TheLastHuzzah Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Greetings All, Don't post too often but I've been hanging out on the SW forums for quite a while. So today, I got my hands on the new SW and there was much rejoicing followed by a bottle of Dragon's Milk. I have been feverishly flipping through the new codex taking in as much as I can, and an Epiphany hit me. I am no rules hero, but it seems that the option is viable, let me know what you think. The WG entry allows for 10 models, and access to terminator special weapons. At the beginning of the game pack members can be detached to act as Pack leaders. Why not throw one of the assault cannon/cyclone missile carriers into a footslogging pack of GH with a pair of plasmaguns and set-up a bit of of fire base? The remainder of the pack could be an escort for a character in one of the various LRs. Haven't played with points, but probably wouldn't consider it until 2000. Brilliant? Eh? Huzzah, are you a dummy? Read the rules! Cheers, Huzzah Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 You are absoultely right, this has been spoken of with much anticipation for the firepower it brings. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/#findComment-2133646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtee Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 You are absoultely right, this has been spoken of with much anticipation for the firepower it brings. You will loose the option to run though :( which makes me sad pup Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/#findComment-2133653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 You are absoultely right, this has been spoken of with much anticipation for the firepower it brings. You will loose the option to run though :( which makes me sad pup Terminators can't run? As far as I knew it only prevented sweeping advances. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/#findComment-2133657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtee Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 You are absoultely right, this has been spoken of with much anticipation for the firepower it brings. You will loose the option to run though :( which makes me sad pup Terminators can't run? As far as I knew it only prevented sweeping advances. if you gear your GH squad to give fire power while moving up, if you shoot, you no runny! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/#findComment-2133659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastHuzzah Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 I wasn't overly concerned with the loss of sweeping advance, as they are meant to park their hairy butts on an objective and bring the pain. -Huzzah Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/#findComment-2133661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokafort Stonewolf Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Why would you EVER want to run GH within 12" of the enemy? MAYBE in cyclone/assault cannon range, but never when the rest of the unit could fire... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/#findComment-2133662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I believe the purpose of this pack/pack style is more of a sit at home unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/#findComment-2133663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Just got back from a game and in my list I had a WG model in TDA with CML join a GH pack of 5, he brought with him a LR as a WG pack can have it as a dedicated transport. I put in a Rune Priest with Chain Lightning and I now have a fire base that can fit inside the little fire arc triagle that forms in front of the Land Raider. Gave the RP SoBS and chooser to enhance the Pys Power. Worked out pretty well, but could not roll over a 3 on my D6 roll. In my next game I plan to put a pack of Fen Wolves in front of the squad to provide them a cover save WG Vrox. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/#findComment-2133679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDS Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Ah, Vrox, you bring up an interesting point. Can a WG sent to lead a GH or BC pack bring his LR with him? If so, can they all start the game deployed inside it? If so, what about scouts? If so, what happens with OBEL? AH, my head hurts. Suspected uses: The Rock, LRR, BC's fill seats TDA WG/Cyclone, RP, GH, LR Very nice. Not sure this is addressed in the codex. BDS Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/#findComment-2134267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 You would not be able to deploy GHs in the WG land raider. The Land Raider belongs to the wolf guard pack, so you would have to embark in turn 1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/#findComment-2134278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDS Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 I agree twould be too good to be true if utilized that way. But, say you take 3 WG (squad size is 3-10). You take a LRR variant for the squad. You put all three WG with a GH or BC squad. Is the LR variant still a dedicated transport? I can see the answer being yes it is. No one can then deploy in the LR 1st run, but anyone could ride in it after that. Thoug the codex may not be clear either way. Now, say you take Logan Grimnar..... Then, I could take a squad of GH as troops and put them in a LR as their dedicated transport. So you could in a DoW set up......put The Rock, HQ, and bunch of WG in a LRR during deployment and have at it....very nice. BDS Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/#findComment-2135037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeti Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 I agree twould be too good to be true if utilized that way. But, say you take 3 WG (squad size is 3-10). You take a LRR variant for the squad. You put all three WG with a GH or BC squad. Is the LR variant still a dedicated transport? Well, it's one WG only as a pack leader, so you can't really do this. But that doesn't negate the possibility of the pack leader taking the Land Raider with him and leaving the other two to do whatever else. Worst comes to worst ... just buy a Land Raider as a HS support choice. No more headaches. