Help how should I use Fast attack units?

[White Hunter]

Okay, I've been putting together a list, and I am wondering how important the fast attacks slots are. I personally have a difficult time deciding how to effectively use those types of units, and whenever I use them they tended to be suicide squads/fire magnets. Could someone explain some effective tactics with FA units. Any help is really appreciated.

[WG Vrox]

Do you want to work with models you already have or are you wondering which models you should purchase?

 

Your question is difficult because our new FA choice can be very strong and expensive or cheap and expendable. In addition you can look at our FA in two different ways either it is based around what forces you already have or your main forces can be built around your FA.

 

Right after GH, For me FA is one of the better changes in our Dex, we have almost double the options we used too just based on cost reduction alone, when you throw in the 2 extra choices it adds all sorts of combos.

 

For me I have a mixed mech force with 1 DP. I am currently play testing with 7FW +1 CW, 3 SCBikers +1 AB and 6 Sky Claws.

 

I think if you are not maxing out your FA slots your making a mistake, even if it's only taking 3 squads of 8 FW, at just under 150 points for that kind of distraction is a no brainer for me.

 

But let us know more of what you want to take in your main force, what modes you have available and I think we can get you a better answer.

 

WG Vrox.

[Karack Blackstone]

I've tried three packs of skyclaws before, with mixed results depending on what they're fighting. The lack of a WG with a fist and a jump-pack is really noticable when taking on the monstrous creatures of the Nidzilla list.

 

Anyway, to answer your question, it's a learning experience for a while now, but ask yourself what you want.

 

We have access to Skyclaws, great assault troops.

 

Also we can get Swiftclaws, bikers that have dual weapons, and cover save now I understand

 

The age-old tried and true land speeders to use.

 

And don't forget our Thunderwolf Cavalry.

 

Oh, plus the Fenrisian Wolves.

 

So which is your Great Company going to bring with them? I use three skyclaws packs, but that's just because I don't have other models yet. They're strong versus troops, but not so great against MC's as they lack a WG with a Fist and Pack leading them. Hopefully this gets fixed in the 'Dex or the FAQ.

 

As far as your situation, try stuff out, review the army lists section, and see what you like. I can't offer much, but you'll find what you like soon enough.

[White Hunter]

Okay, thanks. So I don't have any fast attack models yet so my question would be more a question of what FA units should I buy. Okay on to my list, I got into playing with my friends and we play around 2500 points usually, and so I have a larger points army in mind. I also purchased some unpainted models from my friend when I decided to start playing space wolves so I have a wierd collection to start with.

 

Logan Grimnar

15 terminators (unassembled)

2 assembled LRR's with multimelta with the crusader parts

1 Land Raider

2 GH packs

 

I also will be ordering at least 2 rhino's and another 2 boxes of PA space wolves. My basic planned list as of right now is

 

Grimnar 275

Rune Priest in terminator Jaws of the world wolf and chain lightning 140ish

 

 

4x Wolf Guard (1TH+SS, 3x basic terminators) +Arjak 380ish

6x Wolf Guard (the one with Cyclone + pf goes with footslogging GH) 240ish

 

 

10 GH with Rhino 2x Melta and Power weapon 205

10 GH with Rhino 2x Melta and Power weapon 205

10 GH 2x plasma footsloggers home objective campers 160

 

LRR with MM 250

LRR with MM 250

2x predator Lascannon turrets and heavy bolter sponsons 260

 

Total 2365

 

This leaves me with 135 points for either elites, fast attack, or to trick out my WG

[WG Vrox]

With that list I think you would be most happy with 3 SC Bikers MG and MB +1 AB w/MM. This can be a very effective tank busting unit or if need be, run them straight at a dev type squad to take pressure off your LRs.

 

 

WG Vrox

[Karack Blackstone]

Just to note, you're going to have to drop one of either your Predators or LRR's because it's 3 HS choices and you have listed four...

 

That gives you more points to use, at least.

[White Hunter]

one of the LRR's will be a dedicated transport for a unit of WG

[Karack Blackstone]

Ah-ha.

[White Hunter]

I guess I'm up in the air between a unit of sky claws ,a unit of thunder wolf cav, or a unit of land speeders. could anyone give me the pros/cons of each within the structure my army.

