Forget it, I'm done

[Hrathnar Flintfang]

You know its hard for me to get up to the closest game shop, so I suppose I should have been more persistant in asking questions about the new dex.

 

When I heard that Ven. Dreds were no longer HQs i was a bit upset, but ok with that. After all it seemed like they were adding plenty of new units, and while it meant I would have to get rid of a dred in my current army the shift in my current list the HQ rule was changed anyways so my two main HQs were more or less able to stay the same.

 

No big loss, I could just buy a bit more wargear.

 

Then I found out that apparently they would not let you take a frost axe for a wolf lord who was in TDA armor for whatever dumb reason they came up with.

 

Whatever, probably a typo anyways.

 

THEN I found out that, while drop pods were getting thrown in, They and nella land raiders were both going to be somehow smaller inside than those of codex boys and so I wouldn't be able to fit as much inside of them.

 

Doesn't phase me, I like Rhinos/razorbacks and LRCs anyways.

 

But then, six days from release, someone told me that WG were apparently no longer available as Retinue.

 

WHAT... THE... HELL?

 

Never mind any fluff BS that might come up for this, the idea that I would no longer be able to support my current army list, or even a variation of it, simply because I am limited to three elite slots is a major turn off to the game by itself. In the previous codex Wolf Guard were everywhere for me. They led each squad, they hung out with my wolf lord in my LRC, they palled around with my RP on his bike. Sure I took a unit of BC and one of GH but those were both just filler and extra wounds for the WG anyways. and the whole lynchpin of my army was the ability to drive my LRC covered by storm caller up to whatever I deemed the biggest threat while my biker RP and his buddies followed behind, ready to break off and hit a secondary threat at a moments notice, and my scouts waited to come in from the other table edge with THEIR WG leader and raise some hell, all at the cost of one Elite slot!

 

Without the ability to take that Retinue I am for all intents, perposes and effects unable to use literally half of the army I now have, and would be forced to buy all sorts of things and spend months playing around with the codex hoping I found something else I liked. Please keep in mind that I had to limit myself to one meal a day all week just to save up the cash I was going to use on this damn book in the first place, and now they are trying to tell me that I will have to re-evaluate my whole play style from square one and repurchase everything to continue playing? I understand that Minis are the cash cow for GW, but I for one don't like being forced into purchases like this, especially when I would have gladly gotten ahold of the new kits and minis over time as I could afford them. I also don't like it that my army of choice no longer offers anything even remotely close to the methods I enjoyed with the old dex.

 

So the game doesn't run the way I want it to anymore, and I would have to all but starve myself for months just to make changes that I don't really want to make if I did indeed want to keep playing.

 

What's the point? Brothers I am sorry to say I will most likely be leaving the hobby for good at this point, mothballing or selling my minis (most likely the former, I can't paint and some of my chops look horrible) and then waiting it out to see if one of the higher ups at GW dies and gets replaced by someone with half a brain. There is only so much bad design a man can take, especially after so much excitement and anticipation! I wish you all the blessings of Russ, and promise to stop buy and pester you still every once in a while, and perhaps even put out a story or two now that I won't be working on painting all the time.

 

I am sorry in advance for the rant, but it needed to be said.

[Growler67]

So you haven't ACTUALLY seen the Dex to verify all of these yet? You couldn't possibly consider adapting your play style or lists to conform to a game that is ever evolving and changing? Quit if you choose or accept the challenge to adapt. Stay or go is completely up to you. I play when I can and don't tourney at all. I'm mostly in it for the models and reading the fluff. It's a hobby and not a life choice and so entertainment value is what is determined by an individual. If it no longer has value to you then good luck in whatever you choose as a replacement.

[Massaen]

like wolf guard - take logan! He means you can have 6 units of wolf guard if you wish! The fact you have 4 HQ spaces means you should not have a problem getting him into the chart and the fact you want a wolf lord with frost blade... well count him as logan! problem fixed... bear in mind i have 2 kids, 3 mortgages, a wife and the hobby to pay for and i now have 20 odd wulfen i can't use!

 

I have seen this game change plently over the last 20 years and have numerous units in the mothball draw and not all have come back again. Its a game - if your this stressed you should give it up - its meant to be fun...

[Skaldnir]

Well, i'm just a bloodclaw but sorry to see you go. Now i can understand your point of view, but couldn't you just talk to your local gaming group about a house rule for retinues? For example: for every hq in an army you can nominate one squad to have a bodyguard rule. Essentially treating said hq like a very expensive squad upgrade. Just some food for thought.(not to mention it benefits all armies so there shouldn't be a bunch of fuss about it)

[Hrathnar Flintfang]

So you haven't ACTUALLY seen the Dex to verify all of these yet? You couldn't possibly consider adapting your play style or lists to conform to a game that is ever evolving and changing? Quit if you choose or accept the challenge to adapt. Stay or go is completely up to you. I play when I can and don't tourney at all. I'm mostly in it for the models and reading the fluff. It's a hobby and not a life choice and so entertainment value is what is determined by an individual. If it no longer has value to you then good luck in whatever you choose as a replacement.

 

Exactly, and for me the entertainment value is gone.

 

I remember when i was twelve years old and I bought my old copy of Rouge Trader from the second hand book shop near my house for about 40 bucks. It was alot of money, alot of saving, and alot of "choose your path adventure" books I had to wait on getting. That was ok though, because it was fun and interesting and different. it was something I had never really seen before and it sparked my imagination in ways I'm still feeling today. I still regret letting some kid in high school talk me into selling it to him for forty bucks, but then I regret most of high school anyways.

