Dionysis Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I've heard marvelous things about the rifleman dreadnought, and am considering putting one in my army. As with adding anything to an army, one must make sure that it compliments one's strategy and style of gameplay. As my army is mechanized, which is to say that everything can either move at least 12" per turn or has a dedicated transport, the rifleman would not fall into this, but would fulfill an 'escort' role for my rhinos while popping lightly armored vehicles from afar. Also to note: this would be in a 2000 point list. How are you making use of them? What have you seen them do? What do you find them weak at? Or where they are particularly strong? Thank you for your time and consideration. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allerka Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Might help if you specified what a "rifleman" Dreadnought consisted of. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2122456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cydrone Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Probably 2xTL Autocannons Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2122473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Probably 2xTL Autocannons yep, looks like this http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/sdfmacross/adr-04-mk10.jpg I've said in a few threads that I think its a great build. AutoCannons are the premier anti-transport weapon in the game, only being beaten out by LasCannons on AV13+. In addition, they work well as MCs killers or knocking down heavy infantry. Plus they're not horrible expensive either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2122504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I like the idea of using one. I ran a TLLC/ML Dread last weekend, and it worked well. I figure having both arms being twin-linked would help greatly. The real obstacle in using them is the fact that they don't have stanard parts for them yet, unless you sink money into the expensive Forgeworld parts, or the equally expensive Planetstrike Bastion bitz. You could convert up a couple by using a ML arm with some IG autocannons, but that's just such a pain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2122517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Chaos_Brute Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I like the idea if there are 4+ dreads in the list. Otherwise the loss of Dread HtH ability means it can be tarpitted easily. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2122549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionysis Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 Sorry about not explaining what a rifleman dread was. Thank you for explaining for me. I like the idea if there are 4+ dreads in the list. Otherwise the loss of Dread HtH ability means it can be tarpitted easily. Ideally, it won't be tarpitted at all. Being the Rhino escort, there will always be at least 20 marines in the immediate vicinity who can jump out and supply some firepower if necessary. As for the modeling bit: I was just going to convert the twin-linked lascannon arms. If you cut off the angular tips and free-hand some detailing they can easily pass for autocannons. Though a bit of greenstuff-conversion wouldn't hurt, I will admit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2122593 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I like the idea if there are 4+ dreads in the list. Otherwise the loss of Dread HtH ability means it can be tarpitted easily. Agreed but the answer to that is an Ironclad. The two working together give you nasty long range firepower and a very good tarpit/assault unit that can handle any AV14 that starts to get close. As for the OP's idea of making it an escort, I think it works just fine. Its doing the job that the Predator should be doing, if it could move and shoot properly. With the gun's themselves, I saw someone do some work using the IG AutoCannon sprues and the TL LasCannon army. Looked fairly decent. The other Gun Dread configuration I think is nasty is the Plasma Cannon/Missile Launcher. Its less about taking out armor but more about killing MCs or any kind of infantry. Depends on your needs really. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2122668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allerka Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Yeah, I've got one too. Ordered the FW parts, they're less than $20. Only used it a couple times so far, but it works pretty nice. Getting stuck in HtH is hardly a concern if you're moving your army right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2122794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Remiel Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 yep, looks like this http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/sdfmacross/adr-04-mk10.jpg I've said in a few threads that I think its a great build. AutoCannons are the premier anti-transport weapon in the game, only being beaten out by LasCannons on AV13+. In addition, they work well as MCs killers or knocking down heavy infantry. Plus they're not horrible expensive either. Actually, the RFL-3N Rifleman from Battletech sported an autocannon and a large laser on each arm. IIRC, twin autocannons were not an available variant (but it has been a while since I perused my Battletech books so I could be wrong). That aside, I always liked the twin weapons look of the Rifleman and am pretty happy a SM Dread can sport twin-ACs on each arm. You do not even have to be Dark Angels for that configuration. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2122797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 yep, looks like this http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/sdfmacross/adr-04-mk10.jpg I've said in a few threads that I think its a great build. AutoCannons are the premier anti-transport weapon in the game, only being beaten out by LasCannons on AV13+. In addition, they work well as MCs killers or knocking down heavy infantry. Plus they're not horrible expensive either. Actually, the RFL-3N Rifleman from Battletech sported an autocannon and a large laser on each arm. IIRC, twin autocannons were not an available variant (but it has been a while since I perused my Battletech books so I could be wrong). That aside, I always liked the twin weapons look of the Rifleman and am pretty happy a SM Dread can sport twin-ACs on each arm. You do not even have to be Dark Angels for that configuration. The Rifleman IIC used a pair of Clan ER Large Lasers OR a Pair of Ultra Autocannon 10s. Its a wonderful deal for 125pts. Good deal for mobile fire support, though I dont use one normally because my dreadnaughts are expected to assault when they get there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2122959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 It was first called a Phalanx in Macross, then the Radar X in Robotech before it was called the Rifleman in BattleTech. Either way, the MkI version did have 4 autocannons while the MkII had 4 lasers. BattleTech combined the two with the laser/autocannon arms. On a 40k note, it was the Dark Angles and their Mortis pattern Dreadnought that fluff-wise brough use all the "Rifleman" Dread. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2123380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 This loadout is especially effective against armies like Chaos marines who rely heavily on their rhinos, but will often have less squads due to the use of cult units. Pop even one rhino too soon and it can screw them over. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2123384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 This loadout is especially effective against armies like Chaos marines who rely heavily on their rhinos, but will often have less squads due to the use of cult units. Pop even one rhino too soon and it can screw them over. Also works nicely against Chimeras. The ability to move yourself 6" before firing allows you to get the side armor shots you'll need to pen the bastards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2123472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 BTW, any of you have practical experience with this kind of dreadnought? Do you guys put extra armor on it? I'm imagining there's really no need, but then again it might allow it to move and run out of LoS or to lock something down in assault, even if it gets stunned. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2123506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Do you guys put extra armor on it? I'm imagining there's really no need, but then again it might allow it to move and run out of LoS or to lock something down in assault, even if it gets stunned. I'd treat it the same way I'd treat a Predator with the added bonus of being able to move 6" each turn. I wouldn't buy E. Armor for a Predator so I'd leave it at home on these guys. Part of their awesomeness is their cheap price tag. If you start adding upgrades left and right, they become point sinks. The biggest weakness of a squad like this is getting assaulted. With 1 attack @ S6, its not going to do much and more importantly its not going to be shooting. This means it needs some kind of HtH support to screen it. Another Dreadnought, Tactical Squad, hell even Scouts could do the job. Think the same way that an IG player would, tossing a squad at an incoming assault unit to hold it up while you keep shooting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2123754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 With 1 attack @ S6, its not going to do much and more importantly its not going to be shooting. Don't all Dreads start out with their base 2A at S6, and only lose one when they lose an arm. Represents the Dread smashing and bashing with the weapons and/or feet in CC, yes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2123805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 With 1 attack @ S6, its not going to do much and more importantly its not going to be shooting. Don't all Dreads start out with their base 2A at S6, and only lose one when they lose an arm. Represents the Dread smashing and bashing with the weapons and/or feet in CC, yes? I thought they were 2A with the DCCW and if you removed that, they went to 1A and S6. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2123813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 No, even without the DCCW, the Dreadnought has 2 Attacks. The same way the Veterans in a command squad don't lose any attacks even if you trade away their weapons for a Meltagun and a Storm Shield. The fact that they get an extra attack for having two CCWs doesn't mean they lose one for not having any. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2123873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 With 1 attack @ S6, its not going to do much and more importantly its not going to be shooting. Don't all Dreads start out with their base 2A at S6, and only lose one when they lose an arm. Represents the Dread smashing and bashing with the weapons and/or feet in CC, yes? I thought they were 2A with the DCCW and if you removed that, they went to 1A and S6. That is only for Chaos dreads because of their 3 base attacks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2124183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 With 1 attack @ S6, its not going to do much and more importantly its not going to be shooting. Don't all Dreads start out with their base 2A at S6, and only lose one when they lose an arm. Represents the Dread smashing and bashing with the weapons and/or feet in CC, yes? I thought they were 2A with the DCCW and if you removed that, they went to 1A and S6. That is only for Chaos dreads because of their 3 base attacks. EVERYONE STOP GANGING UP ON ME! ;) Kidding, thanks though I didn't know that. It makes them a little better in HtH but my point still stands. Protect them with an assault unit. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2124253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Agreed, Dreadnaughts are, IMHO best used in a footslogging or DPing army that will normally be advancing on the enemy- Like SWs and BTs. But of course, all marines can use mobile fire support, those two just happen to use this one best, IMHO. I wish BT could take them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2124456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhorneHunter57x Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Beh. We Templars get cheap venerables. However, I do like the variant. I can imagine how good it would be against DE and Rhino rush SMs/CSMs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2124475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jando Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I use AC HW Teams in my IG army and swear by them as anti-transport units. I pay 75 points for 3 ACs (6 shots) @ BS 3. You're paying 125 points (Space Wolves cost) for 2 ACs, Twin-linked at BS4, plus AV 12 and you get to move 6". But above all else, they simply look amazing. Check out this pic: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/spacemarines/m...annon-dread.jpg Are you kidding me? Why wouldn't you run them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2127722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caldera Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Is this worth it on a Venerable for vanilla Marines, or should I stick to a plasma cannon for him? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179354-rifleman-dreadnought/#findComment-2128974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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