maligncomedy Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 We guys, I finally started the Tactica and it'll go through tons of revisions as I play test more. Feel free to comment, suggest or offer any creative criticism. Enjoy. :D [size=4; background-image:url(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/hq2.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat; background-position: 8px 2px; padding: 12px 8px 12px 8px; border: 1px solid #DDD; margin-left: 0 auto; text-align: left; color: #fff; text-indent:50px; font-size:130%; width:50%;">The Wolf Lord [/size] http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/hq2.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat; background-position: 8px 2px; padding: 12px 8px 12px 8px; border: 1px solid #DDD; margin-left: 0 auto; text-align: left; color: #fff; text-indent:50px; font-size:130%; width:50%;">Introduction Well guys, I'm gonna be blunt with this. I don't intend to type this as some serious approach. I'll share my words of wisdom, and I will be literate, and I'll even type what I intend to say or would say as if I were talking about this in real life (but thats because I am saying this out loud as I am typing it), but please understand this is my style of writing and as a Wolf I believe we must allow some independance or difference to keep true to our nature (that's me just making up crap to give myself an excuse to type informally). Call me what you want. Disapprove of my style if you wish. If you don't like it, you can go take arms with the smurfs. I seriously don't care. The point of this article is to display any relevant facts or possibly (I ain't guaranteeing anything) useful information pertaining to Wolf Lords and their use. And I shall do my best to provide that. I recommend you read this with a side of ale, of course. It always spices up a good read (if thats what you would consider this). And will generally probably make some of this seem more coherent, which probably says something about my train of thought. For those who are unfamiliar with me, I'm a fairly old player. I've been through many a codex, and have played a large multitude of styles. From competitive "Water" style GK to the Berserkers of Khrone, chances are I have battled against, allied with or played it. As of late, I have been running 3 vastly different armies. A DIY Bike army. Very much plasma oriented and definitely an "Air" style combatant. A DIY Steampunk army, featuring a "Count-as" Sicarius, and the Librarian/Power Armored GK combination to compliment my friend's IG as an allied Inquisition force. And the Wolves. 2 Branches actually. On one hand, a reserved, careful vetran company, dedicated to the eradication of "monsterous" creatures and their like. On the other, the full ferocity of a Bloodclaw based army. Now enough of the silly talk lets get down to buisness. Pros and Cons What can I say? We are amazing. The Wolf Lord statline is great. Especially for its price. It's special rules are a an effective bonus as well. It's easy to tune us up to a multi-tude of styles. And our options for movement are great, especially the Thunderwolf Mount. Our weapon options are wide. Hell, even our additional wargear (namely the Wolf Tail Talisman and Wolf Tooth Necklace) augment our potential greatly. We even have Sagas which pretty much make us special characters. It's great. It's like a converter's playground. Unfortunately there are a few downsides. One of which is the no "iron halo" included in cost. We actually have to buy our first invul save. It kinda sucks but it isn't the worst. What I consider the worst downside is our scaling of points. A small Wolf Lord equipped with Saga of the Bear, Thunder Hammer and Stormshield is pretty much 200 points. It isn't hard to go overboard on building your HQ either. You might just be thinking you will add a few benefits and then look back to notice your stacking on huge costs. But hey, atleast it can be worth it sometimes. Special Rules I'd like to start this at the beginning. Special rules, as you all know, we Wolves were graced with both Counter-attack and Acute Senses. Both of which are also extremely valuable in my eyes. What they allow for is versatility and adaptability. This will probably be a reoccuring theme within the tactica (well maybe not). And rightfully so. If you have it, why not use it? That being said, I expect many of us to disregard some of these rules entirely. Wargear This was a section I was dreading. So much to cover. Anywho, in my opinion Weapons isn't really much of a topic. In terms of Range you have your standard Storm Bolter/Combi-Weapon/Plasma Pistol set of options. In terms of close you have the standard once again - Wolf Claws/Power Weapon/Thunder Hammer/Frost weapon. Nothing new really, in a sense. The Wolf Claws are a little bit expensive in my mind so I can't validate using them, although they are worth mention for their ability to re-roll to hit or to wound. Frostblade, I would