 

But this new codex, the whole direction of GW in 5th for that matter, is absolutely antithime to what I felt made the game fun back then. When I started to take the time and made an actual, conscious effort to start up a wolves army it took alot of time and effort and money I didn't have before I figured out what I liked about the game and what I liked to do in it. It took me years to be happy with what I had and find something I could put out every game with a smile on my face. And I was willing to adapt to this new dex too! I was willing to make a few minor changes here and there if I hd to in order to play it, perhaps changing around, adding, subtracting, I was willing to play iwth it and continue evolving my army.

 

But if I can't play a basic game anymore because the linchpin of my whole strategy wont' work and I have to go back to square one, I just don't see the point. That is just too much time and too much energy and too much effort for something that has somehow managed to systematically take away EVERYTHING I loved about playing wolves one rule or unit at a time. Its like someone got into my head and figured out everything I love about this game and then just decided out of nowhere to remove those specific things from the game while adding in a bunch of moronic named characters like ragnar and Logan and forcing them on us as 'keys to an army' or some other crap like that. That isn't how I want to play, and its not worth it to me to try. GW has followed in the feted footstepds of Wizards of the coast, taking perfectly good products and crapping all over them for no apparent reasons. Sadly I think 40K will be joining 4th Edition D&D and these new sets of Magic as games I just don't want to deal with anymore. Its one thing to adapt, its another to continue trying when someone magically ripped all the fun out. I still have to finish school and try to find a job in this crappy economy.

 

As for Logan, I would rather not play than take him simply on principal. I have always dreamed of an all-termie army but if it means buying into this stupid 'named Hero hammer' crap that GW is slinging I would rather just walk away from the whole fiasco. I always hated the idea of using characters like Logan and Ragnar, and now that they seem to be the central focus it seems an opportune moment to bow out.

[kittenofdeath]

So you haven't ACTUALLY seen the Dex to verify all of these yet? You couldn't possibly consider adapting your play style or lists to conform to a game that is ever evolving and changing? Quit if you choose or accept the challenge to adapt. Stay or go is completely up to you. I play when I can and don't tourney at all. I'm mostly in it for the models and reading the fluff. It's a hobby and not a life choice and so entertainment value is what is determined by an individual. If it no longer has value to you then good luck in whatever you choose as a replacement.

 

Exactly, and for me the entertainment value is gone.

 

I remember when i was twelve years old and I bought my old copy of Rouge Trader from the second hand book shop near my house for about 40 bucks. It was alot of money, alot of saving, and alot of "choose your path adventure" books I had to wait on getting. That was ok though, because it was fun and interesting and different. it was something I had never really seen before and it sparked my imagination in ways I'm still feeling today. I still regret letting some kid in high school talk me into selling it to him for forty bucks, but then I regret most of high school anyways.

 

But this new codex, the whole direction of GW in 5th for that matter, is absolutely antithime to what I felt made the game fun back then. When I started to take the time and made an actual, conscious effort to start up a wolves army it took alot of time and effort and money I didn't have before I figured out what I liked about the game and what I liked to do in it. It took me years to be happy with what I had and find something I could put out every game with a smile on my face. And I was willing to adapt to this new dex too! I was willing to make a few minor changes here and there if I hd to in order to play it, perhaps changing around, adding, subtracting, I was willing to play iwth it and continue evolving my army.

 

But if I can't play a basic game anymore because the linchpin of my whole strategy wont' work and I have to go back to square one, I just don't see the point. That is just too much time and too much energy and too much effort for something that has somehow managed to systematically take away EVERYTHING I loved about playing wolves one rule or unit at a time. Its like someone got into my head and figured out everything I love about this game and then just decided out of nowhere to remove those specific things from the game while adding in a bunch of moronic named characters like ragnar and Logan and forcing them on us as 'keys to an army' or some other crap like that. That isn't how I want to play, and its not worth it to me to try. GW has followed in the feted footstepds of Wizards of the coast, taking perfectly good products and crapping all over them for no apparent reasons. Sadly I think 40K will be joining 4th Edition D&D and these new sets of Magic as games I just don't want to deal with anymore. Its one thing to adapt, its another to continue trying when someone magically ripped all the fun out. I still have to finish school and try to find a job in this crappy economy.

 

As for Logan, I would rather not play than take him simply on principal. I have always dreamed of an all-termie army but if it means buying into this stupid 'named Hero hammer' crap that GW is slinging I would rather just walk away from the whole fiasco. I always hated the idea of using characters like Logan and Ragnar, and now that they seem to be the central focus it seems an opportune moment to bow out.

 

 

the named characters are fun, and give a nice bonus, but i can take one out with a normal wolf lord tooled right anyday, its only 'named hero hammer' for the people who dont know how to deal with that kind of stuff, and you realy should wait until you see the dex first, i guarantee you can find a fun list in the new dex, i've been making tons of lists for fun, barely any of which use named characters

[Hrathnar Flintfang]

So you haven't ACTUALLY seen the Dex to verify all of these yet? You couldn't possibly consider adapting your play style or lists to conform to a game that is ever evolving and changing? Quit if you choose or accept the challenge to adapt. Stay or go is completely up to you. I play when I can and don't tourney at all. I'm mostly in it for the models and reading the fluff. It's a hobby and not a life choice and so entertainment value is what is determined by an individual. If it no longer has value to you then good luck in whatever you choose as a replacement.

 

Exactly, and for me the entertainment value is gone.

