board for extra stabby).

 

 

DV8