How to counter Tau?

[Vor]

So I played Tau yesterday for the first ever time. I was utterly owned. My list is normally a good list. It's not overpowered, though I do win with it more than I lose or draw for the most part. Never have I been beaten this badly before though.

 

In two games my Land Raider was destroyed on Turn 1, and whenever my Rhinos came into view they got devastated as well.

 

When my Terminators (2 out of 6 made it after footslogging the board due to their ride being crushed) got into CC they did well. As did my Ironclad (though in game 1 he was destroyed in turn 2).

 

What can I do to counter them? They're so good at shooting with their Markerlight abilities, and the Broadsides are just devastating. My friend only had 3 of them yesterday. He's planning on getting at least 6 next game.

 

I'm thinking perhaps Sternguard to come down in a Pod and take out the Broadsides is one option?

[Martellus]

+++Vor,

 

We could offer better and more informed advice if provided your army list list for review along with a brief tactica on who you normally employ it.

 

Martellus+++

[Kadaeux]

Sternguard in Pods is a good one. Ironclads in Dods are also a nightmare for Tau.

 

Landraiders = Railgunmagnet

[Cheese Elemental]

1) Always, ALWAYS pop smoke when you get in range. Cover saves are a staple of 5th edition.

2) Assault Marines! Deep Strike a squad with a Chaplain behind their gunline and eat them.

3) Don't rely on Land Raiders for transport, as they're just big boxes with 'Railguns go here' stamped on them. Use teleporting Terminators and Drop Pods. Drop some flamer-equipped Marines next to their Fire Warriors and watch them burn.

4) Take some Predator Destructors to wipe the floor with their 4+ save infantry, but be sure to target their Railguns with melta bombs/powerfists (for Hammerheads) or Assault Marines (for Broadsides).

[Kadaeux]

Oh, and LS Storms with Scouts (Shotguns) I hear are excellent.

[Martellus]

+++Deploying from reserves and outflanking are also effective techniques to mitigate the firepower of a Tau army. Protects your units from a turn of fire and allows you to react to his initial moves in an attempt to regain the initiative.

 

All of the above units are effective, but tend to go on "suicide" missions if not properly supported or attacking in coordination with another unit to achieve a destructive or fixing effect on the Tau force. If you can overwhelm or dislocate the Tau army by destroying or neutralizing their center of gravity--Cheese Elemental alludes to this in his earlier post--they tend to fall apart in short order once engaged through close combat or assaulting units.

 

Martellus+++

[DarkGuard]

The key is to close range with the Tau, they will not perform well up close and in combat, where you have the advantage.

 

Remember as well that Tau will outrange you, but it takes about 2 or 3 squads of Fire Warriors to take on one Tactical Squad due to mediochre shooting ability and a low AP while you have your good armour save.

 

A unit of 10 Devastators with heavy bolters understandably works wonders against a Tau army, and will scythe down any of their infantry units, Sternguard units with their kraken bolts and possibly heavy flamers will destroy Tau upclose, but they will need something like a Rhino or Drop Pod. Railguns are scary, so consider trying to get him to set up first allowing you to attempt to hide from those Railguns in your deployment. Smoke is essential to getting your Troops even half way across the board. A refused flank set up can prove effective as well.

 

Also remember that Broadsides go down easily to lascannons while Crisis suits go down easily to krak rockets, although if he is a good player he should be using shield generators on them.

 

Really the best advise is to get in close to the Tau, they tend to crumple when confronted with assault, but don't be over confident, for some reason the Tau around my area are some of the best fighters in the game...

[Gore Fang]

One word "Cover." You can take LR's, just make sure that you plow through every little bit of cover that you can, in order to get that +4 save. I was at a tourney the other day and a Tau player brought 9 Broadsides to the table. 9! My buddies 4 Rhinos survived the entire game by plowing through cover and some lucky rolls. He DS'ed a TAS with SS/TH and charged the next turn, tying up the Tau players Shas'o, 2 man body guard, and a 3 man Broadside unit, destroying them all. It was really quite embarrassing for the poor tau player. I think it nearly made him cry :P Cover is golden in this game. USE IT! ! ! :P

[greatcrusade08]

the best way to counter a shooty army is with a CC based list (rock scissors paper). alot of scout units can really help against tau as they can get in close very quickly or outflank if you dont get first turn.

Scout bikes and LSS teams are golden, heavy flamers in particular are amazing against thier piddly 4+ saves.

 

CC scouts can also outflank and have the numbers of attacks to take down even kroot.

 

Failing that fill up on your fast attack, massed speeders with heavy flamers and/or MM's can take down most tau units quite early on.

 

Gc08

[thade]

We really need to see your list to give you accurate advice. <_< But I'll pitch in how I eat Tau.