 

I remember when i was twelve years old and I bought my old copy of Rouge Trader from the second hand book shop near my house for about 40 bucks. It was alot of money, alot of saving, and alot of "choose your path adventure" books I had to wait on getting. That was ok though, because it was fun and interesting and different. it was something I had never really seen before and it sparked my imagination in ways I'm still feeling today. I still regret letting some kid in high school talk me into selling it to him for forty bucks, but then I regret most of high school anyways.

 

But this new codex, the whole direction of GW in 5th for that matter, is absolutely antithime to what I felt made the game fun back then. When I started to take the time and made an actual, conscious effort to start up a wolves army it took alot of time and effort and money I didn't have before I figured out what I liked about the game and what I liked to do in it. It took me years to be happy with what I had and find something I could put out every game with a smile on my face. And I was willing to adapt to this new dex too! I was willing to make a few minor changes here and there if I hd to in order to play it, perhaps changing around, adding, subtracting, I was willing to play iwth it and continue evolving my army.

 

But if I can't play a basic game anymore because the linchpin of my whole strategy wont' work and I have to go back to square one, I just don't see the point. That is just too much time and too much energy and too much effort for something that has somehow managed to systematically take away EVERYTHING I loved about playing wolves one rule or unit at a time. Its like someone got into my head and figured out everything I love about this game and then just decided out of nowhere to remove those specific things from the game while adding in a bunch of moronic named characters like ragnar and Logan and forcing them on us as 'keys to an army' or some other crap like that. That isn't how I want to play, and its not worth it to me to try. GW has followed in the feted footstepds of Wizards of the coast, taking perfectly good products and crapping all over them for no apparent reasons. Sadly I think 40K will be joining 4th Edition D&D and these new sets of Magic as games I just don't want to deal with anymore. Its one thing to adapt, its another to continue trying when someone magically ripped all the fun out. I still have to finish school and try to find a job in this crappy economy.

 

As for Logan, I would rather not play than take him simply on principal. I have always dreamed of an all-termie army but if it means buying into this stupid 'named Hero hammer' crap that GW is slinging I would rather just walk away from the whole fiasco. I always hated the idea of using characters like Logan and Ragnar, and now that they seem to be the central focus it seems an opportune moment to bow out.

 

 

the named characters are fun, and give a nice bonus, but i can take one out with a normal wolf lord tooled right anyday, its only 'named hero hammer' for the people who dont know how to deal with that kind of stuff, and you realy should wait until you see the dex first, i guarantee you can find a fun list in the new dex, i've been making tons of lists for fun, barely any of which use named characters

 

At this point they seem to have phased out everything I found fun about the wolves, and I don't want to blow hundreds of dollars hoping to find some combination that I enjoy playing half as much as this one. Named Heroes grate on me, and the inability to make my 'basic' list to build off of or change from means that all the things I liked about the wolves are gone too.The only way to get close is to take a 'Counts as' logan, and by then I would just rather not play.

 

I'm glad that so many people are still so excited about the dex, but unless everyone on this board has been lying to me about the above then the things i liked about playing wolves are all gone. I liked the way things were when I could pull out twelve wolf guard or so, attach them to my Heroes and the obligitory BC and GH pack, and have slots left over for other Elites. At this point they are basically saying I have to choose between Scouts and Wolf guard, and the idea of throwing out some nice thick dreds goes right out the window. Sure you get more WG but what is the point if you can't take anything else? I mean apart from selling out and using Logan you still can't divvy them up like you could in the old dex without using up all your slots right away. If that works for everyone else that is fine, but that just seems boring to me. Wolf Guard were the main reason I loved playing wolves and now, ironically, they have made it so I have to choose between taking a smattering of them all over the place like I used to or using the remainder of my army.

[kittenofdeath]

you can split up the wolf guard and attach them to squads, you dont need logan to do that

 

what is it you've lost? apart from wolf guard, which in my opinion are better now anyway, what is it that is so difficult to play without?

[AcidBurn]

by morkai's teeth you dont sound like a son of russ at all.

il admit that im not too happy with some of the new rules (the no frost blade for wolf lord in TDA realy pisses me off) and im not too happy with 5th edition either.

but by russ and the all father if theres one thing us wolves are good at its being patient so i bid thee, do not renounce your oaths and wait till the FAQ comes out and the frost blade rule gets changed and some other tweaks appear.

 

remember yourself space wolf, remember who you are!

[Grimmwulf]

I know your desperation. I felt that way when the new Army Book for me beloved Lizardmen came out. But after changing my list (to a great deal) i found it a pretty good experience to try something new and not to stick with the same list (or variations of it) all the time.

 

At least play a few Games with the new Codex before you quit. There is no use in beeing so frustrated about something you did not even try out.

[Morticon]

There are people in your boat with the release of every dex, in every edition. Just having been on this site for 5 years has allowed me to witness that!

 

With players like yourself, and countless others before you, the old adage rings ever so true that "you can please some of the people all of the time, or all of the people some of the time, but you cant please all of the people all of the time".

 

While this is not necessarily a bad thing, it does do little more than highlight some people's aversion to change.

Everyone takes something different out of the hobby. For me, new rules releases require a different style of thinking. A revamp and shake up of our comfort zone.

Very, very, very few armies of players or models are ever "actually" invalidated by a rules change.

 

(There are a few- yes)

However, to claim that one's entire strategy is gone because of a few changes simply speaks volumes of player's gaming ability and imagination.

 

You can still have a WG body guard - just buy an IC and buy a WG squad and join on up.

 

You can still have a Lord in TDA with a big-ass, ornate weapon. (It can even be a "counts as" Wolf Claw"). Whats better? Reroll or your wounds? Or S5?