consider simply because it seems to be a Relic Blade that you can get extra attacks from (Assuming a pistol allows for 2 close combat weapons in this case, if not, it's useless, in my honest opinion). Interestingly enough, if you are in Termie armor you can have dual Chainfists now. This I must test out sometime. It makes me giggle like a young pup. Now for defences. Standard Termi armor is always available once again. Wow, what the hell was GW thinking with the Stormshield. The points jump is ridiculous. Needless to say though, Belt of Russ (as you all know, our "iron halo") is about the same price. Seriously hurting the Wolfie point wallet. Runic armor was a nice upgrade though. For a little extra you get a built in mini-Wolf Tail Talisman. Which brings me to the Wolf Tail Talisman. TAKE IT. It's bloody useful. Saved my arse a crapload already. Mainly versus Lash Princes. That being said, it also benefits any squad you join. Totally worth its points if it saves you atleast once. Miscellaneous, oh joy. Lots to talk about here. First off, I never use meltabombs. Just seems like a waste. Especially now that the points can go to the Tail Tally. As for jumppacks? Only reason to take those in my mind is to dodge Jaws of the World Wolf, or if your doing it for fluff reasons (eg. Lord was once a Skyclaw). Bike is a little better thanks to the built in guns/turbo-boost but the cake goes to the Thunderwolf Calvary. Although costly, it modifies your BASE statline (eg. T 5 instead of T 4(5)...). Thats ridonkulous. Plus its Calvary. Although, I absolutely hate the idea of them. Wolves riding wolves just strikes me as stupid. But hey, can't argue that it isn't good in someway. Fenrisian wolves are always nice. Meatshields are good. Same goes to the Wolftooth Necklace. It really helps against those Avatars or Autarchs but if you aren't gonna be fighting something like that I don't recommend taking it. On the other hand, Mark of the Wulfen is a bit of a disappointment. On average it lowers your number of attacks. That just isn't worth its points to me. Even if the attacks are rending. If I wanted rending I'd grab a damn beastly steed from now on thank you very much. Sagas. YAY (picture this in an anime fan-girl scream. Yes I scream like that, bite me). I love these. I love them, I love them, I love them, and my girlfriend is giving me weird stares because I am saying this out loud while I type. Anywho back on task. Beastslayer, Majesty, Wolfkin, Warrior-Born and Bear are your options. Now personally, I hate Wolfkin, it just seems useless. If I wanted to use it, I'd probably use Canis Wolfborn, since his Wolf King rule is much better. And even saying that gives me a feeling of disgust with myself. Although I haven't really playtested this one yet so after further experimentation I'll rate it fairly. Beastslayer, that I love. Although it's pretty useless if you have a Wolftooth Necklace (since you will be hitting around the same amount of times anyways). That being said in combination, "beasts" would take a massive number of attacks. Unfortunately, it doesn't give re-roll to wound as well. That would have made it ideal. Saga of the Majesty, is kinda cool. It's got it's uses, but to me the range is a little short. 12" would have been nicer. I wouldn't mind a higher price if it had that. Now as for Warrior-Kin. It's been great. Frostblades or Wolf Claws have racked me up massive numbers of kills. Especially against horde armies. So depending on the situation I'd say it's worth it's points. And finally Bear. If your Wolf Lord looks to be over 180-ish points, I'd reccomend just taking it. Seriously, when you are nearing the price of a squad or tank, you might as well make sure you aren't gonna get owned by a Lascannon or Force weapon. With my experience it has served it's purpose without fail. Random Builds and Effectiveness Well, heres a few builds and their effectiveness when I tried them. I'll post more up with continued playtesting and suggestions you guys may have to add to the list. Feel free to tell me any ideas you have that you haven't playtested, I'll be willing to or add ideas you have that I have not covered: Mounted Lord -Thunderwolf Mount -Frost Blade -Belt of Russ -Wolf Tail Talisman -Saga of the Bear @235 Overall, He's pretty rough. The Saga of the Bear seems essential at his points cost. A possible S6 with ~6-7 rending attacks is disgusting (if I am reading this correctly). Ideally, throw him in with a Squad of Thunderwolf Calvary built like this: 5 Thunderwolfs (1 Stormshield, 1 Plasma Pistol, 1 Stormshield + Meltabombs, 1 Stormshield + Powerweapon, 1 Stormshield + Mark of the Wulfen) for some wound allocation abuse. Plus it possibly protects them from the Lash of Submission thanks to the Wolf Tail Talisman. Essentially its a nob biker play. Wolf Claws -Wolf Claws -Belt of Russ -Wolf Tail Talisman -Saga of the Warrior-Born -Jump Pack @230 This guy seems to run okay. Wolf Claws allow for varying your attacks