Natanael Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Hi guys. For the last weeks I've been trying to get some wolves ready, but only managed to dig up some old models and paint a few GHs to TT-standard. So I started thinking about what to go for with an army list, and I've made several but noone that really get me going. So, in the end, I come to you for help. I have got almost every option in the codex, since I only bought some PA-models and got a little stuff left from my last SW army. What I got is this: 60 PA Space Wolves - the can be made as both BCs and GHs, so dont be shy to suggest anything about theise guys. 5 Terminators - Right now they are 4x PW, CPlasma, 1x AC, PF, but they can be made in a different shape. 7 Scouts - 2x Plasma Pistol, 1 Meltagun and the rest is CCW/BP, but I can make 2x PWs quite easy. 1 LS Typhoon 1 Logan Grimnar 1 Wolf Lord And thats it. I don't have to use everything, and I can buy a lot (yeah, well some at least) new stuff lite transports, tanks and stuff. Also, I will be ordering 5 plasma guns and 5 meltaguns (already got 2 plasmas and 1 melta). Flamers I can get from firends if needed, as well as plasma pistol. Anyway, so I was thinking; What would you guys do to make this a playabe army? Go all on foot? Buy a rhino-horde? Pods? Anything goes. Please, give me som tips and tricks, and some suggestions. I really need it. Got the codex today, so I've got all the rules and stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180061-help-me-build-an-army-since-i-find-it-reallt-hard-myself/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leman Of The Russ Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 You can't have Logan AND a Wolf Lord [as Wolf Lords are limited to one and Logan IS a Wolf Lord. Form the PAs into 6 Bllod Claw Packs, and give them as many Power Weapons as possible. Have the terminators as Wolf Gaurd for Logan [as they can't lead Blood Claws or Scouts, and the scouts are fine-make sure to give them Meltabombs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180061-help-me-build-an-army-since-i-find-it-reallt-hard-myself/#findComment-2131771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligncomedy Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 You can't have Logan AND a Wolf Lord [as Wolf Lords are limited to one and Logan IS a Wolf Lord. Form the PAs into 6 Bllod Claw Packs, and give them as many Power Weapons as possible. Have the terminators as Wolf Gaurd for Logan [as they can't lead Blood Claws or Scouts, and the scouts are fine-make sure to give them Meltabombs. Excuse me but where does it say that? From my interpretation it simply says 4 HQs, no doubling up on sagas and no doubling up on wargear/psychic power combinations. And also I am pretty sure speial characters do not count towards your max in terms of wargear/psychic power combinations and sagas. But I may be wrong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180061-help-me-build-an-army-since-i-find-it-reallt-hard-myself/#findComment-2131930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leman Of The Russ Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Wolf Lords are 0-1 limit. Thats where it says that. And also I am pretty sure speial characters do not count towards your max in terms of wargear/psychic power combinations and sagas. But I may be wrong. And your right about that. 4 HQs=awesomeness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180061-help-me-build-an-army-since-i-find-it-reallt-hard-myself/#findComment-2131940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rahl02 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Wolf Lords are 0-1 limit. Thats where it says that. And also I am pretty sure speial characters do not count towards your max in terms of wargear/psychic power combinations and sagas. But I may be wrong. And your right about that. 4 HQs=awesomeness. Leman you're sounding like a troll, NOWHERE in the new codex does it have ANY hq limit. You could take 4x Wolf Lords, 4x Wolf Priests, or 4x Rune Priest. In the 3rd ED codex we had the 0-1 limit, but GW has pretty much done away with that. Also we can take an all bloodclaw army if we wanted since Grey Hunters are 1+. Special characters, kinda do and kinda don't count for combos, in the White Dwarf Kelly had Njarl and another Rune priest, that tells me that you can combine SC with standard equiv. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180061-help-me-build-an-army-since-i-find-it-reallt-hard-myself/#findComment-2131981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 and again, ANOTHER wrong post from Leman of the Russ. the restrictions on Wolf Lords, as well as those on RP, WP, IP and VD are gone. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180061-help-me-build-an-army-since-i-find-it-reallt-hard-myself/#findComment-2131984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 @ the OP: Id say your first order of buisness is to figure out how many of your PA marines you can still use in GH squads. Since its two special weapons at 10 youll probly want more of them than you had, while PWs and PFs are probly in a bit of a surplus. Personally I find 2x MG and 2x PG to be enticing options, while 2x Flamers will be a rarity for me. If your SCCW models prove to extensive to convert over you might try turning them into Wolf Gaurd- in wich case I reccommend taking the Powerfists on them as opposed to the GH for the extra attack. Sadly, from what Im told, a PF+SS WGPL will run 58pts, though I suppose thats not much worse than it has been... only +8pts. Still, thats a runic charm and wolf pelt in the old days, wich made alot more killy and tough. Sorry, Im getting a bit melancholy with the end so close in sight, despite the coolness Im sure awaits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180061-help-me-build-an-army-since-i-find-it-reallt-hard-myself/#findComment-2131992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Forgetful Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 