 

You can also still have a dreadnought HQ- if you really want one. (Though you dont seem keen on "named" units)

Thing is, 40k has changed. One can grow and change with it, or one can shout and scream and moan about how its all different and (in essence) how it doesnt suit YOU. And YOUR view of what YOU'D like YOUR army to be.

 

I have an interest in wolves because my best buddy (that I introduced to the hobby 10 years ago) plays wolfs. They have always been my second favourite Space Marine chapter next to my own BA. And all the games we played were awesome battles. (We even teamed up to win a major tournie a month back). I've been following this new dex as closely as some hardened Pup players have!

 

Compared to the "new" DA, the "new" BA and yes, even the new SM - you guys made out like KINGS!

 

Speak to any other DA players (remember- the guys you diss about wearing dresses ;) ) and see how hard-done by they were new dex wise. And then realise that those players are still sticking it out.

 

And then, speak to others- who are even wanting to play their own DA using the SW dex. How crazy is that?!

 

 

I'm not trying to convince you to stay. As another poster already mentioned, it doesnt sound like a son of Russ' talk anyway.

But just try take a deep breath.

Take a small break.

And then try work out what you have and how it can be made into something new, exciting and fun.

 

I sound like a stuck record re: GWs "new angle" - but "counts as" as breathed so much life into the hobby for such a huge variety of people from old vets to young kids with great ideas for funky models/units that could never have been supported before.

 

 

Your dex is awesomely fun. VERY powerful and really flavourful.

Its not perfect.

No dex will be.

But, don't knock it till you try it.

 

My advice to you is the same as I gave to my fellow BA brothers when we got a new dex and people were spitting blood (scuse the pun :P ).

Play 10 games !!

Play 10 games with new ideas, new units, new concepts and then make a decision.

 

You may find that you've convinced yourself of what you originally thought. In which case so be it.

 

But you may just find some enjoyment that you never had before, because you were stuck using the crutches of familiarity provided to you by having a 10 year dex.

And then its all awesome-sauce!!! ;)

 

If its the former, please be so kind as to "sig" a link to wherever the place is you intend selling your models! I'm sure loads of people will want to pick em up.

[Oldenhaller]

wow...

 

I can see that you're a touch unhappy there but it does seem a lot of cutting off your nose to spite your face. So far on things you like you've said;

 

liked the way things were when I could pull out twelve wolf guard or so, attach them to my Heroes and the obligitory BC and GH pack, and have slots left over for other Elites.

 

Nothing has changed here, ok so you've 2 guys less...I fail to see how this breaks the fun...you've still got a unit and still got the wolves to attach

 

Wolf Guard were the main reason I loved playing wolves and now, ironically, they have made it so I have to choose between taking a smattering of them all over the place like I used to or using the remainder of my army.

 

Again don't see it...if you were only taking 12 before and you're looking to take 10 now the issue is what?

 

Ven dreads got you down? take Bjorn which the original ven dread was based on as a HQ and enjoy the fun. He's more like they should be and works the same anyhow.

 

Don't like named hero's? cool? don't use em, they're not the be all and end of all of the list.

 

And finally onto your one trick pony;

 

the whole lynchpin of my army was the ability to drive my LRC covered by storm caller up to whatever I deemed the biggest threat while my biker RP and his buddies followed behind, ready to break off and hit a secondary threat at a moments notice, and my scouts waited to come in from the other table edge with THEIR WG leader and raise some hell, all at the cost of one Elite slot!

 

So now instead of one slot it costs you two...big deal...this hardly ruins your lynchpin'. You've got your scouts in there as well and you've got your dread as a hq as you've taken bjorn and called him something else. Your wolfguard have more options, your rune priest now has more choice in powers to use and you've other units to play with. Grey hunters have improved as they now cost less than thier 'nilla counterparts and have more attacks (bp/ccw/bolter as standard gear) and as a whole have a nicely rounded well thought out codex which with a couple of tweaks your force will fit.

 

I've been playing 40k for over 20 years...have been back and forth through many different armies but have always kept my wolves. They're adaptable, fun, and above all great to play. Your 'rant' sounds like a petulant toys out of the pram because you're actually being asked to take a moment for once in 11 years to write a different army list. If you take this little joy from the game and at the first possibility of something which you don't like rearing it's head quit; meh...no loss as the rest of us howl, shout and enjoy our way through the game. Remember why you love playing wolves, stop whining like a pup and join in the fun.

 

 

~O

[Forseti]

Never mind any fluff BS that might come up for this, the idea that I would no longer be able to support my current army list, or even a variation of it, simply because I am limited to three elite slots is a major turn off to the game by itself. In the previous codex Wolf Guard were everywhere for me. They led each squad, they hung out with my wolf lord in my LRC, they palled around with my RP on his bike. Sure I took a unit of BC and one of GH but those were both just filler and extra wounds for the WG anyways. and the whole lynchpin of my army was the ability to drive my LRC covered by storm caller up to whatever I deemed the biggest threat while my biker RP and his buddies followed behind, ready to break off and hit a secondary threat at a moments notice, and my scouts waited to come in from the other table edge with THEIR WG leader and raise some hell, all at the cost of one Elite slot!

 

I'm confused..you say you did all this and using up only 1 elite slot..yet you have scouts with a WG leader, that's 2 right there >.> And I really don't see how it ruins your lynchpin, sure..no retinues, but if you make a 10man WG unit, split 4-5 of them off to lead your squads then you have a 5-6man WG squad for you to attach your HQ to..

