Terminator tactics.

[Aron]

Hi!

Know any good Termi tactics?

 

Oh and Im from Germany so please no comments about false spelling or grammar.

[Isiah]

No issues on the language front – it's just that this topic is in the wrong forum.... so moving it for you.

 

Cheers

I

[Giga]

What termies are we talking about here? Assault or shooty?

 

 

 

 

 

For assault termies, you can't go wrong if you put 5 th/ss termies + Vulkan in a land raider. Just make sure you put extra armor (and a multimelta!) on that LR.

[greatcrusade08]

i prefer Khan and 5 x Claws in a raider... hitting at S5, I5 rerolls on all attacks, Khan can instakill basic characters and each Termy has 4 PW attacks on the charge... great for anti horde.

 

Gc08

[Drudge Dreadnought]

i prefer Khan and 5 x Claws in a raider... hitting at S5, I5 rerolls on all attacks, Khan can instakill basic characters and each Termy has 4 PW attacks on the charge... great for anti horde.

 

Gc08

 

That sounds like massive overkill for anti horde. You can destroy a boyz or gaunt squad on the charge with much cheaper options. And its a lot of points that can't even defend itself from a dread or defiler.

[greatcrusade08]

true but not every unit has to be an all rounder to be successful... aslong as your army has overall balance its fine to run them like this..

That unit as described above will happily chew through a SM tac/assault squad before they even get chance to fight back..

 

Gc08

[Grey Mage]

Im personally a fan of:

 

Seargent with FB+AC, WP, as well as a CF+AC, LC+AC, PW+SS, PF+SS. Good at shooting, durable with runic charms... and can footslog or DP with equal effectiveness. Great spearhead unit.

 

For two more days.

 

With codex terminators? CML on a shooty squad, use them to hold a flank against most things, pop transports and walkers as they slowly and implacably advance up the side. Atleast, thats how I usually run them.

[Aron]

Thanks but I meant the shooti Termies. But now i will also buy some assault Termies.

[ShinyRhino]

I find Shooty Terminators very hard to pin down in a good "role."

If you put them in a Land Raider, they aren't shooting. If you deepstrike them, they aren't assaulting.

Shooty Terminators feel like Tactical Squads that are harder to kill.

The fact that they all have powerfists makes them killer against a vehicle, but easy to take down with sheer numbers.

Cyclone Launchers are almost required gear, giving the Terminators the ability to fire out two frag or krak missiles on the move (per launcher). You can krak open a transport, and then assault the disembarked squad, if you're lucky (and your opponent is silly enough to leave a tansport within 12" of your Terminators.

They also make a nice "rescue squad". Purchase a teleport homer for a defensive objective holding unit (tacticals or scouts). If the enemy gets too close for comfort, and you roll luckily for reserves, you can drop the squad of Terminators in via deepstrike within 6" of the defending unit, and fire out your Stormbolters on arrival. The enemy then has to choose which unit to attack, or attack both and split his targets.

This can also be done offensively by using Scout Bikers' locator beacons. Move the scout bikers to a good forward position, and drop the Terminators in an advantageous spot. You could even drop them in cover, though if it's difficult terrain, you have to take dangerous terrain tests for each model. Luckily, Terminators have an Invulnerable save to take against dangerous terrain wounds.

 

Definitely a tough unit to use, as they are very middle-of-the-road in all ways. Too expensive to use large groups, but not enough killing power to use a really small unit.

[bystrom]

I find Shooty Terminators very hard to pin down in a good "role."

 

Cyclone Launchers are almost required gear, giving the Terminators the ability to fire out two frag or krak missiles on the move (per launcher). You can krak open a transport, and then assault the disembarked squad, if you're lucky (and your opponent is silly enough to leave a tansport within 12" of your Terminators.

 

A transport and the unit inside are two different units, meaning you can't krak a transport and assault the unit the same turn, you've got to destroy the vehicle with another unit, then shoot (this is optional) and charge with the terminators.

[ShinyRhino]

I find Shooty Terminators very hard to pin down in a good "role."

 

Cyclone Launchers are almost required gear, giving the Terminators the ability to fire out two frag or krak missiles on the move (per launcher). You can krak open a transport, and then assault the disembarked squad, if you're lucky (and your opponent is silly enough to leave a tansport within 12" of your Terminators.

 

A transport and the unit inside are two different units, meaning you can't krak a transport and assault the unit the same turn, you've got to destroy the vehicle with another unit, then shoot (this is optional) and charge with the terminators.

 

Incorrect. Wrecking or exploding a transport is the only exception to the "assault what you shot at" rule.

