Deamonhunter Tanks

[Gibious]

After reading up on Heavy support and armour, I am left with a lot of questions.

 

1- Where in our Codex does it state that our LandRaiders have Machine Spirit, and where are the rules for this?

 

2- Other than a slight mention under LRC Frag launchers. Where does it state about being able to assult out of a transport when the BRB dis-allows this?

 

3- Could you bring a LR transport for an Inq Lord even if you didnt have any GK in your army. What about radical?

 

4- When firing out of a Rhino, it becomes open topped. Could that mean everyone can fire from a Rhino just like an open topped vehical?

 

5- Can you pop a tank with a IST Melta, and then shoot the cargo with with tank? They are different entities. What about using Machine spirit like this?

 

6- LRC states it hurricane bolters are eq to 3 twin-linked boltguns. I know of Bolter, Stom Bolters, Heavy Bolters and Bolt Pistols. So what is a boltgun? Can its ammo be psy-charged?

 

Thank you for your help.

 

-Gib-

[deedark]

After reading up on Heavy support and armour, I am left with a lot of questions.

 

1- Where in our Codex does it state that our LandRaiders have Machine Spirit, and where are the rules for this?

 

Think this is FAQ update on GW website

 

2- Other than a slight mention under LRC Frag launchers. Where does it state about being able to assult out of a transport when the BRB dis-allows this?

 

LR is an assault vehicle with a special rule - so you can assault from a LR, normally you cant assault directly on disembarking from a vehicle

 

3- Could you bring a LR transport for an Inq Lord even if you didnt have any GK in your army. What about radical?

 

Dont know

 

4- When firing out of a Rhino, it becomes open topped. Could that mean everyone can fire from a Rhino just like an open topped vehical?

 

No only 2 fire points available so 2 models may fire. Counting as moving if vehicle moves

 

5- Can you pop a tank with a IST Melta, and then shoot the cargo with with tank? They are different entities. What about using Machine spirit like this?

 

Tank/Vehicles can target different targets to passengers so Yes

 

6- LRC states it hurricane bolters are eq to 3 twin-linked boltguns. I know of Bolter, Stom Bolters, Heavy Bolters and Bolt Pistols. So what is a boltgun? Can its ammo be psy-charged?

 

Boltguns on a LRC are Twin linked Heavy Bolters as for ammo?

 

Hope that helps

[Nelo Akuma]

1- Where in our Codex does it state that our LandRaiders have Machine Spirit, and where are the rules for this?

 

2- Other than a slight mention under LRC Frag launchers. Where does it state about being able to assult out of a transport when the BRB dis-allows this?

 

The answer is in the FAQ you can find here. Keep in mind that this only counts for GREY KNIGHT LR and LRC; not for the transport options of the Inquisitor.

 

3- Could you bring a LR transport for an Inq Lord even if you didnt have any GK in your army. What about radical?

 

Your Inquisitor (HQ and Elite choice) can take a LR as a transporter without the presence of a GK Hero. same applies for a radical Inquisitor. Note that those LR only have access to the upgrades mentioned in the box on top of the Codex page.

 

 

4- When firing out of a Rhino, it becomes open topped. Could that mean everyone can fire from a Rhino just like an open topped vehical?

 

The Rhino only becomes open-topped for the purpose being fired at. as per Codex only one model can fire from inside the Rhino. (the second fire point as found in any current Codex has not been FAQed and hence we have to live with only one.)

 

5- Can you pop a tank with a IST Melta, and then shoot the cargo with with tank? They are different entities. What about using Machine spirit like this?

 

If you have the squad disembark from the Chimera/Rhino then yes, you can pop a tank with the IST and then use the Chimera/Rhino to shoot what was inside.

Yes you can use Machine Spirit to shot the contents of a transport vehicle after popping it with (probably) the Godhammers.

 

6- LRC states it hurricane bolters are eq to 3 twin-linked boltguns. I know of Bolter, Stom Bolters, Heavy Bolters and Bolt Pistols. So what is a boltgun? Can its ammo be psy-charged?