 

All this whining about using up more elites being used up, but now WG can take their pick of Land Raiders to use as a dedicated transport, so your LRC frees up a heavy slot.

 

The 2nd part of your lynchpin is 5pts cheaper per model.

[Toasterfree]

some people just like to complain. look at the book, its awesome!!!

[Race Bannon]

Meh, SM Captains can't use a Relic Blade with TDA.

 

If you don't like the game then that's cool. If you don't like the Space Wolves in the game, then switch armies or deal with the changes. The Pros and WAY MORE awesome than the cons. You will HAVE TO play differently. Otherwise, ask to use the old dex at the LGS. They may look at you funny, but if they don't cae then you keep your fun.

 

Otherwise, this is what I'm reading from you and looks to be the REAL arguement to quit:

 

So the game doesn't run the way I want it to anymore, and I would have to all but starve myself for months just to make changes that I don't really want to make if I did indeed want to keep playing.

 

This reads less about Space Wolves and more about dissatisfaction with the game.

[Hrathnar Flintfang]

You know brothers I have to admit its a bit grating to see so many people apparently berate me because they like the new dex or they feel I'm 'resistant to change'.

 

I could put up with some change, if I felt it was warrented. I can put up with point cost changes and some things becoming more or less accessable. I have plenty of things that I COULD have put up with. However I don't have models to ajust with. Again I had to semi-starve myself to get a 25 dollar book which I still have yet to purchase. I have very few funds, and while I might be able to rig up a 500 point or 1000 point army with what I have that would still work in the end I would have to wait a LONG time before I could get more and make alot of sacrifices to do so. Maybe if I could find a decent job I wouldn't care, maybe if everything wasn't shot to hell around here I would be fine with blowing the extra money and taking the extra time to make a new list ad-hock, buy the minis and go with it. But you know something? Between this new dex and the lack of funds/time I really just don't care anymore. As far as slots go it seems like I would have to use up all three of them to get wolf guard on everything I normally have them on (7 on WL 2 on RP 3 sargents) leaving me no room for scouts or a Ven. Dred should I want to take it, and also rendering the other 'goodies' in the new dex moot. I might be able to increase the number of WG bikers with my RP but that would be it and honestly it seems like two is a good number for him.

 

Bottom line is though brothers, that I don't like how things are going. I admit compared to the other 5th edition books I have seen this arleady sounds better, but then that is a bit like saying one 4th edition D&D book stands out among the rest. To me they are all pretty much the same, and frankly if I have to adjust for all this crap and end up unable to make a list I like anyways then I am not going to spend a whole 25 bucks on a book. That alone is a LOT of money, never mind how much they want for new minis. If I have to pay all that and then still have to decide between spreading my WG around or having the ability to take other Elite choices then what am I supposed to do?

 

I guess you brothers out there who want to berate me because I don't like that are free to do so, but it simply doesn't seem worth it anymore.

[Lord Howland Greywolf]

Yes, we cannot stop you from quiting if that is what you want. But do not through away everything based off of a single plan that worked in the old days. Our new dex is better than ever and their only a few things wrong with it

 

1. No dreads as HQ's (except Bjorn)

No big worries, that was only a substitution for bjorn anyways.

 

2. Some of our vehicles (DP and LR) have 2 less trasport capacity than the marine dex.

BIG whoop. It now means we have to really think about having 10 GH or 9GH and 1WG in a transport (Rhino or DP) rather than 10GH 1 WG being the standard in a list (which most of you would have thought about right). No idea why with the LR though.

 

3. Blood Claws have fewer close combat special weapons.

The amout of times my BCs have been called over powered because of this is beyond a joke. But now we can have 2 flamers if we have fifteen men (thats a lot of extra wounds) and mark of the wulfen (seriosly a 30pt guy getting 9 rending atacks is cool)

 

4. Attack Bikes can only be in swiftclaw pack and their BS 3.

Meh, fits better I think and its cheaper, what do you want from them.

 

But I tell you what post youre list and we shall see if we cannot adapt it.

 

EDIT: whoa sorry you must have posted while I was typing this. But I see youre point if you dont have the mony to continue than thats all right. But if you can only play with 1,000pts if the game for a while thats fine. My freind has only recently (about 8 months) moved up to 1,000pts because he couldnt afford it.

[Toasterfree]

3. Blood Claws have fewer close combat special weapons.

The amout of times my BCs have been called over powered because of this is beyond a joke. But now we can have 2 flamers if we have fifteen men (thats a lot of extra wounds) and mark of the wulfen (seriosly a 30pt guy getting 9 rending atacks is cool)

blood claws cannot have MoTW

[Morticon]

But you know something? Between this new dex and the lack of funds/time I really just don't care anymore. As far as slots go it seems like I would have to use up all three of them to get wolf guard on everything I normally have them on (7 on WL 2 on RP 3 sargents) leaving me no room for scouts or a Ven. Dred should I want to take it, and also rendering the other 'goodies' in the new dex moot. I might be able to increase the number of WG bikers with my RP but that would be it and honestly it seems like two is a good number for him.

 

 

Dude- first off- dont take things personally. People are trying to understand where you are coming from and offer some other ways of thinking.

 

If you are interested in even possibly having a stab at things, then do us(and yourself) a favour and list what models you have available. That way peeps with the dex can offer up some good ideas or suggestions for builds that wont cost you anything.

 

On from that, regards the quote above.

 

Your understanding of how the WG works seems a little bit wrong. You cant take those numbers on the guys you stated- at least not like that.

 

You said (correct me if im wrong) 7 WG on a WL, 2 on a RP and 3 that are "sarges" yeah?

