teeef Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Sorryst your bubble, but they can't do 1st turn assaults.Scout mov has to stay outside 12". So you're 12.0000000001 inches away, move 6, 6 assault range: 0000000001 inches away, no combat. Then you get shot to bits. Bubble not bursted, but it does change things. Not being able to assault on turn 1 means I will have to be very conservative with their application. I suppose I could make the mathematical argument that "more than 12 inches" means I can asymptotically approach 12 with infinitesimally teeny tiny decimals represented by 12.0000000000...0001, and then issue an argument that "more than 12 inches" as you assert actually = 12 inches, thus. Basically, arbitrarily "more than 12" is indistinguishable from 12 so far as math is concerned. For several proofs based upon this very same argument, the wikipedia article on .999 repeating is very enlightening. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0.999... Yes, I went there. :) In all seriousness, is this addressed in the FAQ or the rulebook anywhere, that troops cannot assault during the turn after they have made an assault move? If not, I may actually stick to my math argument...and, of course, whatever the whim of the judges is. No gamesmanship required. The Scout move for the Storm can be up to 24 inches. So now you are 12.0000000001 inches away. Then you move the storm 12" during turn 1. The Storm is a Fast Vehicle so it allows you to fire your Multi-melta and the Storm is Open Topped so it allows you to disembark uo to 2 inches from the hull [which is almost 3 inches if you count the base of your figure], fire, and move the 6" assault. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179750-cc-scounts-wo-a-transporthow-do-i-make-it-work/page/2/#findComment-2133022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 No gamesmanship required. The Scout move for the Storm can be up to 24 inches. So now you are 12.0000000001 inches away. Then you move the storm 12" during turn 1. The Storm is a Fast Vehicle so it allows you to fire your Multi-melta and the Storm is Open Topped so it allows you to disembark uo to 2 inches from the hull [which is almost 3 inches if you count the base of your figure], fire, and move the 6" assault. What I'm getting out of this is that my scouts sans Storm will outflank and be limited in their ability to apply pressure..or I get a storm and they become fast moving and dangerous. I sort of like the idea of a 30" first turn assault which wouldn't require infiltrating...if I'm doing my math right? Deploy them normally 12" from my table edge, OR hold them in reserve. Scout move 12". (If in reserve, they get no scout move.) First turn move them 12". Disembark 2". Assault 6". That is pretty mighty. It could put my scouts into a very early assault against a unit that's not built to take an assault. With the storm there, there's a really good chance they'll rout a unit if I pick my target right. First turn unit kill. With any luck I can disembark with the speeder in cover and consolidate the scouts back towards it. Even if not, the rest of my army will be bringing the pain to their front ranks, so they'll be pincered, if briefly. This opens up a lot of fun tactical moves. I almost want to have TWO teams of scouts do this. That would totally be worth two storms. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179750-cc-scounts-wo-a-transporthow-do-i-make-it-work/page/2/#findComment-2133146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Deploy them normally 12" from my table edge, OR hold them in reserve.Scout move 24" First turn move them 12". Disembark 2". Assault 6". they scout move 24", aslong as they are not within 12" of an enemy unit. Two storms would be good, you can always combat squad a big unit to fill two storms, although they become far more dnagerous if combined with a combi-weapon/meltabombs etc. Gc08 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179750-cc-scounts-wo-a-transporthow-do-i-make-it-work/page/2/#findComment-2133159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 Deploy them normally 12" from my table edge, OR hold them in reserve.Scout move 24" First turn move them 12". Disembark 2". Assault 6". they scout move 24", aslong as they are not within 12" of an enemy unit. Two storms would be good, you can always combat squad a big unit to fill two storms, although they become far more dnagerous if combined with a combi-weapon/meltabombs etc. Gc08 So they can cover the board even better than I imagined; that's epic. I wish you could fit more than five in a storm. I feel that a ten man squad that outflanks might be able to put substantial pressure on an enemy unit, possibly rout them out of kills...while the storm with only five in it might be better applied to supporting my other melee units (i.e. vanguard or an assault squad). I'm not sure how effective the Ld penalty is that the Storm imposes...can I expect five scouts to rout, say, a Fire Warrior team, with the storm backing them up? I feel like assaulting Eldar with scouts would be asking for trouble. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179750-cc-scounts-wo-a-transporthow-do-i-make-it-work/page/2/#findComment-2133173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I wish you could fit more than five in a storm. I feel that a ten man squad that outflanks might be able to put substantial pressure on an enemy unit, possibly rout them out of kills...while the storm with only five in it might be better applied to supporting my other melee units (i.e. vanguard or an assault squad). I'm not sure how effective the Ld penalty is that the Storm imposes...can I expect five scouts to rout, say, a Fire Warrior team, with the storm backing them up? I feel like assaulting Eldar with scouts would be asking for trouble. If you play it smart and use them along side a stronger CC unit you can deal a hammer blow in one go. Generally yes 5 scouts will get creamed, but if you use a vanguard/termy/HG squad to charge your opponents uber unit aswell, the ld bonus from the cerberus launchers may just tip the balance, plus the extra 15 or so attacks from the 5 scouts isnt exactly chopped liver! generally your opponents return attacks are going to go against your elites, sure they could kill the 5 scouts and hope to beat you on combat res, but it makes more sense to kill the more dangerous stuff first. the way i see it is if the scouts have a fist, tyr and get them in CC with an IC, 5 scouts is a big ask for one charcter and hopefully the fist will instagib him whilst the dedicated assault squad deals with the uber unit. The way i see it best working is in a meat grinder situation, where you have an assault squad for example trading punches with an ork mob and neither side is winning.. send in the Storm, the attacks from the scouts will help, and if you manage to win combat the ld modifier will stack with the combat res results. ^^just an example i realise mob rule can effect the results of this happening! this is all generic "what if" talk, but hopefully you can garner some uses from it. Gc08 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179750-cc-scounts-wo-a-transporthow-do-i-make-it-work/page/2/#findComment-2133551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 Definitely helpful, gc08; gives me a lot to think about. Thanks. =) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179750-cc-scounts-wo-a-transporthow-do-i-make-it-work/page/2/#findComment-2133681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rioniku Anjiru Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 How about supporting them with an assault squad? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/179750-cc-scounts-wo-a-transporthow-do-i-make-it-work/page/2/#findComment-2138373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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