 

1. Smoke. And lots of transports that use Smoke.

2. Something at least as scary to my opponent as my LR...which is a Vindicator (though I wouldn't mind two).

3. A veteran melee squad in my LR. Second game I ever won was because my LR dropped my vanguard off within assault range then raced off to pick up the slack that my dead Rhinos had dropped. (The LR had been stripped of all it's weapons and Shaken the entire time.) They ate his HQ squad, then weathered a ton of fire...down from 8 men to three...which was a relic blade, a shield, and a Master of the Forge. Those three marines assault then broke three fire warrior squads in two turns (which I still get starry-eyed about)...helps to be handy with assaults and, in particular, being handy with the rules for assaulting multiple units at once. My MotF took an entire squad of Fire Warriors himself. Tau really are terrible in CC; it's so simple to scare them off the table using an assault. I'm confident melee scouts could do it if they could get close enough (i.e. Storm from Outflank).

4. Snipers with Telion are very handy at picking off annoying Broadsides (which will be focusing on your tanks).

5. Combat squads with missile launchers, which spend their entire game also shooting at Broadsides.

6. Maneuvering assault squads to range using cover and structures that break LOS.

7. Did I mention Smoke Launchers?

8. One issue with drop-podding your Ironclad in is that he's going to sit there for a turn and get HAMMERED on by railguns, which he won't survive. If you're going to DP him in, DP in a buddy with him (say another Dread/Ironclad/Venerable) or terminators or possibly a Librarian hopping Sternguard.

 

That's all that comes to mind. Post that list and a battle report or two.

 

EDIT: Wow, I had left a lot of typos in this post.

[Vor]

Thanks for the tips so far guys. This is my current list:

 

HQ:

 

Vulkan 190 (attached to Terminator squad)

 

Troops:

 

1x 10 man tactical squad - Flamer, Multi-melta, powerfist 195 (mounted in Rhino 1)

 

1x 10 man tactical squad - Flamer, Heavy bolter, powerfist 195 (mounted in Rhino 2)

 

1x 10 man tactical squad - Flamer, Plasma Cannon, powerfist, 200

 

Elite:

 

1x Terminator Squad – 1x extra Terminator, 3x Thunderhammers, 3x Lighting Claws 240 (mounted in Land Raider)

 

1x Ironclad Dreadnought - heavy flamer (instead of Storm), Assault Launchers 145

 

Heavy Support:

 

Land Raider - Multi-melta 260

 

Dedicated Transport:

 

Rhino 1

 

Rhino 2

 

70

 

Total: 1495 points

 

I drop one of the Terminators with a TH/SS when I need to give the Ironclad a Drop Pod.

[Captain Idaho]

If you want the Landraider to avoid 1st turn destruction against Tau Railguns, maybe consider putting them into reserve 1st turn, unless you can place a Rhino in front and give it a cover save.3 Even at S10 they need a 5+ to penetrate, and you get a 4+ save then.

 

Really don't know why you need Assault Launchers on the Iron Clad though. Sounds nice, but you will never come across an opponent that suffers from it, as units that can kill in it CC will do so without the help of the extra attack from charging, while you will rarely, if ever, be bothered about striking last against opponents in cover with an Iron Clad.

 

Do some juggling of points; dropping the Assault Launchers and the power fist in the foot-sloggin infantry (who won't likely be in CC against Tau but taking objectives) saves points for a Drop Pod.

 

In 5th edition, using your list, I would reckommend using your Landraider and Terminators, supported by the Iron Clad and a Rhino borne Tactical squad, to advance as quickly as possible to the Tau, killing their Battlesuits and vehicles as a priority. This means they have just Firewarriors and maybe Kroot to claim objectives, which they will find difficult to do when you have a full Tactical squad hiding in a Rhino and a combat squadding 10 men with your assault force between them and the Tau.

 

By the way, you will have to drop a Terminator if you want Vulkan to fit in that Landraider with them. If you stick to the changes I stated above you can buy a transport with the spare 40pts and have 2 transport protected squads hiding on objectives.

 

Kill points, rush them all up quickly!

[Frosty the Pyro]

Outflanking bikes will fill them with pain, Or you can add shrike to the list, put him with some terminators (infiltrating, fleet, assult terminators, yes please). Vanguard might even be nice in this situation, as heroic intervention means not giving them a chance to get shot at. Anothering to think of is hidden whirlwinds. I dont think tau have any barrage weapons, so if you can park it out of LoS and rain down some pie plates, that could be good.

 

In general its good to be fast, and beaty against tau. Though you may need to start doing genestealer math. Genestealer math is calculating your squad sizes so as to not whipe out the enemy unit on the charge, thus keeping yourself locked in close combat during their turn and whiping them on that turn so you are free to charge again.

