Wolf Standard overpowered?

[Karsekov]

Hey guys,

 

A couple of us were having a yarn while browsing through the new codex (ironic considering the Space wolves don't actually follow a codex) and with some to-ing and fro-ing we realised just how incredibly powerful the new rules for the wolf standard are. I am converting my current force from the old dex to the new one and am changing my troop choices from 2 BCs in rhinos and 2 GHs in rhinos to 4 squads of GHs in rhinos. All of them will be armed similarly including a wolf standard. These only cost 10 points and mean that I can reroll ANY result of a 1 for a combat phase. This is DEADLY considering you can attach characters and WG to the unit and reroll 1s to hit, reroll 1s to wound (hello powerfists), reroll 1s for armour saves and also if you have a MoW man in the squad (like me) who rolls only a 1(2) for his number of attacks this can be rerolled as well. As there is no 0-1 limit I am in effect able to have 4 wolf standards in my force. Personally this seems way too powerful for 10 points to me, especially if you have more than 1 in an army. Or am I mistaken and it does have a limitation somewhere that I've missed?

 

Your thoughts?

[Corver]

Yes, I'll be sticking banners on every pack!

[Oldenhaller]

Haven't read the entry for it in the new dex but I'm going to hold off on that one as if it sounds too good to be true it probably is. Would be awesome if it was the case as my opponent yesterday was shocked by the proliferation of 1's rolled. Can you put them in other squads also or just on grey hunters? Ragnar and his unit of wolf guard on the charge anyone...?

 

~O

[SamaNagol]

Considering it only works for one Assault phase, it's not that overpowered.

[Oldenhaller]

Is that an 'only as a one shot declare before the combat phase' or as a 'only on the first round of combat'? first one is jank....second would not be so bad for 10pts

 

~O

[Morticon]

I think its worth a lot more than 10 points. I wouldn't say over-powered, but I would say horribly, horribly undercosted.

The ability to reroll every 1, for attacks, wounds and saves is insane.

[Aeddon]

Wolf Standard also only works once per game. Not overpowered in the least in fact, could potentially be a waste of ten points.

[Wolf Guard Hengist]

Wolf Standard also only works once per game. Not overpowered in the least in fact, could potentially be a waste of ten points.

 

Thats for one standard, I think the general thought is that you can purchase more than one.

 

EDIT:-

 

From Warseer

 

"....One use only at any point in the game. Grants a re-roll to ANY rolls of 1 in the NEXT Assault Phase."

 

That reads to me you can use it for any roll, hit, wounds armour saves etc however one thing I am not clear on is if it is for the entire army or just the Standards squad.

[Wolfe]

Don't think these will ever be a waste of points, with 10 grey hunters swinging 30 attacks on a charge/counter charge you're gonna roll 5 ones, which once re rolled will give you more dice to throw for wounds which in turn equals more ones rolled for wounds which again can be re rolled. Then of course you get to re roll armour saves which should usually save 1/6 of your marines from dying, not to mention preventing that all too common "oh sweet jesus i rolled nothing but ones" happenstance which can more often then not make or break a game. All in all i think these are just too good not to take for 10 points. Should always be used on the first assault phase where you'll get the most use out of em i reckon. Your gonna kill more and die less.

[Oldenhaller]

Wolf Standard also only works once per game. Not overpowered in the least in fact, could potentially be a waste of ten points.

 

Thats for one standard, I think the general thought is that you can purchase more than one.

 

EDIT:-

 

From Warseer

 

"....One use only at any point in the game. Grants a re-roll to ANY rolls of 1 in the NEXT Assault Phase."

 

That reads to me you can use it for any roll, hit, wounds armour saves etc however one thing I am not clear on is if it is for the entire army or just the Standards squad.

 

As an aside which occured to me...would that also mean you could re-roll any ones which came from rolling for leadership checks, armour saves from fearless auto-wounds, initiative checks for pursuit/fleeing or consolodation?