[chapter master 454]

I refuse to use the term 'shooty' to refer to them so I will be using tactical instead (I like sounding somewhat sensible in tactica astartes). They are a very solid choice, in a sence their tactical marines but with a major boost. Bolter now storm bolter, 3+ now 2+ plus 5++, Melee goes from sub-par to 'can hold their own in CC' and weapon choices get upgunned too.

 

I personally have never used assault terminators (mainly because well, lack of models til now. Next game TH/SS rolling out!) and I find tactical terminators great in defence and offence. Defencive wise you are getting continous rapid fire over 24" and with the ability to survive even krak missles in the open, they can hold anywhere. To boot they upgun their weapons power: assault cannon is a trade-off between better heavy armour/heavy infantry killing power or to take the Cyclone Missle Launcher for great light-armour/infantry killing power. (reason for assault cannon being heavy armour: dispite a lascannon looking like a better candidate for heavy armour killing, an assault cannon do marginally better at it, something like .6 or .06 better. Not much boost but when assault cannons tend to be cheaper than lascannons to get them, I find assault cannons good choice).

 

Offencive wise they can do a far better pre-charge shooting, their storm bolters being assault 2 weapons makes them just a nightmare for any infantry horde army like imperial guard. To boot on the charge they get 3 attacks each, sure they attack last but the damage they do is lasting. Give them chainfists and you have the ultimate anti-tank CC unit there is, not much can stand up to 12 chainfist attacks (even mathhammering that gives us 2 hits if it moves 12"<, and thanks to the average of 2d6, that gives the 2 hits a grand total of 15. That penetrates even a land raider) oh and if those defilers and soul grinders get you down don't forget you can chainfist them too, it isn't pretty. Thats why my terminators make carving from the wrecks, the champion of it so far made a goose from a land raiders engine.

 

You can't go wrong taking tactical terminators, they pack a mean punch and while they don't do assault as well as assault terminators, they do range that can leave even horde armies begging for mercy.

[bystrom]

(looks up rule) Ha! Will you look at that! It was so much easier in 4th edition, when you'd only learned one set of rules... Never noticed that rule before...

[Marshal Serion]

Incorrect. Wrecking or exploding a transport is the only exception to the "assault what you shot at" rule.

 

 

This is correct.

 

On page 67, BRB, directly above the insert for "Dedicated Transports" there's 'Note:'.

 

 

It reads as follows:

 

Note:   ... However, if a transport is destroyed (either result) by a ranged attack, the unit that shot it may assault the now disembarked passengers, if it is allowed to assault according to the assault rules.

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

My favorite shooty term build is 10, 2 Cyclones, 2 CFist, Libby, GoI, Null Zone, TDA.

Costs like crazy, but you'll always have those 20 SB and 4 ML shots where you need them.

[minigun762]

My favorite shooty term build is 10, 2 Cyclones, 2 CFist, Libby, GoI, Null Zone, TDA.

Costs like crazy, but you'll always have those 20 SB and 4 ML shots where you need them.

 

How important is the Librarian though?

You already have a squad that can move 6" and fire all its weapons out to 24" atleast, do you not often find you have a valid target with that kind of effective range?

[OIF Knight]

I agree with ShinyRhino here. Shooty termies are very difficult to get to max effectiveness. I only use them for the sake of using variety in my army. Otherwise I tend to use them in a more assaulty role, giving them x2 CF and a HF. I also keep the number to 5 termies as not to get too expensive...personal preference, as I know many of you will find beef with that choice :D Although taking 5 has never let me down, or left me asking, 'why the heck didn't I take more of those'.

 

Regardless of their effectiveness, I find my opponents always shutter when I deep strike my shooties. And yes, the teleport homer is a must have for DSing termies...friends call me a 'scaredy cat' for relying on one, but the first time I land in a forest and lose the squad, they would understand my reasoning :)

 

So, not considering overall killiness, of which I believe they are marginal at overall, the overall 'S' (ty Killhammer) they provide is incredible, if anything that they get into your opponents head (ZOMG terminators nooooo!).

 

When considering which termies to go with, my vote will always be assault termies, 99% of the time riding around in an LRC Limo, all of which held in reserve. If you have the 200 or so points to spend on something fun, go with shooty termies too, they are reliable, if kinda plain.

 

Just my thoughts, I apologize if I have made blasephemy of the Emperor's name :)

[Aron]

Just my thoughts, I apologize if I have made blasephemy of the Emperor's name :)

 

I guess that wasnt blasphimie at all .

Thanks for the tips .

If someone wants to add more please do so.

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

My favorite shooty term build is 10, 2 Cyclones, 2 CFist, Libby, GoI, Null Zone, TDA.

Costs like crazy, but you'll always have those 20 SB and 4 ML shots where you need them.

 

How important is the Librarian though?

You already have a squad that can move 6" and fire all its weapons out to 24" atleast, do you not often find you have a valid target with that kind of effective range?

