eyeslikethunder Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I think its worth a lot more than 10 points. I wouldn't say over-powered, but I would say horribly, horribly undercosted. The ability to reroll every 1, for attacks, wounds and saves is insane. how about difficult terrain tests when assaulting or dangerous terrain tests when assaulting Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2122366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar the great Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 brothers not having a chance yesterday to read the dex (everyone else was reading it). what page is this on so hopefully tomorrow I can have a good look Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2122378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard Hengist Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 That reads to me you can use it for any roll, hit, wounds armour saves etc however one thing I am not clear on is if it is for the entire army or just the Standards squad. The ability is only for the unit who owns the banner. Cheers for clearing that up for me Vrox. The implications of the banner are awesome, stick an IC or WG with a SS etc in the unit and go tackle those big nasties, take those hits on the chin and re roll those failed SS saves which come up 1 and you got yourself an awesome boost for a round of combat. As said before not overpowered but a steal for 10 points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2122383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 how about difficult terrain tests when assaulting or dangerous terrain tests when assaulting Since you trigger the banner at the beginning of the assult phase yes, that would include re-rolling 1's for movement. The banner just gets better and better eh.. what page is this on so hopefully tomorrow I can have a good look Page 64 WG Vrox Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2122384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunchb0x Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I am sorry, but how is that "toooo powerfull" ? Its legal. Its not powerful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2122422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 To direct quote the important part: Once per game, a unit that includes a wolf standard...For the duration of the next Assault Phase, all models in that unit may re-roll any dice rolls of a 1. There is also no specification as to how many wolf standards an army may include. That means every Grey Hunter squad you field may pay the 10 pts for a wolf standard: One Grey Hunter may have the honour of carrying..., similarily worded to: One Grey Hunter may take: (ref Mark of the Wulfen). DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2122570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsekov Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 I think some others on this board have it. Perhaps I was a little overzealous in saying that it is overpowered, I should have said it was undercosted instead. For me it's an auto include as making just one armour save makes the thing worthwhile at 10 points. I plan to give it to all my squads, but one in particular will be a squad with an attached IC armed with a power fist and Storm shield and also a WG armed powerfist. This unit will then go monstrous creature hunting as I effectively don't need to have Beastslayer and can take Saga of the Bear instead for the IC. Bye bye Daemon prince, bye bye carnifex etc. Even though it lasts just one assault phase it will almost always make its points back, and this may even be useful for the morale checks too. I'm not sure about this part but if my unit was up against something too big for it to handle and I am forced to take a morale check for losing combat if I roll a 6 and a 1, I can reroll the 1 and have the chance to "fail" the morale check and disengage. Handy considering we dont have combat tactics. They might address this with an FAQ later on, but I think its not overpowered, but definately undercosted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2122837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 That reads to me you can use it for any roll, hit, wounds armour saves etc however one thing I am not clear on is if it is for the entire army or just the Standards squad. The ability is only for the unit who owns the banner. Cheers for clearing that up for me Vrox. The implications of the banner are awesome, stick an IC or WG with a SS etc in the unit and go tackle those big nasties, take those hits on the chin and re roll those failed SS saves which come up 1 and you got yourself an awesome boost for a round of combat. As said before not overpowered but a steal for 10 points. A WG would get the benefit- an IC would not, RAW, as an IC counts as a seperate unit while in assault. And for a one use only item that only affects a couple of rolls a round, Id say its only slightly undercosted- Id have put it at 15-20pts. A good deal, and Ill probly field one, and only one, in my army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2122852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsekov Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 Ah, I wasn't aware of that, thanks for clearing that up. Oh well, it still would be worthwhile considering the number of 1s I seem to consistently roll. Actually, i have another question. Considering the re-rolls are done in the assault phase and for all rolls that I make of a 1, I could potentially reroll the damage table result as well- e.g I'm in combat with a dreadnought and I penetrate, I roll a 1 for damage result, I would then be able to re-roll that as well wouldn't I? That's just nasty. Especially considering in the last 3 games I have played in the past 6 months (not enough time for it unfortunatley) I have penetrated 5 different vehicles in assault a total of 8 times and the best that I have come away with is a weapon destroyed- not even an immobilised result. Talk about frustrating. This little thing could be a godsend for me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2122886 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForTheLion Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Brother wolves, It sounds like a very decent item. And im sure you will use it well in the extermination of the Heretic, the Mutant and the Alien! As far as rerolls go i had a talk with a local GW staff and he gave me a good example. You got a squad of "x" with chaplain attached to it. You charge some1 and get to reroll youre to hit dice. From that point on no additional rerolls for the to hit can be made, as it would be in violation of the Rule book. Hope that helped ^_^ and enjoy the candies! Edit@ DV8 : It says one wolf dude ;) it dosent say any, so wouldnt that mean that only per per squad? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2122899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Edit@ DV8 : It says one wolf dude :huh: it dosent say any, so wouldnt that mean that only per per squad? In our current codex it meant One Per Army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2122947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucku Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Definitely not a waste. I'll have one in each GH squad and use it the first time I get a chance (will keep casualties down as I will kill more enemy in melee and make more armor saves in return). It means my GHs will maintain their numbers longer into the game, always a good thing and for 10 points (!!!) a no-brainer. @ Grey Mage - although the IC is attacked as a separate unit in close combat they officially join the unit at the end of the Movement Phase (the 2" cohesion rule) until the next turn. If an IC was not in the unit how would a Chaplain afford it's squad mates Litanies of Hate (or whatever it's called these days) and other special abilities conferred by ICs on their joined units in close combat? