Help me work out a new list

[Martok]

Brothers,

 

I haven't actually seen the new dex yet so this is just from what I've read on the net.

 

I was planning on a foot slogging force but I read in these halls that this is not impossible but leaving the army open to fire is foolhardy. So my plan was to take everything in drop pods however after thinking about terminators they wouldnt fit the look of the force so... I am now leaning towards Blood Claws and Greyhunters in Rhinos led by my Wolf Lord and his Wolfgaurd Terminators in Landraider(not sure which type atm). This means I am lacking firepower but it should be a fast brutal game..

 

Who's seen the dex? Who thinks this is flawed? Let me know I've bought nothing as of yet and I don't want to until I am certain I have a viable and characterful way to take my wolves to war.

 

-Martok13

[Mantinel]

Actually Space Wolves Terminators can ride in Drop Pods as they don't trust teleports.

 

You can't go wrong with a few Grey Hunters squads in Rhinos and Terminators or Bloodclaws in one of the Land Raiders variant.

 

Also Wolf Scouts are pretty auto-choice and you might try Sky Claws or Long Fangs for some variety.

 

As for characters, for a meelee punch try Ragnar or a custom made Wolf Lord.

[Martok]

@Mantinel - Thanks for the input I was considering Ragnar as all the iconography for the new models appears to be his Great Company.

 

Well you've made me lean back towards drop pods not sure how the pointing would work out but something like 2 blood claw squads, 3 greyhunter squads, wolf guard and 2 long fang packs all in drop pods? Also how does splitting the wolfgaurd amongst your other packs work when deploying in drop pods? Is it still viable if not then the packs will lack a real punch and am I right in thinking you can't take power weapons in your packs like you used to?

 

-Martok13

[Mantinel]

I wouldn't advise playing Drop Pod list because it's hard to master and not viable against many armies. But it's only my opinion, as I prefer more conservative lists :-)

 

Also Bloodclaws are not really viable in new codex compared to godlike Greyhunters and especially not in Drop Pods. As now on you can have a one power weapon / fist in your packs, but for quite a price. Long Fangs in Drop Pod are not really good as you usually want to keep them in cover and shooting from the first turn, both not really doable via Drop Pod.

 

As for Wolf Guards you just make 3-10 man squad and before deployment you assign as many WG to your packs as you want.

[Martok]

@Mantinel - I appreciate the thoughts. So if I was to go for the drop pod idea then long fangs are no go and blood claws aren't viable so...

 

4-5 grey hunter packs, wolf gaurd pack (probably pretty large so when they are assigned to the grey hunters they are still a viable unit on thier own) and instead of long fangs two dreadnoughts so I have some fire power. All in drop pods (I want drop pods even if it is a hard tactic its an exciting one).

 

I know without the codex this is all academic but i think the points are about right with give or take on the number of Grey Hunter squads. I think as footsloggers the army would take to much of a pounding although I am still thinking about a rhino rush landraider spearhead with the same build out but with landraider essentially replacing the two dreads. Which do you think would play best? (i could eventually buy both sets of transport options for variation)

 

-Martok13

[Mantinel]

Well you also need to consider the size of your GH packs - you can have 9 GH with one special weapon and Wolf Guard or 10 GH with two special weapons. Footslogging isn't really thing you want to go with, at least not with some Fen. wolves to provide screening. Rhinos are pretty cheap for what they do but if you really tend to use Drop Pods, dreadnoughts are a way to go.

[dublindawg]

You may want to try a combinationn of drop pods and rhinos. With drop pods, 1/2 rounded up enter play at the start of your first turn. IMO this means taking at least 3 drop pods so that a unit or dread isn't left out there all alone to be crushed during the first turn. With rhinos advancing from the other side, the enemy has a choice of dealing with what just landed behind them or the rhinos racing up for an assault.

 

With the long fangs being cheaper in the new dex, they are a good option since they can still split their fire power softening up the enemy for your GH's.

[Martok]

@Mantinel - So if you take ten Grey Hunters you can't take a Wolf Guard with them? With the dreads what is thier standard load out in the new dex is it melta like C:SM? This would make the dreads cheap and essentially crucial for tank hunting coming down on the flanks.

 

@dublindawg - As I understand drop pod assault for C:SM you only deploy 1/2 the pods on first turn if you are deploying the full force in drop pods. Are you saying this is different in C:SW and you must deploy half of ANY drop pods taken in turn 1? (Alhtoug I may have misinterpreted the rule in C:SM) I'm personally a fan of the First wave idea as whatever army you go up against you can suit what you want on the table to reduce early casualties (Lots of tanks get the dreads down to take out the armour or if i'm facing lots of troops get the hunters down for close fire and quick assault). I like the idea of Long Fangs especially with split fire meaning thier load out can be quite funky also as my previous army only has heavy bolters so from the 6 odd devestator kits I have all the other weapons so financially it would be the easy option but I can't think of a build out that would the long fangs would suit in terms of theme (they would be odd on foot wihtt he rest of the army in rhinos and the sme with drop pods).

