thade Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 I mean, a Str 10 hit on a Rhino will mess it up pretty good, I'll grant you...but the odds are higher that scatter will only hit with a str 5 which isn't nearly as bad, and then the librarian (and his unit) aren't taking the hit at all. I'm thinking of putting a librarian with Vortex and Nullzone into a Rhino with a combat squad, and having one combat squad model with an assault (or heavy) weapon and him fire from the Hatch. A rhino's only 35 points after all. Here is a weird question: Smoke would give me a coversave, wouldn't it? @_@ (Provided the blast template was not centered on the Rhino.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Yes, smoke would provide a cover save if you borked the VoD roll and landed the template on your Rhino. Seems silly, but that's how the rules work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted September 29, 2009 Author Share Posted September 29, 2009 Now that I think of it, it'd be a nice side effect but a waste of smoke. Since the Rhino would have to blow smoke to move into position, then SIT there for that turn, because Vortex is a "Heavy" (meaning the Libby can't move and shoot...right?). I'll need the smoke to keep the Rhino alive for that turn...or at least mobile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 The problem with this idea is that vortex is treated as a heavy weapon. Hence, if that rhino had moved in the movement phase, you can't shoot the vortex of doom from it, and I don't think any opponent is going to be stupid enough to leave his units within 12" of that rhino. The only libby who can shoot the vortex on the move is a terminator libby, and terminators of any type can't enter rhinos. EDIT: Also, I don't think you can shoot out of the rhino if you popped smoke, since passengers shooting out of vehicles counts as vehicle shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain_quint Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 The only libby who can shoot the vortex on the move is a terminator libby, and terminators of any type can't enter rhinos. don't have the codex in reach but wouldn't a bike make the libby relentless too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 EDIT: Also, I don't think you can shoot out of the rhino if you popped smoke, since passengers shooting out of vehicles counts as vehicle shooting. No they don't; passenger shooting and vehicle shooting are handled in completely different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 don't have the codex in reach but wouldn't a bike make the libby relentless too? You're right. I don't think I've ever seen a bike libby in 5th ed, so I forgot all about that. No they don't; passenger shooting and vehicle shooting are handled in completely different ways. Oo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 EDIT: Also, I don't think you can shoot out of the rhino if you popped smoke, since passengers shooting out of vehicles counts as vehicle shooting. No they don't; passenger shooting and vehicle shooting are handled in completely different ways. Exactly. This fries peoples' minds when I do it. "Butbutbut...how do they see thru the smoke?!" To make them feel better, I fire the unit inside FIRST, then smoke. It soothes their addled brains, but still doesn't stop some of the crying, lol. Maybe this is a holdover from the older smoke launchers rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted September 30, 2009 Author Share Posted September 30, 2009 ShinyRhino, I think popping smoke after the embarked shoot is a great workaround for addled brains. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Don't you have to declare Smoke in the movement phase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted September 30, 2009 Author Share Posted September 30, 2009 Don't you have to declare Smoke in the movement phase? The smoke launcher rule says "Once per game, after completing it's move..." so, I think that implies that you must do it immediately after the move completes. In which case, you are right. Literal interpretation could go the way of "any time after it moves, so long as the vehicle doesn't shoot, before the opponent's shooting phase." But I think it's clear that it has to happen on your turn. And it'd be weird to do it in your assault phase. But since you do it in lieu of shooting, I don't see why you can't pop smoke during the shooting phase (which is after a movement). Not sure which way is proper, but I've seen people pop smoke both immediately after a move and during their shooting phase. I think either is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Since Dreadnoughts can still pop smoke in the shooting phase, it seems like it is still an available option. However, Dreads get a specific rule, while all other vehicles get a general (and not specific enough) rule. To be safe, you might just want to pop smoke for your Rhino after it moves, just to keep well away from that argument in addition to one you'll get when your have the passengers fire after smoke was popped. Of course, if everyone bothered to read the rulebook ... SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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