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2122961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiltedMarine Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I'm with Grey Mage- I'm definitely using one, but only one. Using more than one doesn't seem to me to be in the spirit of the army. Plus, modeling one up and finding a way to transport it with the rest of the army will be logistically... interesting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2122970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Definitely not a waste. I'll have one in each GH squad and use it the first time I get a chance (will keep casualties down as I will kill more enemy in melee and make more armor saves in return). It means my GHs will maintain their numbers longer into the game, always a good thing and for 10 points (!!!) a no-brainer. @ Grey Mage - although the IC is attacked as a separate unit in close combat they officially join the unit at the end of the Movement Phase (the 2" cohesion rule) until the next turn. If an IC was not in the unit how would a Chaplain afford it's squad mates Litanies of Hate (or whatever it's called these days) and other special abilities conferred by ICs on their joined units in close combat? I dont know... I find it a hole in the system that is ignored by general convention. However Ill give the relevant quote from page 49, under INDEPENDENT CHARACTERS & ASSAULTS, 2nd paragraph. When the attacks are resolved, however, independent characters are always treated as a seperate single-model unit (as described under Multiple Combats on page 41) even though they have joined a unit. My personal interpretation is that this is only for the allocation of attacks and wounds, but that isnt what it strait out says. Thus Im willing to be flexable with my opponents- and why I always field HQs with retinues if I can. Sadly, that soon wont be an option for any of my armies. *sighs*. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2122977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spazmonkey Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Heres a question, if you have a unit of say 15 blood claws with a wolf priest, does that mean during that assault phase you can reroll the misses using the wolf priest, and then re roll any 1's rolled again from there because of the banner? Edit: sorry is this 1 standard/banner for the whole army, or a standard per unit? So can you have two standards on two units for 20 points? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2122987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgrim Blackwolf Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 You can't re-roll a re-roll and the banner can only be taken one per pack on Grey Hunter packs. It also only effects the unit with the banner. The banner is undercosted but not overpowered and I will follow Grey Mage and Killted Marine on this one, as essentially the GH with the banner is holding the Great Company's banner. I don't think there should be more than one banner in the army as there would be quite a few arguments between the GH packs as to whose flag was bigger :huh: . Cheers Thorgrim Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2122996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Not overpowered. One time use and spammed those points add up, in a single pack, may not see light of day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2123016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucku Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 I don't have the codex handy. Is the banner really the Great Company Banner? Seems kind of low-powered compared to other Company/Chapter banners. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2123055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coverfire Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 I don't have the codex handy. Is the banner really the Great Company Banner? Seems kind of low-powered compared to other Company/Chapter banners. Even if it were just the Company Banner there still means only 1 per force. Having several Company Banners in a single army is a little cheap... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2123077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 I don't have the codex handy. Is the banner really the Great Company Banner? Seems kind of low-powered compared to other Company/Chapter banners. Even if it were just the Company Banner there still means only 1 per force. Having several Company Banners in a single army is a little cheap... It's not the Company Banner, it is a Wolf Standard; you are allowed to take one as an upgrade for any/every Grey Hunter pack. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2123094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard Dan Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 From what I remember the wording to be, Valerian is correct. You may take one for each unit. I do not know about a IC being able to take advantage of the standard. Both arguments make sense. It is a wolf standard not a company standard. Plus company standards usually affect units within a certain radius correct? It would not be a company standard if all the units in the company could not take advantage of its benefits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2123105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wena Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 This banner seems to almost make up for the fact that we lost Runic charms - still would rather have runic charms though this banner can be a game changer at certain key moments I think... I need to get a longer look at the codex tomorrow - all in all -I am really excited for some new models and army lists :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2123125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGC Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 I haven't seen the new dex yet so I will have to wait for the 3rd, but the banner does seem to be a really tasty piece of gear. As for the comments re: only taking one. I would have thought that if the banner cost more or had a wider effect then yeh, maybe, more of an army standard or such. But as it is only 10pts and only effects the unit carrying it I see it more of a unit's 'Standard', imagine the U.S cavalry or similar. Each unit carried a different flag / emblem for rallying puposes, morale etc so for GHs who have survived their time as BCs and bonded as a fluid pack full of righteous pride, carrying a banner I feel is really fluffy Just my opinion DGC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2123231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 ... Man. I may seriously have to look at taking several different types of Wolf armies, now... *sigh* My pocketbook gets emptier and emptier. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2123467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgrim Blackwolf Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Apologies for the confusion, as it was late and I'm full of the 'Freshers Flu at the moment ;) . I meant to say I would use the wolf standard like the standard from the old codex. Basically having the honour of bearing the standard is a reward for the the packs heroic deeds and it is given to a different pack every battle by the wolf lord. Which is the reason why I would only have one in the army. However, I do like DGC's idea as well. Cheers Thorgrim Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179329-wolf-standard-overpowered/page/2/#findComment-2123478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.