We play that the Libby can gate out of combat here, helps to get SA krak shots on Russes or bypass cover.

[Warp Angel]

Tactical terminators aren't the beatsticks in close combat that TH/SS terminators are. At 40 points each + weapon upgrades, they end up with firepower slightly greater than that of an equivalently priced tactical squad, with durability against basic shooting that more or less works out the same.

 

Their benefit over tactical squads is the sheer volume of power weapon/fist attacks against monstrous creatures and mech armies. That and their ability to take advantage of a variety of deployment options...

 

Deep strike, LR transport, footslogging, combat squadding, etc. They're a lot more flexible in many ways, BUT...

 

(There's always a BUT)...

 

They aren't scoring units in most armies (some DA and SW builds excepted), they're most effective at close range (despite the 24" storm bolters and 48" krak) and you need an expensive transportation method to move them around the table at faster than 6" per turn (libby with Gate, land raider variant).

 

When building an army this means that you need to make sure you have your base troops and HQ taken care of before you can even begin to consider them. I don't tend to even try and fit tactical terminators into my army until around 2000 points. I find that I get better results in smaller games from having more flexibility.

 

Now that I've been long winded, I suggest if you're going to use them, use them in a hunter or defender role like tactical squads might be used, or possibly as a cleaner unit if you've got good mobility options assigned to them.

[Deathwing]

When you have scoring terminators it changes the dynamic of objective games (and list building to some extent).

 

From my own experiences it allows me to overload my opponent's objectives with a force that requires a lot of attention and if they aren't dealt with soon, the terminators are quite capable of wiping off anything from an objective and holding on to it until the end. The rest of the army can hold the objectives near my DZ and should be more than capable of fighting off whatever forces are sent against them.

Non scoring tactical terminators can effectively be ignored (storm bolter fire is much more desirable than powerfists in close combat) and the opponent can focus on removing your scoring units from your objectives.

 

If the terminators aren't scoring, they are less useful and I'd prefer a squad of Sternguard (who can be scoring with Pedro) for shooting or pure assault terminators for close combat (Hammernators are a pain in the butt to deal with).

[minigun762]

Their benefit over tactical squads is the sheer volume of power weapon/fist attacks against monstrous creatures and mech armies. That and their ability to take advantage of a variety of deployment options...

 

I must be alone in thinking that the main advantage of (Loyalist) Terminators is the ability to move and shoot. This gives you a good 30" effective range, compared to 18" for a Tactical Marine. Factor in the ability to move and fire your heavy weapons and you're much better off then a comparable Tactical squad until the Tactical squad is within rapid fire range.

 

The ability to fire off your Storm Bolters and then charge is just the icing on the cake. :P Tasty!

[ShinyRhino]

You're definitely not alone, minigun. I like that 30" threat range, too.

Another thing I have a hard time deciding is how to deploy them. I rarely have the points to buy a full 10-man squad, and don't have a Land Raider yet. That leaves me the option of deepstriking them, or walking them on from the board edge.

Both methods of arrival are equally valid when you consider they're Relentless. You have to remember that you don't necessarily have to drop them right on top of the bad guys to still be able to shoot them, with the 24" range of a Stormbolter or AssCannon, or the 48" of the Cyclone. You DO have to drop them right on top if you plan to use the Heavy Flamer. You could find a nice, clear dropzone to land in with minimal risk of deepstrike mishap, and use that hefty range to blast away at your target.

If you walk them on from the board edge, you have a 30" Stormbolter/AssCannon range from the edge of the board, and 54" from the board edge with the Cyclone! Plus, they can still assault in that mode. If they arrive late in the game, they can clear interlopers from your deployment zone with extreme prejudice.

The trick, however, is that you have to declare HOW they're arriving before the game even begins. You can't put them in reserve and decide when the roll for them is successful. You've got to declare deepstrike or walk-ons, which allows your opponent to play accordingly.

Of course, if he forgets about them because you set your tasty beverage on your army board in front of them... :P

 

I have major issues deciding deployment method and combat squads in all of my games, so Terminators jsut throw another equation into the problem that I'm already having trouble solving.

[DerekLee688]

As of now I only own 5 from the AoBr set. Only having the models to run a 1500pt. tourney I've decided running them in a land raider is too many eggs in one basket. I've been burned by the librarians gate and am leary of it now. So if I run them in the near future, it will be escorting a foot slogging tac squad in addition to or instead of a dread. Tac's would be fine assault fodder to connect with 8-12 PF hits and not woring about the initative.

[Malladrius]

What I do with my shooty terminators is take a squad of 5 with Lysander and watch them eat any unit they deepstrike near. :P They do tend to attract a lot of fire when doing that but it just makes it easier for the rest of the army to get into posistion.