 

Well, this is easily doable. And it will only cost 2 slots- not all three.

(Though why anyone would want a 3 man squad is beyond me).

Rather stick your RP with WG (which are now pretty awesome actually - and are on a par with WG in most respects other than equipment!)

[Blckbuster]

you know, you don't actually have to change anything you have you old dex, and army list and could continue to play it, among friends you do what you enjoy, we're not in the NFL or anything

 

every rule in 40k is a guideline, go play some fun games

[captain fabian]

Hey Hrathnar Flintfang. Look man you are not going to get any compassion fom me here. I just want to tell that these toy soldiers you've got there are PLASTIC. Nothing more nothing less. I get really mad when I see people who can barely make enough money to live, spend money on something not so important. At least not so important untill you can organise real life. This ''I starved myself'' thing drives me crazy. Come on find a job, find the time and spend as much as you can on this hobby. Many times what we want to do is not compatible with what we CAN do. I know its a bit harsh but if you cant play anymore then don't. I don't know what others have said as I haven't read the whole post, but there is no point in complaining about it. After all play with your current army and book or keep the army with some little changes and play just for FUN. Above all get a grip on yourself and see things from a simple point of view. I know the hobby can offer a great pleasue, many get carried away but you must have the strength to controll yourself as any real man should. And this is just a minor fault from your side. Imagine what could happen if this game we play was something life changing and with of far greater gravity? I have seen enough things and I have met enough no lifers involved in this hobby which in turn has led me to think that it is not so health, especially for weak persons. What I do is keep the things that I kike and throw away everything else. I also comunicate with other players only when I play (and this is not often) since I like to see only the good side of the hobby. I even responded to your post because I wanted to tell you and everyone else these things. I rarely make any posts, except when I want to learn something about the background and I lack the time to read all those books and stories. Make your own conclusions out of all these I have said and choose your goals. If you quit the game I don't really care since I don't know you and I never will. My point is to show some people who may be like you and don't know it, the right (in my opinon) side of things. Life's life guys. No toy soldiers will make it better. They can just make it happier as long as you can handle it.

I cant predict your reactions guys but I am really not that sensitive.

[Hrathnar Flintfang]

Well ok then, i'll post it. Maybe I'm having a fit over nothing and its just that I can't see some specific ruling about the dex, but we will see.

 

1997 point space wolf army.

 

HQ 1:

 

Wolf Lord:

Model

Frost axe

Tactical Dread Armor

Storm Bolter

Wolf tooth necklace

Wolf Tail talisman

Wolf Pelt

 

Total: 129

 

Retinue:

6X Wolf guard

6X Terminator armor

5X Lightning claw pairs

1X Power Fist

1X Heavy Flamer

6X Wolf Pelts

 

Total: 378

 

Land Raider Crusader

Pintile mounted Multi-melta

Total: 260 points

 

 

Grand Total: 767 points

 

HQ 2:

 

Rune Priest

Bike

Rune Axe

Runic Armor

 

Total: 175

 

2X Wolf Guard Bodyguard

2X Bike

2X power axe

2X Melta Bomb

 

Total: 116

 

Grand Total: 291

 

HQ 3:

 

Ven. Dread

Assault Cannon

Grand Total: 155 points

 

Eleite 1:

 

Ven. Dreadnaught

Assault Cannons

 

Grand Total: 155

 

Elite 2:

 

Wolf Guard

Storm Bolter

Power Fist

 

 

Total: 50 points

 

4X Wolf Scouts

1X Melta: 10 points

2X Power weapon

1X Plasma Pistol

4X Melta Bombs

 

Total: 106

 

Grand total: 151 points

 

Troop 1:

 

Wolf guard

Power Fist

Wolf Pelt

Wolf Tail Talisman

Bolt Pistol

 

Total: 45

 

5X Grey Hunters

2X Power Weapons

1X Melta

1X Plasma Pistol

Total

Razorback: 70 points

 

Grand Total: 245 points

 

Troop 2:

 

1X Wolf Guard

1X Terminator Armor

1X Storm Bolter

1X Power Fist

 

Total: 55 points

 

11X Bloodclaws

3X Power weapons

 

Total: 178 points

 

Grand total: 233 points

 

Final Total: 1997

 

Hey Hrathnar Flintfang. Look man you are not going to get any compassion fom me here. I just want to tell that these toy soldiers you've got there are PLASTIC. Nothing more nothing less. I get really mad when I see people who can barely make enough money to live, spend money on something not so important. At least not so important untill you can organise real life. This ''I starved myself'' thing drives me crazy. Come on find a job, find the time and spend as much as you can on this hobby. Many times what we want to do is not compatible with what we CAN do. I know its a bit harsh but if you cant play anymore then don't. I don't know what others have said as I haven't read the whole post, but there is no point in complaining about it. After all play with your current army and book or keep the army with some little changes and play just for FUN. Above all get a grip on yourself and see things from a simple point of view. I know the hobby can offer a great pleasue, many get carried away but you must have the strength to controll yourself as any real man should. And this is just a minor fault from your side. Imagine what could happen if this game we play was something life changing and with of far greater gravity? I have seen enough things and I have met enough no lifers involved in this hobby which in turn has led me to think that it is not so health, especially for weak persons. What I do is keep the things that I kike and throw away everything else. I also comunicate with other players only when I play (and this is not often) since I like to see only the good side of the hobby. I even responded to your post because I wanted to tell you and everyone else these things. I rarely make any posts, except when I want to learn something about the background and I lack the time to read all those books and stories. Make your own conclusions out of all these I have said and choose your goals. If you quit the game I don't really care since I don't know you and I never will. My point is to show some people who may be like you and don't know it, the right (in my opinon) side of things. Life's life guys. No toy soldiers will make it better. They can just make it happier as long as you can handle it.