edit: rahl02 beat me to it. Hadn't updated the thread. :D - Forgetful Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180061-help-me-build-an-army-since-i-find-it-reallt-hard-myself/#findComment-2131998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natanael Posted September 30, 2009 Author Share Posted September 30, 2009 Well, thanks Grey Mage for your input. My PA-marines can be any way I want. Right now they have no armament at all, and can all be given bolters, pistols, ccws and whatever you need. To everyone else: Please read my first post before posting a comment, so you don't have to be corrected. I don't want this thread evolving into some kind of crap-throwing thread, or something like that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180061-help-me-build-an-army-since-i-find-it-reallt-hard-myself/#findComment-2132061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Oh... well if they are fresh out of the box so to speak, do you have enough to make 4 Meltagunners, 4 plasmaguners, 2 Flamers and 40 Bolter Grey Hunters? Mix in some Dual wielding pistolers and some chain sword +bolter guys to represent their true grit and youve got 5 full Grey Hunter packs ready to go. Consider 3-4 PW wielding Grey Hunters for some CC goodness. The other 6-7 GHs you could make into alternates or PA wolf gaurd. I suggest the latter, combiweapons and PFs or PW/LC and something fun. You can take these as the rest of your TDA pack and then detach them into the GHs to give them some rather effective seargents. Another option would be to make a 5 man Long Fang squad with the heavy weapons of your choice *id go anti tank with 2x ML and 2 LC, but thats me* and a couple of Pack Leaders. Your scouts sound fine as is- though if you can get ahold of three more you might consider having a shooty pack and a CC pack, so you have some options there. Future purchases: Dreadnaught *1 or 2*, Whirlwind, Rhinos or drop pods? and maybe a landraider depending on your playstyle. A 15 strong Fenrisian Wolf Pack or some BCJPs wouldnt go ammiss either to give you a bit of speed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180061-help-me-build-an-army-since-i-find-it-reallt-hard-myself/#findComment-2132218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Grey Mage is right, get as many GH going as you can with that list I would run your WG squad pretty much as you have it listed. not need to get crazy with these guys. maybe two SS/PW upgrades for the extra protection. Delivering these guys comes in three ways; foot, DP, LR. I would choose DP and get another DP for a GH Squad w/ a WG. Run Rhinos for the GH as Grey Mage mentioned. Along with the LF pack get about 10 Fen Wolves to run as a screen for the LF. Vindicator would not hurt. That will give you about a 2k list pretty easy. WG Vrox Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180061-help-me-build-an-army-since-i-find-it-reallt-hard-myself/#findComment-2132415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natanael Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 Thx for the help, Mage and Vrox. I am aimin for a 1750pts army, since that is what we usually play in tournaments at my local store. With your tips in mind, I've made a list that I can see is lacking, but also seems quite fun to play and play against. I know that I have no long range firepower, and I dont have a lot of bodies. Even so, my close range and CC-power makes up for that, I think, and all my units have the ability to close quickly with the enemy. This is the list I've been working with: Wolf Lord - 170 points Frost Blade, Storm Shield, Saga of the Beastslayer, Meltabombs 10 Wolf Guard - 250 (terminators) + 230 (power armour) 515 points total 3x TDA, PW, combi-Plasma 1x TDA, AC, PW 1x TDA, AC, PF 4x TH, combi-Melta 1x FB, BP Drop Pod - 35 points 6 Wolf Scouts - 145 points Meltagun, 2x Plasma Pistol, MotW 6 Wolf Scouts - 145 points Meltagun, 2x Plasma Pistol, MotW 8 Grey Hunters - 225 points Meltagun, Plasma Pistol, Power Fist, MotW, Wolf Standard, Rhino 9 Grey Hunters - 230 points Plasmagun, Power Fist, MotW, Wolf Standard, Rhino 9 Grey Hunters - 230 points Plasmagun, Power Fist, MotW, Wolf Standard, Rhino Land Speeder Typhoon - 90 points = 1750 points One power armoured WG in each squad, frost blade one goes with meltaGHs. Plan is to drop my TDA not to agressive, but to limit enemy movement and maybe take out a vital unit/HQ or something. If I drop close enough they will pour out 8 AC shots and 6 plasma shots. =D They will also act as a distraction, and hopefully make it into later turns, when support is there. What do you think? Right now my main concern is the long range. But then again, enemy armies tend to either come closer, or just stand still. In any case I am happy, since my WG and Scouts can handle a gunline quite well, and my GHs are superb if the enemy closes the gap too. Also, to play this list I just have to buy 3 rhinos, a pod and a scout pack. Not much, I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180061-help-me-build-an-army-since-i-find-it-reallt-hard-myself/#findComment-2132512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilmerlin Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I'm not sure what the point cost is like (no codex yet) but perhaps you switch out one assault cannon for a cyclone missile launcher? Gives you a bit more options when dropping in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180061-help-me-build-an-army-since-i-find-it-reallt-hard-myself/#findComment-2132529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natanael Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 Yeh, same points cost in dex. Problem is that I have got another AC, but no CML :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180061-help-me-build-an-army-since-i-find-it-reallt-hard-myself/#findComment-2132542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Thats alright... youve got plenty of AT there... its just all rather short ranged. So your going to have to be very agressive B E AGRESSIVE in most of your fights. Personally Id drop the fists down for a PW on your GH squads- to give you something at initiative, though the PF on the squad with the meltaguns is a solid choice. I take it your WL rides with the 8 man pack? If you drop those and one of the Scout packs you could throw down for a TLLC dreadnaught, whose higher armor would give you a little help in preserving your rhinos. If needed I would drop MotW from a squad or two to make sure hes venerable- that reroll has saved my life so many times its not even funny. This would of course require buying a dreadnaught, though youd have to buy scouts for the current build anyways. If there happens to be enough points left over after that I would upgrade one TDA C-P to a SS for a little extra survivability. But hey, thats just my take. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180061-help-me-build-an-army-since-i-find-it-reallt-hard-myself/#findComment-2132550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natanael Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 I dont know about the dread. I mean, he is very slow compared to everything else, and I lose one of my scout pack = I lose my 2nd heavy wpn on the terminators since I have nowhere to put my last WG. Same goes with loosing one GH squad, and also that takes me down to just 2 troops. They will get shot to hell, I think, since they are not that many. But maybe I should try it. I've already got a dread. Maybe I forgot to mention it :) And if I drop scouts + GH I might as well go with some long fangs, for ranged firepower. They are cheap, and with some tweaking I might be able to get a dread in as well. Otherwise maybe I should go all foot-slogging, with a singe WG-pod dropping in. Adding in a few long fangs, taking away the transports and getting another GH squad in, would this be viable? I could also skip the scouts altogether and play with two TLLC/ML-dreads, for long range? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180061-help-me-build-an-army-since-i-find-it-reallt-hard-myself/#findComment-2132570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Well... that last WG could be dropped for some SS on your TDA models, or extra stormbolters or extra armor on your rhinos. I would keep all three GH squads though. 1 scoring unit per 500pts is a good rule of thumb... helps keep you competitive. The only thing I would drop from your GHs to free up points would be MotW, if needed. I hear its about the same points as a powerfist. And the point of the dread wouldnt be to be speedy, but to give you a bit of ranged armor that could advance implacably forward, hopefully popping enemy tanks as it went. Mobile Firesupport as it were. Once it hits the enemy lines its decent in HtH sept against monstrous creatures were its at a disadvantage. However the fact that it takes a little longer to get there isnt an issue- just more time to shoot eh? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180061-help-me-build-an-army-since-i-find-it-reallt-hard-myself/#findComment-2132578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natanael Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 Yeh, well. Then I'd rather go with 2 shooty dreads for support, and giving even more tagets w/ higher AV. But then I have to drop my Scouts altogether. If I drop both scout packs I need another 120 points to get two TLLC/ML ven dreads. I can get it by dropping the two WGs that the scouts should have had, and the second AC. Then I even have 31 pts left (since I give the former AC WG a combi-Plasma). That is extra armour on two rhinos, or something else? MotW is the same as a power weapon, and as such not that much of a save pointswise, but it gives me some points to play with. That way, the list would look like this: Wolf Lord - 170 points Frost Blade, Storm Shield, Saga of the Beastslayer, Meltabombs 10 Wolf Guard - 195 (terminators) + 134 (power armour) 329 points total 4x TDA, PW, combi-Plasma 1x TDA, AC, PF 2x TH, combi-Melta 1x FB, BP Drop Pod - 35 points Ven Dread - 205 points TLLC, ML Ven Dread - 205 points TLLC, ML 8 Grey Hunters - 240 points Meltagun, Plasma Pistol, Power Fist, MotW, Wolf Standard, Rhino, EA 9 Grey Hunters - 245 points Plasmagun, Power Fist, MotW, Wolf Standard, Rhino, EA 9 Grey Hunters - 230 points Plasmagun, Power Fist, MotW, Wolf Standard, Rhino Land Speeder Typhoon - 90 points = 1749 points Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180061-help-me-build-an-army-since-i-find-it-reallt-hard-myself/#findComment-2132599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 little confused on your TDA pack. you say tiy have 10 Wolf Guard but I think thats a typo and you mean 8. The points you have listed is 329, I come up with 394. for the 8 listed including the DP, so you might want to recheck points. The 5 WG in TDA comes to 260 with DP and the three WG shown comes to 134. If you are 70 points over, drop one of your Ven Dreds back down to a normal dred. Other than that you list looks like its ready for a playtest. Let us know how it goes for ya. I would proxy the list before I made any purchases. WG Vrox. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180061-help-me-build-an-army-since-i-find-it-reallt-hard-myself/#findComment-2132927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natanael Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 Right, thank you Vrox. I'll make the changes you said, and try to steamroll a few friends =D Probably will get a few games in tomorrow or saturday. Anyway, thanks to all of you who helped, especially Vrox and Grey Mage. When the Fang helps, I got two nice lists. When I do it by myself = 1000 bad lists :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180061-help-me-build-an-army-since-i-find-it-reallt-hard-myself/#findComment-2133041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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