[chapter master 454]

One would wonder why land raiders are a taus favourite target. To put it mildly your basicly getting a brightlance up your raiders exhausts and while it's nice to field AV14 all round, unless supported right or held back for a turn you may as well paint the RAF symbol on it for tau.

 

Alot of people think tau are the masters of range, and while they can dominate range game we can un-do this quickly. Tau have a staple weapon: railguns and their pulse rifles (carbines, whatever they're called!). The pulse rifles give them advantage over our bolters and do have some sting but remember with only 50% hitting (hate to drag that factor in but trust me, BS3 is quite a kneecapper for a ranged army). Railguns on broadsides aren't a big deal, just level a lascannon or two their way (or something AP2) and thats all she wrote on those guys. Hammerheads however are rightly feared tanks, I was nearly a victim of one in 4th edition when I was my necrons so thank the dice gods for lucky scatter and how the guass rule mattered back then! That thing can churn out ether pie plates or eat your raider so watch out and my money would be on them having some form of the shieldy thing (something that makes it harder to hit at over 12") and decoy launchers could be a pain.

 

I would recommend something to get our bolter blitz going, drop pods are a good choice. Several drop pod units, some tactical terminators and if your taking flamers McVulkans can help. Tau do range yes, but when we get to our bolter blitz range thats when things get ugly. Also if your playing objectives, try combat squads with your drop podding tacticals since then if any survive they can only kill half your tactical squads at anyone salvo of fire from one squad. I'm not saying our bolter blitz isn't as good but I'm saying getting about 5 rapid firing pulse rifles does tend to leave some scars!

[Koremu]

The trouble with talking about the Tau having BS is that they do not stay at BS3... Markerlight Spam can make the important bits BS5 and ignoring cover.

[SpecialIssue]

I also just played a game vs. Tau for the 1st time, and they chewed me up as well- firewarriors with BS5 and ignoring cover or reducing leadership can really pulse your power armour till it boils (lotsa lucky rolls on his markerlights meant my Assault marines in cover got wiped, while another tactical ran cause they had so many little red dots shining on their foreheads). Watch out for Pathfinders with markerlights.

 

Hammerheads with S6 large blasts and getting a 4+ cover save everytime you shoot at them while more than 12" away are also a bitch to kill. Sternies with combi-meltas need to DP in as soon as possible to slag it to death. I actually find Hammerheads more than anything to be the lynchpin of a Tau force- quite a lot of killy ability is in this unit alone- take it out, and the Tau I've faced often fall apart without this premier AT unit.

 

course, never faced broadsides before...

[thade]

course, never faced broadsides before...

 

Broadsides are cool, very annoying, and not too hard to take down. My opponent fielded three and I took them down with a model I adoringly call "Missile Launcher Guy" and my sniper scouts. They can really dish it out, but they can't take it.

[Grey Mage]

Thanks for the tips so far guys. This is my current list:

 

HQ:

 

Vulkan 190 (attached to Terminator squad)

 

Troops:

 

1x 10 man tactical squad - Flamer, Multi-melta, powerfist 195 (mounted in Rhino 1)

 

1x 10 man tactical squad - Flamer, Heavy bolter, powerfist 195 (mounted in Rhino 2)

 

1x 10 man tactical squad - Flamer, Plasma Cannon, powerfist, 200

 

Elite:

 

1x Terminator Squad – 1x extra Terminator, 3x Thunderhammers, 3x Lighting Claws 240 (mounted in Land Raider)

 

1x Ironclad Dreadnought - heavy flamer (instead of Storm), Assault Launchers 145

 

Heavy Support:

 

Land Raider - Multi-melta 260

 

Dedicated Transport:

 

Rhino 1

 

Rhino 2

 

70

 

Total: 1495 points

 

I drop one of the Terminators with a TH/SS when I need to give the Ironclad a Drop Pod.

You realise you cant leglly attach vulkan to a six man TDA squad in a 12 capacity standard landraider right?

[Commander Proteus]

As Grey Mage mentioned, that had better be another variant of LR.

 

Actually, I think I see a chunk of your problem: no long range.

 

Your terminators are the assault variety, meaning if they don't DS, and their LR gets trashed, they're dead meat. Your dread is made for CC as well, and I see no drop pod, so that thing has three turns of walking to survive before it earns points.

 

Otherwise, it looks like your only firepower comes from your tactical squads, which aren't a match in a gunfight against Tau! They out range you by 6", and if you're relying on your heavy weapons, you keep yourself out of assault range.

 

Now, this thing has a VERY good Promethean cult theme for the Sallies, and I'm not disputing that, but against Tau, with this list, your marines will be like swiss cheese with blood coming out of the holes. Anything that walks will be shot to pieces, and anything in a transport is going to be railgunned. This list actually has a very small number of targets. I think there's a total of six "units" when you use the transports.

