13th company grey slayers vs grey hunters

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

ok everyone here remembers how much grey hunters with bolters used to be right????

they were 18 pts each!

coincidently that is the same price as a wolf guard with a boltgun only in comparison they have 3 attacks on the charge and both grenades when compared to the old grey hunters, so my question is now that logan lets us use wolfguard as troops, why not use them instead of grey hunters? and also do they not fit the fluff of 13th company better when used as grey slayers?

 

for example, my old stock standard unit used to cost 204 and had 10 gh with a meltagun and power fist and they ussually drove around in a rhino at 50 pts so 254 all up.

 

and the new gh are best in the 238 format where you have meltgun, banner, motw, 9 gh and a wolfguard with fist and combi melta in a rhino.

 

but we can also now field 10 wolfguard with bolters and throw in as many 5 pt melta gun shots as we like and as many power type weapons as we want as well.

 

so for close to 254pts i can now get 10 wolfguard, 4 combi melta, a power fist and a rhino transport which comes in at 1pt over at 255

but this alows the old tactic of drive up pop a tank and assault something to be more effective as with 4 combi melts yo can roll em 1 at a time, and if your getting more then 4 turns of melta shots then your playing wolves wrong.

 

also as for storm claws vs bloodclaws we used to be able to do 15 bloodclaws with 2 powerweapons and a fist at 238pts

now we can do 10 wolfguard with bolt pistol and ccw with 2pw and 1 fist at 220,throw in motw thats 235, i could even change the fist to a thunder hammer or a power weapon to a wolf claw and it wold come in at 240

 

and if we compare the 2 over 2 turns of combat, against a standard stat of a marine as an enemy we get the following

12x4 (48) attacks on the charge at ws 3 = 24 hits, 12 wounds and 4 dead

2x4 (8) pw attacks on the charge at ws 3 = 4 hits and 2 wounds and 2 dead

1x3 (3) pf attacks on the charge at ws 3 = 1.5 hits and 1.25 wounds 1.25 dead

for a total of 7.25 dead marines on the first turn

on the second turn

12x2 (24) attacks at ws 3 = 12 hits, 6 wounds and 2 dead

2x2 (4) pw attacks at ws 3 = 2 hits and 1 wounds and 1 dead

1x1 (1) pf attacks at ws 3 = .5 hits and .42 wounds .42

3.42 dead

so over 2 turns of combat bloodclaws kill on average 10.67 marines.

 

compared to the wolfguard of the same price (will use the same 3 weapon combo)

7x4 (28) attacks on the charge at ws 4 = 14 hits, 7 wounds and 2.3 dead

2x4 (8) pw attacks on the charge at ws 4 = 4 hits and 2 wounds and 2 dead

1x3 (3) pf attacks on the charge at ws 4 = 1.5 hits and 1.25 wounds 1.25 dead

for a total of 5.55 dead marines on the first turn

on the second turn

7x3 (21) attacks at ws 4 = 10.5 hits, 5.25 wounds and 1.75 dead

2x3 (6) pw attacks at ws 4 = 3 hits and 1.5 wounds and 1.5 dead

1x2 (2) pf attacks at ws 4 = 1 hits and .84 wounds .84

4.09 dead

so 9.64

 

however with ws 4 the wolfguard will survive longer, and if you have 1 wc to make ponts even that would add up to an extra kill over 2 turns easy and make it even. and the longer the fight goes the more damage the wolfguard do.

 

so my point is when modernising our old lists, why not take logan and run the wolfguard like troops without decking them out in tda and special weapons, why not use them as elite extra attack standard troops.

 

i was looking at my old 1850 tournament list with it's 3 characters... a 130 pt wolf lord, a 95 pt wolf priest and a 170 point ven dread.

by swapping them out for logan and upgrading my old list with all wolf guard suddenly my army is a lot scarier.

 

what do others think, and has anyone thought of how to best field 10 wolfgard in power armour?

[utilityzero]

i personally think the WG are best leading packs of GH and BC. i like the charge bonus for the blood claws and sky claws, and while the WG do have base 2 attacks, they can't take a bolter and bp like the GH. the GH have a bit more versatility in my opinion. a WG with bolter is going to have the same number of attacks as the GH and the GH is 3 points cheaper. but, take the WG with the PF and his extra base attack makes a difference now, and he's also going to come in at 38 points, 2 points cheaper. not much, but if you lead a few of your packs with WG carrying PF or PW instead of just buying them for GH or BC you are going to save a few points here and there and 10 points is always welcome. if nothing else it's a wolf to tack on to one of your characters for the extra wound.

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

what do you mean by bolter and bolt pistol combination? how does that benefit, you can still only fire 1 gun and a bolt pistol doesn't give an extra cc attack unless combined with a ccw.

and wolf guard can have a bolter and bolt pistol if you read :)

[utilityzero]

GH have CCW, BP and Bolter standard, so they do get the bonus attack, and no, WG can't match that. they start with a BP and CCW and have to replace one to get their bolter, or any other special weapon for that matter.

