Njal and other RPs

[Haroof]

A quick reading of the Wolf codex yesterday at our shop's veteran evening revealed something I thought was a bit odd, and I wanted to check with people who've had a better look than I have.

 

It states that you can't have two characters with either the same saga, wargear combination or psychic powers.

 

My friend pointed out that since Njal has all the psychic powers, you can't take another Rune Priest, since that would lead to psychic power repetitions in the army. I'm a bit skeptical about thsi, but I could believe this.

 

What say you, brothers?

[Chodjinn]

it'd combinations of wargear, there's been like a hundred threads on this already, search for it. Basically you can't have two RPs with the same two psychic powers. You can't have two WLs with the exact same wargear, etc.

 

And Njal is a special character, so it doesn't matter.

[Haroof]

And Njal is a special character, so it doesn't matter.

 

The rest of it, I understand fine, it's just the point about Njal I needed clarifying, due to the wording the codex used.

[DGC]

my understanding goes something like this as there is something similar in the old Ork codex

where no two Mekboyz could have the same combination of weapons. So this basically meant one Mekboy could take big shoota and slugga while another could take big shoota and choppa and a third could take slugga and choppa.

 

With this in mind I would take it that one RP could take P/W + P/P + Saga 1 and Saga 2. Another could take P/W + P/P and Saga 1 and Saga 3 or P/W + B/P + Saga 1 + Saga 2. Each of these RPs is in effect kitted out with different wargear and therefore is different

 

( options noted are a stab in the dark as I don't have the new dex yet but I think the mechanics still work)

 

DGC

[Toasterfree]

well you can only take one saga per HQ, and the rule states

To represent this, no two characters bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargear combinations

 

notice that is says SAME powers. does not mention anything about combinations of power. so you cannot have two RP with living lighting. you can have one with living lightning and one with murderous hurricane, and two other random powers as long as they do not have the same one.

 

as far as the SC thing and having the same sagas, i am avoiding it because of the rule, but I would also argue that a SC would be over that rule because they are special.

[DV8]

it'd combinations of wargear, there's been like a hundred threads on this already, search for it. Basically you can't have two RPs with the same two psychic powers. You can't have two WLs with the exact same wargear, etc.

 

No, as stated above (and again below), It's not only wargear, but sagas and psychic powers as well.

 

And Njal is a special character, so it doesn't matter.

 

On this you're wrong. I don't know if it says that Special Characters are excluded from such restrictions in the rulebook, but there is nothing in the Codex that exempts Special Characters from being counted against this:

 

The Leaders of the Pack: To represent this, no two characters may bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargear combination. ...

 

well you can only take one saga per HQ, and the rule states

To represent this, no two characters bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargear combinations

 

notice that is says SAME powers. does not mention anything about combinations of power. so you cannot have two RP with living lighting. you can have one with living lightning and one with murderous hurricane, and two other random powers as long as they do not have the same one.

 

as far as the SC thing and having the same sagas, i am avoiding it because of the rule, but I would also argue that a SC would be over that rule because they are special.

 

Think of it as a list of criteria:

 

• Cannot bear the same saga
  
• Cannot have the same combination of psychic powers.
  
• Cannot have the same combination of wargear.
  

 

Sagas is a moot point...characters can only take a maximum of 1, so there is absolutely no issue here (and to me, taking Ragnar means no other character in your army can have Warrior Born. One critical thing to note too is that none of the Special characters bear the same Sagas (re: Logan Grimnar has Saga of Majesty, and the Eternal Warrior special rule, while Arjac Rockfist has Saga of the Bear, which grants Eternal Warrior). Which ties into my point above, I don't think Special Characters are exempt from the rule that "Sagas cannot be duplicated".

 

Combination of Psychic Powers. I think as long as both powers arent' the same, 1 is allowed to be duplicated (i.e. you can have 4 Rune Priests, all with JotWW, and 1 other varying psychic power that doesn't match with any of the others). By your logic, Toasterfree, no two characters may have both Frag and Krak grenades (which rules out pretty much every character except Arjac and Logan), and taking Njal means that no other Rune Priests can be included in the army.

