Space Wolves Defeated By Chaos!

[Night Runner]

Hi,

 

I just saw this battle on youtube.com. SW against CSM. I didn't like or agree much with the SW players choice of troops, but the interesting thing about this game is that he had 4 Rune Priests with JOTW power and he didn't do that much damage with them! It just goes to show how useless all the panic and grumbling was about JOTW, and how one should look at the overall balancing of an army rather than nitpicking certain elements. The link is below:

 

 

 

Also, as good as SW are in CC, I think the game above proves that there are better CC adversaries out there, like Khorne Berserkers and Tyranids; and that the Wolves should depend more on their versatility and cunning to win.

[Brother Amarel]

"Odd' army choices on both sides, there. As in really strange.

 

Regardless, I'm not sure that seeing one game played proves or disproves any of the concerns over JOTW (particularly as it's CSM's). In terms of melee effectiveness, don't forget the cost of Bezerkers over GH's (and the lack of a banner on those GH's, too).

[eyeslikethunder]

Bad tactics too he let himself be taken piecemeal rather than using the advantage of his superior numbers. His choices didnt help. he could of done with some tanks or speeders or long range guns on the dreads to allow a more co-ordinated repsonse

 

Most his grey hunters just sit there waiting for chaos to come to them some for 3-4 turns instead of grouping up.

[Sharpsilver]

All those wasted turns of movement.

 

He sat there with all those grey hunters and allowed, possessed, Khorne berserkers and the Terminators to come within Assault or gun him down. Poor tactics. This also proves what happens when you specialise in multiple rune priests.. You spend so much on them that you neglect other areas of the army. He also had nothing to destroy that Defiler... which decimated his hunters with the battle cannon. I didn't see which weapon setup his dreadnoughts had. I saw one had an assault cannon, anybody else see the other two's ranged weapons?

[rodgers37]

I was thinking of useing 4 Rune Priests..... but not soo much now, the problem i have (and i guess for a lot of people) i will face almost every army and tactic possible, 20+ people come to my club, and there is everything from Nob Bikers, to Guard armies with just tanks (and the 2 small platoons....) guard/ork/nid hordes, blanced chaos, Tau, Necrons, so i don't know what will work against everything, i think a Drop pod lists, will work against most things, as long as its done well, which is what i want to work on (test game against Tau today..... )

[Night Runner]

This also proves what happens when you specialise in multiple rune priests.. You spend so much on them that you neglect other areas of the army. He also had nothing to destroy that Defiler... which decimated his hunters with the battle cannon. I didn't see which weapon setup his dreadnoughts had. I saw one had an assault cannon, anybody else see the other two's ranged weapons?

 

Well put. I agree completely. He would have been better off with just one or two Rune Priests and investing the other points in support or other cheaper HQs. Also fluff-wise, it doesn't make any sense to have so many Rune Priests and dreadnoughts in such a small force! IMO in the end it comes down to a balanced, objective-oriented army built around the spirit and fluff of the chapter.

 

But as they often say in this forum, that's just my 2 cents.

[eyeslikethunder]

All those wasted turns of movement. I didn't see which weapon setup his dreadnoughts had. I saw one had an assault cannon, anybody else see the other two's ranged weapons?

 

all three had assault canons. And a drop pod army with no Wolf scouts :D they would have so helped against this army (the defiler or one the transports)

[Lord Ragnarok]

Also, he didn't address the typical SW conundrum when DPing.... long range fire power. If I had his list I would have dropped more aggressively toward the chaos forces to maximize his firepower and short range and CC ability. (especially with no Demon P.)

 

 

This is why I'm so keen on logan with long fangs and WG termies with heavy ranged weapons in GH packs. Drop on an objective and let loose until they close ranks then unleash short range, CC.

 

And yes, scouts would have helped as well.

 

Also his list would have probably been murder for a Nid/nurgle daemon list or necrons, but against I4/I5 armies...meh.

 

Now if they had given each Rune P. SC and tempest rath, or Hurricane things may have been more interesting.

[Hfran Morkai]

OH NO!!!

 

You mean our army isn't invincible? I guess I'll have to wait and hope the next codex is full of cheese because I thought they were all meant to be!

 

We're always meant to win!!

 

Sorry about that but people crying cheese annoy me when the point is it can swing either way, hence it's a game

[Brother Amarel]

You mean our army isn't invincible?

Certainly, not the one played in that link (nor the way it was played).

 

In fact, being as how the SW player Drop Podded is entire force in a line across the centre of the table and then just left them there in the open, are we sure that there was even a player in control of them? :).

[Roland Durendal]

That Batrep gave me a good chuckle. Pretty poor choice of a list and pretty poor tactic of playing it.

 

Upside was he gets credit for trying out an interpretation of the new rules for HQs and characters, i.e. the 4RP's. Also kudos for showing us that such a build (4 RP's) is pretty much useless

[Mar Bloodaxe]

I'm trying my wolves out in a planets strike game on Thursday. I plan on utilizing long range fire power for sure.

[Vassakov]

Someone on BoLS put it perfectly - the list was a "how cheesy is JotWW?" Answer - not. Combined with a rubbish deployment and an apparent lack of understanding of how to play the army and he was pulled apart.

 

Don't think we'll be seeing this too often... especially not now JotWW has been shown to be fairly ineffectual, even if 4 were going off each turn.

[dublindawg]

If the enemy is using a classic sweeping manuvoer, why would you drop a Dreadnaught on a flank the farthest from. If he had dropped the last 2 dreadnaughts on the flank that the defiler was firing from and then assaulted with them he could of turned the game into a win.

 

A static fire line only works with a shooty-large infantry based force that uses cover. He wasn't even using the DP's to block LOS.

 

Take away his membership card to the Fang and send him back to repeat initiate training.

[GunnerRed]

Did the chaos player assault his possessed stright out of the rhino? I though you can't do that.

[rattman]

Did the chaos player assault his possessed stright out of the rhino? I though you can't do that.

 

In the white dwarf the battle report against chaos is a draw. He does oneshot a greater demon of nurgle with jaws of the wolf

 

from that you tube, what a surprise a :woot: player lost with space wolf

[The_Crippster]

not only did the SW player not do a great job at playing/making his list, but neither did the chaos, with terminators, posessed, raptors, and not enough troop choices that could reliably hold an objective.

 

So I think that if played his list/the game properly, the outcome of game would have been quite different.

[Leman Of The Russ]

Two very poor armies.