 

I think I will go with the drop pods although the rhino rush with a landraider would suit wolves I fear without the dreads I would be lacking firepower relying solely on the landraider...

 

Cheers for the input guys this is very helpful.

 

-Martok13

[Mantinel]

If you take 10 GH you can take a Wolf Guard with them but they won't fit in any standart transport (Drop Pod, Rhino or classic Land Raider) as our Drop Pods are only for 10 man instead of 12 for C:SM. You can take 9 GH + WG but then you're not eligible for second special weapon.

 

The Drop Pod assault rule works like this - half of your drop pods (rounded up) MUST come down on turn one, so if you take 3, two of them come down on turn one.

[Martok]

@Mantinel - Oh I see! odd that space wolves make thier pods 2 grav seats short.. must of spilt some home brew on that part of the STC. :blink: So essentially if I use pods I need to choose from more combat orientated (with WG) or more shooty with special weapon hmmm this will definitley wait till I've got the codex and crunching numbers but I think it will end up with the WG. What is the maximum size of Wolf Gaurd as if I take 9 man squads of Grey Hunters with a wolfgaurd each then to run a full drop pod of wolf gaurd I need 13 take the four for each squad leaving nine and then the wolf lord (does this cause any issues as the squad before splitting up is more than can fit in a drop pod?).

 

Also can you take more than 2 HQ's with wolves still and if so does it still work according to points used? I think I may only have the Wolf Lord but if it's as before then I will need more in 1500pts.

 

Drop Pod assault as I thought cheers for confirming.

 

-Martok13

[dublindawg]

The WG are an elite choice so you can field up to 3 units of 10 and break out WGPL's from 1 or all of the squads depending on how many you need. If you were to field 3 GH packs @ 9 and added WGPL you can still give them a drop pod or rhino. Taking 1 WG from each of the originating WG packs would leave you with 3 squad of 9. Since SW can take 4 HQ choices, you could then take 2 WBL and assign one each to 2 of ghe WG and then place your WL with the 3rd WG unit. It would look something like this:

 

GH: 9+WGPL=10

GH: 9+WGPL=10

GH: 9+WGPL=10

WG: 9+WBL=10

WG: 9+WBL=10

WG: 9+WL=10

 

The issue you will have to take into consideration with this is that if you were to give your WG TDA armor, the squads couldn't be placed in a rhino, only a DP. Now there has been different views on how many WG in TDA can fit into a DP. The way I read the rules for a DP, it's 10 models regardless of armor. Some argue that TDA counts as 2 models and then you can only have 5 WG in a pod. As I don't have the codex yet, I cannot say either way.

[Martok]

@dublindawg - Cheers for clearing up the HQ question. So am I to believe from this that WG are a maximum of 10 men per pack? If so taking multiple squads would mean I wouldnt have the FOC to take dreadnaughts which would be a major issue for me in terms of drop pod tactics (although it could become far more combat heavy which is tempting) however I could take 2 WG and put them in 2 GH packs then the other 2 GH packs could be led by IC's depending on points available and the two free spots in the WG DP could be used by WL and a wolf just for a bit of character :). Of course without a Codex as I said before this is all academic but getting a good idea of what is tactically viable will make working the numbers easier.

 

-Martok13

[dublindawg]

Yeah you would lose the dreads due to FOC restrictions. I prefer redunancy(sp) when it comes to dreads, I would personally take 2 dreads and a WG pack in DP's and have GHs in rhinos for quick re-deployments and objectives.

 

The WG size is 3-10 so if you were to take 2 WG or even 6 (max troop slots)out of the full pack, that is fine. Not sure if you can place a wolf in a DP with the WL to fill up that last open seat however.

[Martok]

@dublindawg - I know exactly what you mean about rhino's for the objectives my current C:SM force uses a firebase with assault marines supporting 2 rhino squads (the rhino's are the main objective takers) this is sort of why I don't want rhino's. I feel the second wave will give me the chance to drop my objective takers where they need to be whilst my first wave will cause a distraction on the hard flank hopefully drawing the enemy away from the objectives my second wave will attempt to secure.

 

The wolf in the DP isn't essential in the slightest but the idea of a WL with his wolf has always been a big part of wolves for me as it shows they have a bit more spirit then normal Astartes and have little idiosyncrasies like pets. (big man eating pets)

 

-Martok13