 

Same principle as Wargear. Individual items can be duplicated, so long as the combination of wargear as a whole is not identical.

 

 

DV8

[eyeslikethunder]

well you can only take one saga per HQ, and the rule states

To represent this, no two characters bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargear combinations

 

notice that is says SAME powers. does not mention anything about combinations of power. so you cannot have two RP with living lighting. you can have one with living lightning and one with murderous hurricane, and two other random powers as long as they do not have the same one.

 

as far as the SC thing and having the same sagas, i am avoiding it because of the rule, but I would also argue that a SC would be over that rule because they are special.

 

Its saga (singular) and powers (pural) so you cannot take the same saga twice but with psychic powers it the one that must be differnet

i did ask at gamesday

[DapperDave]

By your logic, Toasterfree, no two characters may have both Frag and Krak grenades (which rules out pretty much every character except Arjac and Logan), and taking Njal means that no other Rune Priests can be included in the army.

 

Same principle as Wargear. Individual items can be duplicated, so long as the combination of wargear as a whole is not identical.

 

DV8

 

That is by far the best point I have heard on this matter.

[DGC]

I think the key word in this is 'combinations'. In my basic understanding of how the English language works (I'm not the brightest spark ;) ), the fact that the word 'combinations' comes after the items would infer that no two identical combinations of the previously listed items may be chosen by the same type of character. By that I would take it as you can't have two characters with identical combinations of wargear, sagas and psychic powers.

 

In the example I gave earlier for the Orks, as long as one piece of equipement was different they were classed as being 'individual' characters, trained or skilled in the use of certain things and not others. (and that was F.A.Qd)

 

As has already been mentioned, if you took Njal you couldn't effectively take any other rune priest as they wouldn't be able to take any power as Njal has all of them.

Again, previously mentioned, if one character took a bike or frags then no other character could as it would be duplicated else where

 

Unless you were planning on taking four Rune Priests then I don't really see a problem, and although that might be very powerful (and costly) would four Rune Priests really take to the field together - surely their skills would be better used on many fronts not just one

 

Only my opinion

 

DGC

 

Reason for edit: gramatical error - I hope there aren't any more

[Toasterfree]

i dont duplicate sagas at all, i have warrior on ragnar and bear on my lord, if i was ever to take arjac id have to change my lord (to what idk).

 

and english being such a complicated language (yes even with me being native english language) the powers refers to the fact that there are multiple, and since you are have to allocate two to your RP, even if you didnt repeat a power you have plenty to choose from.

 

that being said, i would have no problems using MH on two different units to keep assaults from happening. from two diff RPs

[Toasterfree]

Sagas is a moot point...characters can only take a maximum of 1, so there is absolutely no issue here (and to me, taking Ragnar means no other character in your army can have Warrior Born. One critical thing to note too is that none of the Special characters bear the same Sagas (re: Logan Grimnar has Saga of Majesty, and the Eternal Warrior special rule, while Arjac Rockfist has Saga of the Bear, which grants Eternal Warrior). Which ties into my point above, I don't think Special Characters are exempt from the rule that "Sagas cannot be duplicated".

DV8

 

The exception to this rule is special characters, who have their own stories and abilities above and beyond the sagas

p.64 space wolves codex

[Chodjinn]

it'd combinations of wargear, there's been like a hundred threads on this already, search for it. Basically you can't have two RPs with the same two psychic powers. You can't have two WLs with the exact same wargear, etc.

 

No, as stated above (and again below), It's not only wargear, but sagas and psychic powers as well.

 

And Njal is a special character, so it doesn't matter.

 

On this you're wrong. I don't know if it says that Special Characters are excluded from such restrictions in the rulebook, but there is nothing in the Codex that exempts Special Characters from being counted against this:

DV8

 

Obviously you didn't read the "etc" at the end of my sentance then? I wasn't going to sit and regurgitate stuff that's been mentioned on other threads. This is sorted as far as I'm concerened, and was before this thread was started.

 

 

And on the special characters, you can't exactly say I'm wrong if you don't know yourself?! ;)

[DV8]

Obviously you didn't read the "etc" at the end of my sentance then? I wasn't going to sit and regurgitate stuff that's been mentioned on other threads. This is sorted as far as I'm concerened, and was before this thread was started.