 

A Boltgun is a Bolter, read: each Hurricane Bolt System works the same way as 3 twin-Linked Bolters. As per Codex you can take the Psycannon Bolts on a vehicle ONLY for a Storm Bolter or a Heavy Bolter. Some people argue that if the man-carried Bolter can get Psycannon Bolts, vehicle-mounted Bolter should be able to do that as well but the FAQ has ruled no such thing. as it stands we have to play by RAW.

 

- Nelo Akuma

[Gibious]

1+2 Thank you for answering this, looks like the LR's do live up to all the hype people make online.

 

3 Again thank you, at least then if I want to use Deamonhosts I can still use the £60 and 500pts I'm planing to get.

 

4 Well at least I could do a single melta drive by...

 

5 You both kinda contradict each other. Like Deedark answerd, I am about firing from the cargo bay.

 

6 So the Psycannon Bolts Vehical upgrade is only for the Dread and GodHammer?

 

This has helped a lot, cheers =)

 

-Gib-

[deedark]

Not greatly familiar with the codex thought the 2 fire point rhino was standard - I stand corrected

 

As for point 5 (if not contradicted in your codex) current IG rules allow 5 models to fire from a Chimera back hatch (The vehicle having moved and distance moved effects shooting)

 

The unit inside, and the chimera are two separate units. They can therefore, target 2 different enemy units

 

D.

[Grand Master Tchezzarus]

My dex is in french, and is a second printing dex... so it may differ from yours!

But it's written that a rhino got 1 hatch from wich 2 minis can fire.

Tchezz.

[deedark]

Hold on perhaps we are a crossed purposes, one fire point but two models use that point. As opposed to two fire points

 

Thats what Codex:SM rhino's get, I play wolves and we had 2 varying editions of the same dex, so these sort of things do change without FAQs.

 

D.

[number6]

Looks like most of the questions have been satisfactorily answered. Except for this one.

5- Can you pop a tank with a IST Melta, and then shoot the cargo with with tank? They are different entities. What about using Machine spirit like this?

For the first half of the question: yes. Even when the ISTs are embarked in the Rhino/Chimera. Embarked passengers always fire separately from the vehicle upon which they are embarked.

 

For the second half of the question: No. A land raider with Machine Spirit must announce all of its targets at once, before firing any weapons. It is thus impossible for the vehicle to target both a transport and any passengers that might be exposed should the vehicle get destroyed. At the time you announce targets, only the enemy vehicle itself would be a legal target.

[Nelo Akuma]

I stand corrected on question 5: the issue never came up under 5ed rules for me so i assumed it would be the same as under 4ed rules. learned something new.

 

@ deedark: One Fire Point = One Model firing. after consulting my local Department of Intelligence, aka reading my rule book: on page 66, section Fire Points, second paragraph it says to for each fire point, unless specified differently in the vehicle's entry, one model may shoot from said fire point.

 

And no matter how much we, the people using an outdated Codex, argue: unless our opponent is cool with us using the newer rules (fire points on Rhino, Assault Cannon, etc) we are bound to the rules listed in our Codex.

[deedark]

And no matter how much we, the people using an outdated Codex, argue: unless our opponent is cool with us using the newer rules (fire points on Rhino, Assault Cannon, etc) we are bound to the rules listed in our Codex.

 

I agree, but is does seem that GMTs codex gives him 2 firers per rhino fire point in his revised edition /french version - harsh eh!

 

and outdated I play wolves 10 years sir 10 years, all ending this saturday, I tell you I know outdated

[avatar8481]

For the second half of the question: No. A land raider with Machine Spirit must announce all of its targets at once, before firing any weapons. It is thus impossible for the vehicle to target both a transport and any passengers that might be exposed should the vehicle get destroyed. At the time you announce targets, only the enemy vehicle itself would be a legal target.

 

Source? I've always played that the Machine Spirit was a separate firer, the way an embarked squad would be. Do you have a citation?

[Doomaflatchi]

And no matter how much we, the people using an outdated Codex, argue: unless our opponent is cool with us using the newer rules (fire points on Rhino, Assault Cannon, etc) we are bound to the rules listed in our Codex.

 

I agree, but is does seem that GMTs codex gives him 2 firers per rhino fire point in his revised edition /french version - harsh eh!