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/#findComment-2135044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 You would not be able to deploy GHs in the WG land raider. The Land Raider belongs to the wolf guard pack, so you would have to embark in turn 1 The Land Raider is a dedicated transport to the WG unit, however I split my WG to 5 differnt squads. There no longer is a WG unit and thus the LR must belong to a single WG of my choice. The WG that accepted the LR has joined with a GH pack they are now one unit and thus receive the benefit of using the LR as their dedicated transport along with the WG. The RP joins the unit outside of the game much like a DP force and we have my 2 troop choices and HQ for my dawn of war games. I don't want to play it wrong, but I must ask where in the rules does it say I can not do this? WG Vrox. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/#findComment-2135049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDS Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 @Yeti, Well the benefit would be...you could take two LF squads and a WW for example and still give a LR to a troop choice without choosing Logan Grimnar as your HQ. THe DoW set ups are also appealing for CC oriented armies. I will be scrutinizing this when I pick up my codex Sunday. I am leaning that the LR can not follow the WG, but would wish I was proven wrong if you get my meaning. But for the sake of discussion the LR is a transport option for a WG squad. If the squad is dissipated the LR remains a dedicated transport. So, I believe this is not possible not that I think it through. BDS Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/#findComment-2135055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryzouken Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 The Land Raider is a dedicated transport to the WG unit, however I split my WG to 5 differnt squads. There no longer is a WG unit and thus the LR must belong to a single WG of my choice. The WG that accepted the LR has joined with a GH pack they are now one unit and thus receive the benefit of using the LR as their dedicated transport along with the WG. The RP joins the unit outside of the game much like a DP force and we have my 2 troop choices and HQ for my dawn of war games. I don't want to play it wrong, but I must ask where in the rules does it say I can not do this? WG Vrox. I disagree with your reading of the rules once we get to "they are now one unit and thus receive..." It seems that our erstwhile Wolf Guard is being considered a part of two different units. This is problematic because there is no other unit in the game that is considered to be part of two seperate units simultaneously. It would appear that the intent behind the Pack Leaders rule is that the Wolf Guard being split off sever their ties with the unit of wolf guard and instead are treated as upgrade characters of the inheriting pack, but this is conjecture. The more I consider it, the more I lean toward WG becoming a part of the new squad. Consider: What if our GH squad took a razorback transport, then had the WG attach with the land raider as dedicated transport? We'd have a unit with two dedicated transports? The difference between Wolf Guard and Rune Priests has to do with the Independent Character rules and their application. Wolf Guard are not IC's, thus these rules do not apply to them. Honestly, it would have been nice if GW spelled out exactly how WG are to be treated with regard to dedicated transports, scoring status, what happens when the inherited squad dies, kill point status, etc. Instead, we have a maddeningly simple statement that opens up to a ton of abuse. I don't think you'll make your opponents particularly happy with this interpretation, you should bring it up with them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/#findComment-2135072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Your statement got me thinking about it this way. During the creation of your list at the time there is no WG pack, there no longer is an option to add a LR so the LR floats and ends up in the Heavy catagory. All I can say is it sounded like a good idea at the time. :) Vrox. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/#findComment-2135077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
saphius Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 I disagree with it being a heavy if you split up your unit. It was bought originally as a dedicated transport. If you've already purchased 3 heavies, then it by default cannot be a heavy. At the very least, it would be a dedicated transport for no one. (Which means you'd just have to embark turn one). I think around here we'll probably just treat it as a Transport for a selected unit that a WG joined and already doesn't have a dedicated transport, or just treat it as a 'free' unit in essence. Either way... I don't think by any reasoning it would ever get stuck into a heavy slot. Creates more problems than it solves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/#findComment-2135130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 ok so now we have a floating LR. If I promise to roll a DS mishap die, can I take it as a dedicated transport. Vrox. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/#findComment-2135134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryzouken Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Are ya that strapped for HS slots? I mean, taking it as a HS slot means you can do exactly what you wanted: join WG to GH and have them start the game mounted. Beyond that, I hear 5 Wolf Guard Terminators with 2x hvy weapons in a Land Raider is good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/#findComment-2135170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
utilityzero Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 i don't know about the land raider being able to embark the GH at game start, but i do know that if it's taken as a dedicated transport it would have to stay as one. remember, splitting off wolf guard models to lead packs happens just before deployment, it's not part of your army selection, meaning that if you were playing in a tournie, you could split them off in one game, and leave them as a single squad in the next. any way, the LR is bought for the WG before you make the decision to split them up, so it can't suddenly be forced into a heavy slot can it? i would like to think that it could in fact be used by one the squads with a WG pack leader, but i'm sort of expecting to see a faq that says if a WG squad splits up before deployment, you lose the transport for that game, and while they're at it they might give your opponent points for destroying it while they're at it... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180204-new-wg-creating-a-fantastic-take-and-hold-gh-pack/#findComment-2136260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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