I cant predict your reactions guys but I am really not that sensitive.

 

THe point is that I am specifically choosing NOT to spend the money on it because now I don't have the money to live on. When I was building my army I had more money coming to me, I actually had a job and didn't have to pay hundreds of dollars on text books and classes I don't even really need just to earn a degree I don't want but i need to get a job. My basic reason for wanting to quit is "Ok, I can live on Raisen Bran for a week if it means getting a 25 dollar book, then I can use what I already have to make an army like the one I had but with a few tweaks and without having to buy everything right away, then I can grab some new minis once I finish all my crap and life gets back in order"

 

The whole reason I am considering quitting is because of priorities. My time, my money and my energy are all now limited by obligations and I really don't want to start over from scratch. its one thing to save up 25 bucks for a new book, change around my army list and hten come back to it and play later when I have all my crap in order. There really isn't anything wrong with some short term sacrifice in order to get yourself a treat once in a while. But that IS once in a while and as you have pointed out it would be unhealthy both physically and mentally to continue said sacrifice in order to build an army I enjoy playing.

 

That is why I said I was quitting in the first place really. The new Codex sounds like it takes away too many of the things I like about the game and would force me to spend time and money I do not have, so I won't spend it. The reason I complain is because they seem to have taken out everything I loved about the old dex and made the new one more or less useless to me. Its a huge let down considering this was the one treat i was saving up for myself to help offset all the real life crap. But as you said if its not fun or you can't support it, then don't. So I won't.

[Decoy]

Hrathnar.

 

Dreads ain't exactly a Wolfy way. Ven-Dreads were replaced by the Original, Bjorn, as stated before me. These brothers here can say what they want, but it's far from wolfy, in my mind, to trot out 3-4 of the Chapter's finest, best, wisest soldiers for a minor battle, anything short of Apoc. And in apoc, you can run what you'd like, how you'd like.

 

Yes, with a bit of tricky maneuvering of the Wolf Guard, you can now join your Lord to a Wolf Guard squad of appropriate size, giving them, while not an actual retinue, a squad with all the capabilities of the old Guard.

 

 

I've always been a hardass, mate. No sympathy for people who didn't get their "pony" of exactly what they wanted out of the Dex, but for some reason, that ain't the case I'm seeing with you. I'm seeing a guy that's distraught over his old playstyle essentially being ripped to shreds. When I look at what you wrote, it's not passing, "I DUN WANNA!" anger like the other folks who got crap codices. I see in you a genuine sadness of it all, and yes, a bit of frustration, but that's mostly monetary from what I can see.

 

So let me ask you this, mate. Sure, your playstyle may be in a state of flux at the moment, changing your army type. You worked hard to get the playstyle you appreciate, and the playstyle that you think you deserve. More power to you in that regard, mate. The question at hand, however, is...

 

Would you bail on your army like this, mate?

 

Now, that seems like a corny question. Maybe it is. But those are the boys that you've played with, fought with, and won with. I'm not telling you "Your army is alive! Think of their feelings!" because that's just B.S., and we both know it. What I AM saying is that if your army -did- have any sort of sentience, they'd be bashing you in the head with their steins of ale.

 

 

Sure, the game isn't going in the direction you wanted it to go. I don't think -anyone- can say, and mean, that. Sure, I rather like that psychic powers are making a major comeback. With that said, I hate the way the game is going. High emphasis on shooting, my Wolfy behind. That doesn't mean I'm going to pack it up and move out, just because there's a few rules and a few playstyles I don't like.

 

 

Everyone else here is asking you to stick around, play a few games, and good on 'em for asking this. That's a good meter of how the game is going. However, I want to ask you something slightly different, in addition to that. Yes, I'd like you to try a few games with the new Dex, even if you can just get a .pdf of it, so you don't have to waste money. But more than that, I want you to do exactly as I intend to.

 

Remake your army, to the letter, with the new Codex. Yes, it's perfectly, almost pleasingly possible. However, the points values may be a bit off. That's all I'm asking out of you, mate, and I might even be able to help before the Codex comes out officially, if you throw me a PM.

 

Remake your army, completely. I think you'll be surprised. Yes, some things will change, but other things will also change, and my guess is that they'll change for the better. My 13th Company army, obsolete but given new breath in the new Codex, was an astounding 300+ points cheaper when reproduced in the new codex, with no loss of effectivity.

 

Some know me as an insane, ballbusting, psychopathic freak here. To be fair, it's a reputation earned, and with a fair bit of hard work, too. :unsure: So I'm asking you if you'd work with me, and bear with us, here in the Fang. Some of these berating boys... methinks that despite themselves, they mean well. They're trying to get you to see the error of your ways in the Wolfiest way they know, and more power to 'em, no matter how misguided they may or may not be.

 

Give 'em a pass, mate. Look past that, and see that ultimately, we're pissed not at you, but at a situation that forces you to resign from something you care about, something you love.

 

Do what I asked of ya, eh, mate? Just wait and see, and talk with us until then. If you still don't like it, after you've remade your list and played it, then who are we to stop a Wolf Lord to wander?

 

 

Just my two cents, and would appreciate a response, if you'd be willing to throw it my way.

[Hrathnar Flintfang]

Hrathnar.