 

That'd make my day :blink:

 

~O

[Massaen]

They all occour in the assault phase and it says all 1's in a single assault phase... so i would say yes

[Brother Amarel]

Wolf Standard also only works once per game. Not overpowered in the least in fact, could potentially be a waste of ten points.

:blink:

 

I'm with Mortarion on this one, even if it cost 25pts it would still be an item well worth considering, at 10pts it's an auto-include on every GH unit.

[AdeptusDavidus]

Would a Wolf Standard also allow you to reroll 1s that came up on your rerolls?

 

I would guess no, but I don't have the Codex in hand (yet...), and the wording above, "grants a reroll to any roll of 1", could be taken that way. On the other hand, it specifies that it grants a reroll, so the counterargument would be that it lets you reroll per task, so to speak, rather than per die.

 

But then, I'm new to 40k. To my limited knowledge, exploding rerolls isn't a feature of the game, generally.

[Darkangeldentist]

I saw this item in the book and my mouth dropped open. It's not overpowered in the usual sense. It won't automatically win you combats but it is amazingly good. To-hit rolls, wounds, armour, initiative, consolidation and of course terrain as well. There's a pretty large stacking effect from all those situations for potential rerolls.

 

I would have said it was fine if it was one per army or say 25pts.

 

But 10pts...10pts! It's not just my power armour that's green. :)

 

Edit: Note that it says in the rulebook that you can never re-roll a re-roll. So you couldn't re-roll any re-rolls that came up ones.

[Oldenhaller]

Would a Wolf Standard also allow you to reroll 1s that came up on your rerolls?

 

I would guess no, but I don't have the Codex in hand (yet...), and the wording above, "grants a reroll to any roll of 1", could be taken that way. On the other hand, it specifies that it grants a reroll, so the counterargument would be that it lets you reroll per task, so to speak, rather than per die.

 

But then, I'm new to 40k. To my limited knowledge, exploding rerolls isn't a feature of the game, generally.

 

in the rulebook it's got can't re-roll a re-roll as a specific rule for the game

 

~L

[SamaNagol]

It says you can re-roll any dice roll of a 1. It does not say you can only re-roll it once. If it comes up as a 1 again. Re-roll it again. It is not limited in the rule.

[Toasterfree]

It says you can re-roll any dice roll of a 1. It does not say you can only re-roll it once. If it comes up as a 1 again. Re-roll it again. It is not limited in the rule.

you can NEVER re-roll a re-roll for the same thing. there are no infinite loops in WH40k

[Oldenhaller]

yup

 

The second score counts...and no single dice can be re-rolled more than once regardless of the source

 

~O

[SamaNagol]

Good spot. Thanks.

[Vlk]

Wolf Standard also only works once per game. Not overpowered in the least in fact, could potentially be a waste of ten points.

 

But it would be a waste of just ten points while if it saves a single grey hunter or helps to kill a single enemy (who is not an ork boy, a gaunt or a guardsman) it has just paid for itself.

 

I believe it's a great buy, almost all my GH squads will have one (except for the objective holding one).

[Oldenhaller]

I'm glad they've gotten rid of the shot in the flag rule for this edition otherwise this'd be quite brutal for all of our hunter squads

 

~O

[Toasterfree]

I'm glad they've gotten rid of the shot in the flag rule for this edition otherwise this'd be quite brutal for all of our hunter squads

 

~O

what is this?

[Oldenhaller]

the targetting rules previously allowed for a person to be targetted if you could just see his banner. There's a classic TASOALR where a marine takes a round in the hereldry. By specifying that you can't be shot in the banner thgis problem is removed.

 

~O

[Roguemarine]

omg, saying that this is a waste of 10 points is like saying the wulfen upgrade is going to be a waste of points...which btw is NOT

[WG Vrox]

That reads to me you can use it for any roll, hit, wounds armour saves etc however one thing I am not clear on is if it is for the entire army or just the Standards squad.

 

The ability is only for the unit who owns the banner.