 

I would reccomend a few changes of a drastic nature.

 

1. Take regular Terminators. Assault Cannons or Heavy Flamers are death on Tau. Otherwise, just use the landraider to transport the third tactical squad with Vulkan, and DS the terminators. Saves a lot of time, instead of another unit in a coffin....er...transport.

 

2. Consider a regular dreadnought. A MM or T-L Lascannon will serve you well, and you don't have to give up CC ability, with a DCCW. You might even want a drop pod.

 

3. As mentioned by others, Sternguard. :P

 

Tactically speaking, concentrate on a few units at a time, and you can take a Tau army apart. Go for Broadsides, Crisis, and then Ethereals, FW squads, and other targets of opportunity. The only thing I would say you would want to rush CC on is Stealthsuits, because shooting can be a waste of time.

 

good luck!

 

-Proteus

[Grey Mage]

My personal favorite VS tau: 2x Whirlwinds. Wounds on a 2+ ignoring armor, can fire from outside LOS and costs a mere 85pts. Oh, and its pinning.

 

Not bad, even against meqs.

[Vor]

I thought it was 8 Terminators in a Raider. Sorry! Majority of the time though I do only play 5 and a Drop Pod for the Iron Clad instead of the 6th. The only time I've actually gone with 6 has been in the first game against the Tau. Woops.

 

Going to work on an updated list tomorrow with the suggestions you've made. I'll post it up when it's done.

[DarkGuard]

I thought it was 8 Terminators in a Raider. Sorry! Majority of the time though I do only play 5 and a Drop Pod for the Iron Clad instead of the 6th. The only time I've actually gone with 6 has been in the first game against the Tau. Woops.

 

Going to work on an updated list tomorrow with the suggestions you've made. I'll post it up when it's done.

 

It's 8 Terminators in a Land Raider Crusader, regular Land Raiders and the Redeemer both have a 12 man capacity. I agree with Commander Proteus, you only present a few amount of targets to the Tau, and you will get railgunned, especially if the guy is clever and takes hard-wired target locks on his Broadsides (I'm pretty sure you can do this).

 

If you can't get too many changes into the composition of the list try and deploy out of sight of his Railguns, or flank attack him (no, not Outflank), refused flank deployment if you want.

 

Commander Proteus is correct in that there is a strong Promethean cult theme in this list, and I wouldn't want to offer too many changes to unbalance and change this. However, I would consider changing your Terminators so they all have the TH/SS configuration. Much more survivable, more likely to do damage and they have master-crafted Thunder Hammers because Vulkan is around.

 

Plus Grey Mage is spot on about Whirlwinds against Tau, I'd also say that Thunderfires can be entertaining.

[Grey Mage]

Each Broadside is allowed, nay, required to take an upgrade from C:TAUs battlesuit armory, wich indeed can include a multitracker.

[Romulas]

the best way i have had success against my buddies mech tau is the patented rhino rush.

 

as stated above, get i his face hard and fast. rhino rush, drop-pod or deep strike (your troops and terminators) and hit the heavies or troops hard as targets present. the more rapid fire you can pour into his troops the more likly they will run. your heavy choices should concentrate on the broadsides, battle suits, and hover tanks on a prioty basis as situation presents.

 

if he starts shooting at your landrader, great its less he can shoot at other stuff, have other distractions in your list. drednoughts & freem preds and the like.

 

usung the above tactics i usually can pull off a tie to a major victory <_<, my buddy taught me the tactics and i'm learning, too well to his disapointment. he throws other tricks from time to time but i can usually deal with them.

 

most importantly is to keep playing against them and learn what works and what does not.

[avatar8481]

Taking only one raider is, as you've learned, not going to work, because he can get the 3-4 railguns he took at 1500 points all on it the first turn, or you hold it back, or you try to give it cover. But he'll also, if he's doing it right, have pathfinders and will markerlight you until you get no cover save, so, while the advice to hide behind rhinos or pop smoke are normally good, Tau can (and likely will) still own your raider right away.

 

You need to have 2 to give them a chance at all, or more to the point, at 1500, have none, and either DS the Termies or revise your strategy. Even one TH/SS terminator will make Tau sad-face, so I'd almost try a list with 2 term squads, one max size squadded and one at 5 man so you have 3 deep-striking threats.

 

You should be taking LRCrusader over GHLR anyway, (if you stick with it, since the raider is trying to get close, where bolter and MM will own face and Lascannons won't care as much).

 

You need to Pod the Ironclad or take it out, having it walk is for sure going to get it killed (not that it won't get killed if it walks, but at least it'll kill something first)