 

Dreads ain't exactly a Wolfy way. Ven-Dreads were replaced by the Original, Bjorn, as stated before me. These brothers here can say what they want, but it's far from wolfy, in my mind, to trot out 3-4 of the Chapter's finest, best, wisest soldiers for a minor battle, anything short of Apoc. And in apoc, you can run what you'd like, how you'd like.

 

Yes, with a bit of tricky maneuvering of the Wolf Guard, you can now join your Lord to a Wolf Guard squad of appropriate size, giving them, while not an actual retinue, a squad with all the capabilities of the old Guard.

 

 

I've always been a hardass, mate. No sympathy for people who didn't get their "pony" of exactly what they wanted out of the Dex, but for some reason, that ain't the case I'm seeing with you. I'm seeing a guy that's distraught over his old playstyle essentially being ripped to shreds. When I look at what you wrote, it's not passing, "I DUN WANNA!" anger like the other folks who got crap codices. I see in you a genuine sadness of it all, and yes, a bit of frustration, but that's mostly monetary from what I can see.

 

So let me ask you this, mate. Sure, your playstyle may be in a state of flux at the moment, changing your army type. You worked hard to get the playstyle you appreciate, and the playstyle that you think you deserve. More power to you in that regard, mate. The question at hand, however, is...

 

Would you bail on your army like this, mate?

 

Now, that seems like a corny question. Maybe it is. But those are the boys that you've played with, fought with, and won with. I'm not telling you "Your army is alive! Think of their feelings!" because that's just B.S., and we both know it. What I AM saying is that if your army -did- have any sort of sentience, they'd be bashing you in the head with their steins of ale.

 

 

Sure, the game isn't going in the direction you wanted it to go. I don't think -anyone- can say, and mean, that. Sure, I rather like that psychic powers are making a major comeback. With that said, I hate the way the game is going. High emphasis on shooting, my Wolfy behind. That doesn't mean I'm going to pack it up and move out, just because there's a few rules and a few playstyles I don't like.

 

 

Everyone else here is asking you to stick around, play a few games, and good on 'em for asking this. That's a good meter of how the game is going. However, I want to ask you something slightly different, in addition to that. Yes, I'd like you to try a few games with the new Dex, even if you can just get a .pdf of it, so you don't have to waste money. But more than that, I want you to do exactly as I intend to.

 

Remake your army, to the letter, with the new Codex. Yes, it's perfectly, almost pleasingly possible. However, the points values may be a bit off. That's all I'm asking out of you, mate, and I might even be able to help before the Codex comes out officially, if you throw me a PM.

 

Remake your army, completely. I think you'll be surprised. Yes, some things will change, but other things will also change, and my guess is that they'll change for the better. My 13th Company army, obsolete but given new breath in the new Codex, was an astounding 300+ points cheaper when reproduced in the new codex, with no loss of effectivity.

 

Some know me as an insane, ballbusting, psychopathic freak here. To be fair, it's a reputation earned, and with a fair bit of hard work, too. :unsure: So I'm asking you if you'd work with me, and bear with us, here in the Fang. Some of these berating boys... methinks that despite themselves, they mean well. They're trying to get you to see the error of your ways in the Wolfiest way they know, and more power to 'em, no matter how misguided they may or may not be.

 

Give 'em a pass, mate. Look past that, and see that ultimately, we're pissed not at you, but at a situation that forces you to resign from something you care about, something you love.

 

Do what I asked of ya, eh, mate? Just wait and see, and talk with us until then. If you still don't like it, after you've remade your list and played it, then who are we to stop a Wolf Lord to wander?

 

 

Just my two cents, and would appreciate a response, if you'd be willing to throw it my way.

 

I'm not saying I won't run the old dex now and then with the few friends who still play, or that I'm throwing my wolves out (Contemplated selling them but that wouldn't' work) but as far as collecting and getting the new dex goes, I really don't see the point. The problem stems from the fact that I don't really have anything to play around WITH. What you see in this list is, with about ten models difference, what I own. Period. This is the sum of all my collecting over the many years, the best I could do is perhaps add in some more GH, take out the second dread and switch the razorback to a rhino. Thats it, period. I suppose I could play around with a smaller point variant but it seems like with all the point changes and new uints and the like I would end up having to buy something anywas before I could even run my first game, unless I played a 500 point game and I usually don't like doing those. in fact I don't even know if i COULD do it because in my old 500 point list I used a Dread as my HQ. People keep talking about lack of flexibility but honestly when you have no room for real variation its hard to tell what your supposed to do.

[Toasterfree]

Id also like to go on a more constructive point myself. When I started to get back in, i bought all the blood claw boxes that I could, knowing that in the 3e dex they wrecked house. Guess what, new Dex they dont. now i have two units of BCs that I may never field again (unless i play a lot of points which im about to total out and see what I have). Now I have two units of GHs, and plan on getting a 3rd (yes the old box!!) am I sad about not having a dread to take as a HQ, slightly yes. but i look at it this way, now i get a dread for cheaper that can do what I want it to, pop transports (yes two twin linked ACs is house).

 

I have a LR that i have decided that unless its over 1850 i will probably NOT play. 0 terminators (with the exception of a random WP and logan). needed to model my own Ragnar (i really dont like the current fig). and i have two kids/car payment/college loans and im horrible with money. i know where you are at. just chill with it, listen to decoy. ive had to change my style of play, and honestly this new dex IMHO is better then the old one. barring that you cant have a giant 20 man WG pack, but they are much better and slightly cheaper. with better kit load out!!

 

i am stll excited about the new dex even though my whole game play style changed.