 

And on the special characters, you can't exactly say I'm wrong if you don't know yourself?! ;)

 

@Toasterfree + Chodjinn - Fair enough, I missed that line in regards to Special Characters + Sagas. Apologies.

 

@Chodjinn - No, I did read the etc., but I felt it necessary to clarify because you started your post with this, and only this:

 

it'd combinations of wargear, there's been like a hundred threads on this already...

 

 

DV8

[Toasterfree]

wow, talking about a flaming troll....

 

HUMAN HERE we all make mistakes. no one in the emperor here so no need to be snide.

[lunchb0x]

We need a Sticky for the new Dex explaining things such as this...hell even I the AWESOME one had a pretty obvious thread about a question such as this.

[Valerian]

I think the key word in this is 'combinations'. In my basic understanding of how the English language works (I'm not the brightest spark :) ), the fact that the word 'combinations' comes after the items would infer that no two identical combinations of the previously listed items may be chosen by the same type of character. By that I would take it as you can't have two characters with identical combinations of wargear, sagas and psychic powers.

 

DGC

 

DGC,

 

Just for your consideration:

 

First, as has been established already, the restriction does not apply to any of the Special Characters.

 

Second, regarding the point about the word "combinations" that you keep bringing up, I would just like to point out to you that the rule only uses the word "combination" with the wargear. Specifically, no two characters can have the same "combination of wargear", so you are correct on that. However, the word is not used with the psychic powers portion of the phrase, so your post above listing the three criteria is misleading. Instead the restriction should read that "no two characters may have the same psychic powers".

 

This, more correct criterion, is much more ambiguous, and is one of the few issues in the new codex that actually is. The general consensus so far is to also treat the psychic powers as a "set", like the wargear, in that as long as one power is different then you are okay. However, it is equally correct to interpret the phrase as requiring every power to be wholly unique.

 

Regards,

 

Valerian

[Toasterfree]

I think the key word in this is 'combinations'. In my basic understanding of how the English language works (I'm not the brightest spark :) ), the fact that the word 'combinations' comes after the items would infer that no two identical combinations of the previously listed items may be chosen by the same type of character. By that I would take it as you can't have two characters with identical combinations of wargear, sagas and psychic powers.

 

DGC

 

DGC,

 

Just for your consideration:

 

First, as has been established already, the restriction does not apply to any of the Special Characters.

 

Second, regarding the point about the word "combinations" that you keep bringing up, I would just like to point out to you that the rule only uses the word "combination" with the wargear. Specifically, no two characters can have the same "combination of wargear", so you are correct on that. However, the word is not used with the psychic powers portion of the phrase, so your post above listing the three criteria is misleading. Instead the restriction should read that "no two characters may have the same psychic powers".

 

This, more correct criterion, is much more ambiguous, and is one of the few issues in the new codex that actually is. The general consensus so far is to also treat the psychic powers as a "set", like the wargear, in that as long as one power is different then you are okay. However, it is equally correct to interpret the phrase as requiring every power to be wholly unique.

 

Regards,

 

Valerian

by he wording of the rule (in english) saying that its combination of wargear, that stipulation only applies there, as it is implicit about that. if powers were included it would have been written as "combination of wargear and psychic powers" or something similar to that.

[Rokafort Stonewolf]

In English, this means you cannot have the same set of powers. In whatever language you want to argue with your opponent, I have the right to punch you in the face.

 

Seriously guys, this is a joke, right? Back to English class for the lot of you!

[Baluc]

In English, this means you cannot have the same set of powers. In whatever language you want to argue with your opponent, I have the right to punch you in the face.

 

Seriously guys, this is a joke, right? Back to English class for the lot of you!

 

I read it as you cannot duplicate powers, and until I've seen an F.A.Q stating otherwise I just can't grammatically see it meaning anything else.

 

If his intent was combination, then we need writers with a better level of education, as that is pretty unacceptable english to put in print. Net speak, spoken word is one thing. Once you've published it your an idiot for ever.