 

and outdated I play wolves 10 years sir 10 years, all ending this saturday, I tell you I know outdated

The French Codes is, in fact, different. Check the Gotcha FAQ stickied at the top of the forum - those using the French Codex can have two models shoot out of the single Rhino fire point, and everyone else can only shoot with one. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

[Inquisitor Fox]

For the second half of the question: No. A land raider with Machine Spirit must announce all of its targets at once, before firing any weapons. It is thus impossible for the vehicle to target both a transport and any passengers that might be exposed should the vehicle get destroyed. At the time you announce targets, only the enemy vehicle itself would be a legal target.

 

Source? I've always played that the Machine Spirit was a separate firer, the way an embarked squad would be. Do you have a citation?

The basic shooting rules are the source. The Land Raider is one model, and basic rules state that a model must fire all of its shots at the same target, unless there is a specific rule or piece of wargear that allows this (Super-Heavies and Commander Shadowsun for the Tau are the only notable exceptions I can think of). The Machine Spirit mentions the vehicle can fire one additional weapon more than otherwise allowed, but does not change the fact that the Land Raider is still a single model.

[Thaelion Hexis]

To be honest, I had never noticed that about the Rhino before now. I just read it, 1 fire point, no mention of more than one model firing from it. Chimeras are more my thing anyway.

[jeffersonian000]

The old Chapter Approved updates listed all Rhinos as having one (1) top hatch fire point that allowed two (2) models to fire from it. However, with 5th edition, our codex no longer benefits from the old Chapter Approved articles, limiting us to only one (1) firer per fire point for Rhinos. The WH FAQ fixed it for them, and while it is obvious that the fix was intended to cover both Hunter 'Dexes, the fact of the matter is that without appearing as an erreta in the DH FAQ, we are not "legally" able to claim the WH FAQ as a reference for DH units.

 

SJ

[Grand Master Caloth]

For the second half of the question: No. A land raider with Machine Spirit must announce all of its targets at once, before firing any weapons. It is thus impossible for the vehicle to target both a transport and any passengers that might be exposed should the vehicle get destroyed. At the time you announce targets, only the enemy vehicle itself would be a legal target.

 

Source? I've always played that the Machine Spirit was a separate firer, the way an embarked squad would be. Do you have a citation?

The basic shooting rules are the source. The Land Raider is one model, and basic rules state that a model must fire all of its shots at the same target, unless there is a specific rule or piece of wargear that allows this (Super-Heavies and Commander Shadowsun for the Tau are the only notable exceptions I can think of). The Machine Spirit mentions the vehicle can fire one additional weapon more than otherwise allowed, but does not change the fact that the Land Raider is still a single model.

 

 

Machine Sprit has always allowed to fire at a different target. And he rules for the rhino is if anything with LESS than a 3+ is firing out of the back it counts as open-topped for purposes of damage.

[sheisaguy]

Machine Sprit has always allowed to fire at a different target. And the rules for the rhino is if anything with LESS than a 3+ is firing out of the back it counts as open-topped for purposes of damage.

 

 

Hihi!!!

 

I've been playing daemonhunters for quite awhile now and have been a long time lurker on these boards as well. 1 thing that puzzles me still after all these months of reading through the numerous posts and daemonhunter gotcha FAQ, is our rhino rules. Specifically passengers firing out of it.

 

Contrary to what Grand Master Caloth stated above, our codex rule for rhino states 'A Rhino or Chimera using its top hatch as a fire point will count as open-topped if the saving throw of any of its passengers is worse than 3+.' No where does it say it counts as open-topped for purposes of damage.

 

Knowing that tournies usually go with RAW instead of RAI, the last couple of tournies in my area actually ruled that as long as your IST shoot from within the Rhino, you get all the pros as well as cons of 'count as open-topped', i.e everyone gets to shoot from within. Not only that, even in regular games, all my opponents have allowed me to fire with everyone in the Rhino.

 

So am I missing something in the codex and/or FAQ or is everyone here just playing it as RAI instead?

 

Btw, since we're on the topic of Daemonhunter tanks, Grey Knights Land Raider and Grey Knights Land Raider Crusader specifically states 'may carry up to X Grey Knights in power armour or X/2 Grey Knight Terminators.' Does that mean there's actually a bouncer standing by the LR doors not admitting entry to anyone who's not a grey knight?