[Locmac]

Well skyclaws are cheap, fast and get big units and lots of attacks. Problem is the hit they have 3 BS and WS. so you they could give you more models on the board, but with less "skill" then WG. If i understand right Twolves are durable and hard hitting. How ever they can cost quite a bit so you may not have the points. land speeders can be used as heavy weapons platforms, but can die easily.

[El Scotcho]

Well here's an attempt at an answer

 

1) Thunderwolves

Pros:

Good Number of attacks

Cavalry= 6 inch movement and 12 inch charge plus fleet

High toughness

Lots of Wargear options

 

Cons:

Expensive

Small unit size

Expensive ($$$$$)

 

2)Skyclaws

Pros:

Large unit size (compared to the other 2)

High number if attacks

High Movement speed

Low points cost

not terribly expensive monetarily

 

Cons:

lower BS and WS compared to Thunderwolf Cavalry

lower survivability than Thunderwolves

cannot have as many powerfists as Thunderwolves

Cannot give them a Wolf Guard to lead the squad

 

3) Land Speeders

Pros:

High Mobility

2xMulti Meltas per vehicle

Cons:

Low number per squad

Expensive Monetarily

Flying bases are a pain in the ass

Easy to kill

 

As fir my opinion on the matter, I'll be running at least one squad of thunderwolves, because I like them for fluff reasons

[White Hunter]

I think that I like the thunderwolves as well, what do you guys think is the best loadout for them?

[lunchb0x]

Fast.

[WG Vrox]

Pros:

 

Good Number of attacks

Cavalry= 12 inch movement and charge

 

 

Using the Run rule you can get another 6" on a d6, but Cavalry like troops move 6". However indeed they do assult 12" and having a potential 24" charge in your pocket adds a nice little scare factor all it's own.

 

 

WG Vrox.

[greese_m0nkey]

Don't they have to have Fleet of foot to charge after they run?

[WG Vrox]

All beasts and Cavalry have fleet.

 

I think that I like the thunderwolves as well, what do you guys think is the best loadout for them?

Add Canis and have him join 2 FW as is and a third with SS/TH.

 

The whole squad, brace yourself. 375 ish.

 

Run them behind a cheap Fen wolf squad and you might make their points back, but either way you add great Psy Opps factor to your army.

 

Still think you would be better off with 4 Bikers.

 

WG Vrox.

[Brother Grius]

I almost feel like saying forget Canis, run a squad of 5 with 2 TH/SS and 1 Frost Axe. You'll have more attacks and more face-crunching, :(-stomping power for 395.

[Kenmichi]

Are bikes still a good unit to take, even with WS and BS 3?

 

I'm debating between Speeders and Bikers for a mixed anti-infantry/tank role. 2 of each perhaps, trying to stay with a mechanized theme.

[Level]

Skyclaws can be nice if paired with a Wolf priest. He can turn them into a very effective infantry assault unit and monster hunting pack.

Without him though....... :P

 

Thunderwolf cavalry are very very cool, stunning to look at and a very high impact assault unit too. but keep them simple or you end up with a bit of a point sink, 300 odd points, no way it will be worth it. I reckon the way to go is packs of 3 with a thunder hammer on one and the rest natural, so your looking at around 180 points for a very fast and very dangerous addition to your list. The trick is to keep them safe along side (and preferably behind) at least one pack of fenrisian wolves because your opponent will shoot them down quickly if given the chance as they are a major threat to pretty much anything and everything.

 

Personally, I have always loved Land speeders. with the new Typhoon pattern is great for fire support and claiming objectives. Ok they may be fragile but I find that if you keep them at the back, they have the range to put in 2 missiles and potentially 3 HB shots per turn pretty much where you need them and your opponent will be forced to shoot at them with whatever long range and therefore heavy weapons they have if they want to take them out, which means that they are not shooting at something else. Mostly people just ignore them as they are fairly low on the target priority list.

 

Finally the Swift Claw Bikers. These I think are the best of our options. you can put togther a small unit relatively cheaply. Meltabombs on a pack of 3 makes a pretty effective tank hunting unit for less than 100 points. they can also tie up any nasty heavy weapons units untill support arrives and with Turbo boost they make awesome objective contesters for the end game. the addition of a wolfguard makes them not only more survivable but also quite dangerous. I think pound for pound I would take these over the Thunderwolves as they are just so much more versatile, and probably less of a fire magnet.

