SW Vs WE

[Muzza]

Two things to discuss really but thought I'd just do one thread.

 

1: I'm currently starting a WE army but have always loved the SW's. The new models are fantastic. I like the idea of a small Wolfwing force as I paint very slow and it would be cheaper than my WE (would be all FW). I would later add to the Wolfwing to make it into a great company. But I'm still concearned at having to paint all those faces. So what does everyone else think, should I stick with WE (only got one squad so far) or jump on the SW bandwagon.

 

2: WE are the closest faction on the chaos side and berzerkers have often been said to be one of the best troop choices in the game. So how do SW (Grey hunters) stack up against them?

[KiltedMarine]

First, welcome to the Fang.

 

To answer your first question, it depends on which army you're going to have more fun with. And you don't have to completely abandon your heretic marines entirely; you can switch back and forth between armies until you have two playable forces, one made up of the best warriors the Imperium ever birthed, and the other a bunch of psychotic heretics. Both are pretty :woot: ing cool.

 

As for the second question, Berzerkers get Furious Charge, which is very powerful on the charge, but Grey Hunters get Counter Attack, which is devastating on the defense, plus we have more weapon options than the Berzerkers do (at least I think so- don't have my C:CSM handy). I'd give the edge to the Hunters, personally, but I think it's a matter of opinion.

[DV8]

First, welcome to the Fang.

 

To answer your first question, it depends on which army you're going to have more fun with. And you don't have to completely abandon your heretic marines entirely; you can switch back and forth between armies until you have two playable forces, one made up of the best warriors the Imperium ever birthed, and the other a bunch of psychotic heretics. Both are pretty ;) ing cool.

 

As for the second question, Berzerkers get Furious Charge, which is very powerful on the charge, but Grey Hunters get Counter Attack, which is devastating on the defense, plus we have more weapon options than the Berzerkers do (at least I think so- don't have my C:CSM handy). I'd give the edge to the Hunters, personally, but I think it's a matter of opinion.

 

If the Grey Hunters charge, the Khorne Berserkers have the slight edge (WS5 and IIRC Berserkers have 2 attacks base? so equal attacks thrown around) . If the Berserkers charge, my money's on them, hands down. WS5, S5, I5 with 4 attacks apiece, plus the Champion? GG. Granted points is a consideration, since Berserkers cost almost 25% more than Grey Hunters.

 

The key is in versatility. Khorne Berserkers do one thing, and they do it very VERY well, and that thing is to hit people. Hard. Grey Hunters can be kitted to a variety of roles, and are still very capable in close range firefights, on the defensive, and taking the fight to the enemy. You can't say any one unit is better when stacked up against each other. Context has to be considered, and both armies as a whole have to be looked at.

 

 

DV8

[KiltedMarine]

Ah. Yeah, I'd forgotten the WS issue. I don't recall if Berzerkers get the 2nd base attack... if they do, then yeah, there's a reason they're as expensive as they are by comparison.

 

Still, by and large, the Hunters are IMO now the best defensive unit in the game.

[Jonas Stromclaw]

Ah, but all of you forgot mark of the wulfen we can now stick in squads. My first game with the new 'dex a full ten man 'zerker squad assaulted a slightly battered greyhunter squad (7 guys). Heavy casualties inflicted by the khorne lads with the regular GHs accounting for a few. Then my wulfen goes and butchers 3 berzerkers. I win combat, berzerkers have fearless, take extra wounds, and go bye-bye. Admittedly its not a guarentee, but rending D6+3 attacks WITHOUT charging for 15pts? What do the 'zerkers have that can match that for efficiency?

 

(on a side note the game turned out to be the funniest tie ever. The aforementioned wulfen was left on the field with an immobilised, weaponless chaos rhino. He charges it, blows it up, and the resulting explosion manages to kill him. Suicidal wulfen, homocidal chaos transport!)

[DV8]

Admittedly its not a guarentee, but rending D6+3 attacks WITHOUT charging for 15pts? What do the 'zerkers have that can match that for efficiency?

 

It's not. Statistically the Khorne Berserkers SHOULD win out against the Grey Hunters. Also, Mark of the Wulfen forbids you from gaining any benefit for any weapons the model may be armed with for combat, meaning you replace your attack characteristic of "1" with D6+1. You get bonuses for charging, Logan's howl, etc., but you don't get the benefit for a second hand weapon, power weapons, power fists, etc.

 

These attacks are made using the marked models' claws and teeth, and hence are not affected by wargear, additional hand weapons and so on, though they may be bolstered by other factors (the bonus for charging, Logan Grimnar's Living Legend, etc.)

 

In a fist fight, if the Berserkers charge I would gladly put my money on Khorne's followers (alas, I weep for my pups).

 

 

DV8

[Brother Grius]

More like 53% more. We're talking about each Berzerker being more than 1½ Grey Hunters. That said, if your Grey Hunters are challenging Khorne to a 1 on 1 fight (or 10 on 10) you're doing it wrong. I personally prefer the Grey Hunters for their versatility.

 

I think that if I were you, I would pick one army and build it to 1,500 pts. before I touched the other. You'll have fun with both, but you'll want to play some bigger games sooner rather than later. So don't split your efforts.

 

That said, I also really want to make a Khorne list.

[DV8]

More like 53% more. We're talking about each Berzerker being more than 1½ Grey Hunters. That said, if your Grey Hunters are challenging Khorne to a 1 on 1 fight (or 10 on 10) you're doing it wrong. I personally prefer the Grey Hunters for their versatility.

 

I think that if I were you, I would pick one army and build it to 1,500 pts. before I touched the other. You'll have fun with both, but you'll want to play some bigger games sooner rather than later. So don't split your efforts.

 

That said, I also really want to make a Khorne list.

 

I thought Berserkers were 21 points? Or are they 25? I don't have the newest Chaos Codex so I'm not quite sure.

 

Sound advice though. Focus on one, finish it, and then move on. I'd rather have 1 nice, biggish finished army, than 2 tiny ones.

 

DV8

[Grey Mage]

Two things to discuss really but thought I'd just do one thread.

 

1: I'm currently starting a WE army but have always loved the SW's. The new models are fantastic. I like the idea of a small Wolfwing force as I paint very slow and it would be cheaper than my WE (would be all FW). I would later add to the Wolfwing to make it into a great company. But I'm still concearned at having to paint all those faces. So what does everyone else think, should I stick with WE (only got one squad so far) or jump on the SW bandwagon.

 

2: WE are the closest faction on the chaos side and berzerkers have often been said to be one of the best troop choices in the game. So how do SW (Grey hunters) stack up against them?

1) Your WE are all Forgeworld? Ye gads man! Still... stick with them, theyre a good force.

2) Beserkers > Grey Hunters in CC. However Bloodclaws will kill beserkers almost as well as beserkers kill them and GH on the charge hold up pretty well.

 

Best tactic vs them with GHs is to shoot, shoot, and shoot again and then countercharge I find. Bloodclaws should try to get the charge, or at the very least have an HQ with them.

[Vanger]

'zerkers are 21 points a pop. For that they get higher WS, 1 more base attack, higher Ld, Fearless and Furious Charge. All they lose is the bolter.

Also if you covet some of the versatility of Grey Hunters, you can always have a CSM squad with Icon of Khorne :D

 

1on1 is not a good comparison. But let's say the GHs get to fire on the 'zerkesr beforet hey charge, tehn I would say it's an even fight. But hich chaos player would elt his opponent fire on them? :blink:

 

I'd say if you are only interested in Wolfwing, stick with the guys in red ;)