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

so your saying i can use them as bolter only in the shooting faze and then say they have bolt pistol and ccw in the assault phase.... interesting.... very interesting :)

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

so your saying i can use them as bolter only in the shooting faze and then say they have bolt pistol and ccw in the assault phase.... interesting.... very interesting :devil:

 

but it's still better then blood claws

 

ooh imagine logan and ragnar with a 10 man wolfguard unit with 3+d3 attacks on the charge at initiative 5 and strength 5 with the pw,pw,pf combo suddenly you have

 

35 attacks, 17.5 hits, 8.75 wounds, 5.83 dead

10 pw attacks, 5 hits, 2.5 wounds, 2.5 dead

4 pf attacks, 2 hits, 1.67 wounds, 1.67 dead

7 fb attacks, 4.67 hits, 3.9 wounds 3.9 dead

for a total of 13.93 dead marines on the charge.

 

or for the ultimate bad ass combination

 

logan and ragnar with 10 gh in tda with twin wc

50 str 5 i 5 attacks with rerolls to hit with favoured enemy and rerolls to wound with wolf claws 7 str 6 attacks and 7 str 9 attacks

droooooooooooooooooooooollllllllllllllllllll :woot:

all for only 995pts take it in a 1500 pt game with a grey hunter as the second troops a dp dread and a long fangs with lc for the tanks and bye bye

[Grey Mage]

You sir, are a bit crazy. Maybe you should be a 13nth co player.

 

Seriously though, Grey Slayers had 3 attacks all the time- only WG can do that at the moment, but if so they lose out on all the shooting that Slayers could do.

 

To quote Deptcharge:

 

"Spacewolves are badasses who operate barely inside the rules. The 13nth company didnt even know there were rules saying how badass they could be."

[Hellios]

Its funny you mention the 13th company not knowing the rules as my 13th company plans to use WG as troops (for slayers and stormclaws) without taking logan ^^

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

lol

 

heres a scary 13th company for you....

 

HQ

Wolf Lord (logan)

 

Elite

Lone Wolf with the Mark of the wulfen

Lone Wolf with the Mark of the wulfen

Lone Wolf with the Mark of the wulfen

 

Troops

10 grey slayers (wolf guard with bolter+ccw) with mark of the wulfen, a power fist, and 10 various combi weapons.

10 grey slayers (wolf guard with bolter+ccw) with mark of the wulfen, a power fist, and 10 various combi weapons.

10 storm claws (wolf guard with bolt pistol+ccw) with mark of the wulfen , a power fist and a power weapon.

10 storm claws (wolf guard with bolt pistol+ccw) with mark of the wulfen , a power fist and a power weapon.

 

Heavy

6 long fangs with 5 missile launchers

 

thats a 50 man 13th company in 1500 points

 

and if you want more numbers drop the combi weapons in the grey slayer squads from 10 each to 2 each and add a fast attack choice of 10 fenrissian wolves (or 9 with a cyber wolf)

 

 

giving you a possible 60 man army in 1500 points, with no vehicles, which means yor opponent will have waisted points on anti tank stuff giving yo a mighty edge, especially since you have the option to make your fangs relentles and you have 3 decoy units that are scary as and you have 4 rock solid objective holders.

 

do you like it?

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

i'll copy and paste this to the list section so people can discuss it's tactics there :D

[Zemox]

lol

 

heres a scary 13th company for you....

 

HQ

Wolf Lord (logan)

 

Elite

Lone Wolf with the Mark of the wulfen

Lone Wolf with the Mark of the wulfen

Lone Wolf with the Mark of the wulfen

 

Troops

10 grey slayers (wolf guard with bolter+ccw) with mark of the wulfen, a power fist, and 10 various combi weapons.

10 grey slayers (wolf guard with bolter+ccw) with mark of the wulfen, a power fist, and 10 various combi weapons.

10 storm claws (wolf guard with bolt pistol+ccw) with mark of the wulfen , a power fist and a power weapon.

10 storm claws (wolf guard with bolt pistol+ccw) with mark of the wulfen , a power fist and a power weapon.

 

Heavy

6 long fangs with 5 missile launchers

 

thats a 50 man 13th company in 1500 points

 

and if you want more numbers drop the combi weapons in the grey slayer squads from 10 each to 2 each and add a fast attack choice of 10 fenrissian wolves (or 9 with a cyber wolf)

 

 

giving you a possible 60 man army in 1500 points, with no vehicles, which means yor opponent will have waisted points on anti tank stuff giving yo a mighty edge, especially since you have the option to make your fangs relentles and you have 3 decoy units that are scary as and you have 4 rock solid objective holders.

 

do you like it?

 

That list sir is badass,

Logan is badass

The lone wolf wulfen stand ins are badass

the sheer ammount of Wolfguards are badass

 

I suddenly gained allot of respect :D

 

I think someone just made me a list x) all footslogging and all.

[Haakon_Stormbrow]

why thank you, i have posted this list along with 3 variations in the space wolves list section, i hope they serve you well.