[SamaNagol]

Bikes

TWC

Wolves

Swiftclaws

Speeders

 

In that order.

[Valerian]

Are bikes still a good unit to take, even with WS and BS 3?

 

Well the Bikes have Twin-linked bolters, which means you get to reroll misses; this offsets the BS3. With a WS3 the Swift Claws are still hitting most opponents (WS4, WS5, WS6) on a roll of 4+, just like they would if they were WS4, so there is no difference there. The only downside of the WS3, is that the enemy unit will hit them a little easier if they happen to be WS4. However, your Swift Claws will have an effective Toughness of 5 (for the Bike), which helps offset the fact that WS4 opponents will be hitting them a little easier (on a 3+). They will, however, be hitting with 4 Attacks on the charge, which is very nice for your very mobile assault unit.

 

In summary, they are definitely a good unit to take, and are still at a reasonable price.

 

I almost feel like saying forget Canis, run a squad of 5 with 2 TH/SS and 1 Frost Axe. You'll have more attacks and more face-crunching, :cuss-stomping power for 395.

 

Grius, IIRC only one of the TWC can be upgraded to have a special close combat weapon, so you won't be able to have two Thunderhammers and a Frost Axe in your unit. Any/all of them can get a Storm Shield, so you could get some of those, but at 30 points a pop...

 

Valerian

[SamaNagol]

They make Multi Melta Attack Bikes a huge waste of points.

[Valerian]

They make Multi Melta Attack Bikes a huge waste of points.

 

Not really. They still hit 50% of the time (16.66% worse than the old attack Bikes), and are 10 points cheaper than they used to be. You also get a 2 wound model and several extra attacks in the Bike Squad. Also, they can now be "hidden" in the Swift Claws pack, whereas I believe they used to have to run in their own squadrons in the old codex, which made them much more vulnerable. I wouldn't call them a huge waste of points at all.

 

Valerian

[Oldenhaller]

with thunderwolves people seem to be forgetting how cav work

 

They're fast....stupid fast and at T5 W2 Sv3+ they're tough as well.

 

Movement is 6" normal move, D6" fleet move (yup all cav get fleet automatically) and then 12" assault. With a 12" deployment thaat's between 31-36" into assault on the first turn from your own board edge...bikers and jump packers are just lagging behind and not quite as solid. Fenrisian wolves can keep up as they're beasts and have the same bonuses...probably worth running a mixed bag of the two so there's support for the cav when you arrive.

 

For mobile firepower you can't really beat a wing of speeders. Depending upon what you want to use them for there are limitless vcombinations you can trick them out with. I'm experimenting with assaultcannon/multi-meltas at the moment for combining both horde and anti tank capabilities. I have however recently run the joys of twin heavy flamers against nids and it was horrific.

 

~O

[Kenmichi]

Are bikes still a good unit to take, even with WS and BS 3?

 

Well the Bikes have Twin-linked bolters, which means you get to reroll misses; this offsets the BS3. With a WS3 the Swift Claws are still hitting most opponents (WS4, WS5, WS6) on a roll of 4+, just like they would if they were WS4, so there is no difference there. The only downside of the WS3, is that the enemy unit will hit them a little easier if they happen to be WS4. However, your Swift Claws will have an effective Toughness of 5 (for the Bike), which helps offset the fact that WS4 opponents will be hitting them a little easier (on a 3+). They will, however, be hitting with 4 Attacks on the charge, which is very nice for your very mobile assault unit.

 

In summary, they are definitely a good unit to take, and are still at a reasonable price.

 

Valerian

 

How about in terms of tank hunting, though? Is the Attack Bike subject to BS 3 as well? I haven't gotten the opportunity to open the new codex in person, which is why I'm asking. ;) Currently my planned list might, potentially, be short on anti-tank weaponry. So far my mechanized unit will have 1-2 Dreadnoughts, 2 Predators, a Whirlwind, and Land Raider [Crusader]. The Predators and Dreadnoughts will have their weapons magnetized so I can swap weapons based on what's ideal for the planned battle, as well as my Land Raider. But it would be nice to have some more dedicated fire support units. Personally, I prefer bikes but for the role I want them to play (tank hunting) I'm not sure they're the best option.