to deal with high toughness or low toughness, so in this case they help. Needles to say, he moves at a decent rate and literally shreds his way through hordes. Bit lacking in the defence area in my eyes though. Termi-Lord #1 -Terminator Armor -Storm Shield -Thunder Hammer -Saga of the Bear @215 This has been one of the most expensive Wolf Lords I have run. Needless to say, He was a huge damage sponge. Made tons of his saves and hit fairly hard too. The Saga of the Bear helped deal with the damn Railguns and saved me from Mephisto as well. Its still a bit too expensive in my mind. Termi-Lord #2 -Terminator Armor -Chainfist -Chainfist -Saga of the Bear -Belt of Russ @240 It's a bit ridiculous but this I just gotta try. Hopefully against a Calgar user (SCREW YOUR BOLTERS, A REAL MAN FIGHTS WITH A CHAINSAW-FIST.......actually, a real man fights with his manhood. Striking it forcefully against another man's until one of them succumbs to the pain, but thats just off topic and best left unsaid). Well actually, it would probably be okay or passable at Tank-Hunting. Maybe give him Wolftooth Necklace and have hit go after skimmers as well. But yeah, He'd just pop vehicles like crazy if he could catch up to them. Saga of the Bear is just there to keep him alive for some amount of time. Wolf Tamer -Belt of Russ -Wolf Tail Talisman -2 Fenrisian Wolfs -Saga of the Wolfkin -Storm Bolter -Wolf Claw @188 Essentially a cheap lord. Bolsters your Fenrisian wolves and seemingly has modelling potential. It might be nice to try an army based on using Fenrisian Wolves. I'll have to experiment with this one (by doing a Fenrisian Wolf Army playtest). I just called him "Wolf Tamer" because I couldn't think of a name. Wolf King was already taken (stupid Doggy Dogson) and he ain't exactly on a Thunderwolf Mount so he didn't really deserve that title. Adaptable -Storm Bolter -Belt of Russ -Wolf Tail Talisman -Frost Blade -Saga of the Majesty @173 Cheapest one I used and by far one of my faves. Storm Bolter adds some decent range while remaining an assault weapon. Frost Blade although not the strongest, is still decent in close range, and Counter-attack makes up for not getting the charge/having two close combat weapons sometimes. Wolf Tail Talisman saves his squad from nasty psychic powers and Saga of the Majesty bolsters them. Needless to say he can assume a wide variesty of roles on the battlefield. Sometimes I occaisionally re-equip him with a Combi-Melta or Combi-Flamer instead of the Storm Bolter. Just depends on the circumstances. Only really downside is that he ain't the most mobile thing there is but he generally joins squads with transports so it is okay. Conclusion E hh, Wolf Lords are kinda fun. Easy to create your own special character with in a sense (which I love for the fluffwise capabilities) and can generally fulfill a large number of roles. I would have liked to have seen a few more options (Saga of the Ironwolf, anyone?) but I ain't really gonna complain about it. I guess you could say I feel obligated to include one even though they aren't really my style (I seem to prefer Rune Priests with Tempest's Wrath/Storm Caller or Wolf Guard Battle Leaders with Saga of the Hunter). But they just seem too entertaining to pass up. In terms of recommending them? I'd say give them a try. Don't bank too many points on them, but they can be pretty fun. Just don't expect them to be the best thing out there for us. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180444-space-wolf-tactica-wolf-lords/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haakon_Stormbrow Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 where to start..... well first of all you do not need to give saga of the bear to the thunderwolf mounted lord as he is toughness 5 and there are not enough strength 10 units out their to require it. as for the wolf claws, i would field it as: wolf claws runic armour belt of russ runic charm saga of the warrior born total 230 pts ps your jump pack claw dud is 230 as well you added wrong. or for the cheaper version wolf claws terminator armour runic charm saga of the warrior born @205 and for your adaptable guy id take a combi weapon or a plasma pistol so you still get +1 attack at str 5. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180444-space-wolf-tactica-wolf-lords/#findComment-2136516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 re: no inv save. Think of it this way, when you buy a Storm Shield, you aren't also paying points for a redundant Iron Halo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180444-space-wolf-tactica-wolf-lords/#findComment-2136588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Dano Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 As a new player, I liked your write-up. I didn't understand half of it, but I'm looking forward to learning more and building my own characters/armies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180444-space-wolf-tactica-wolf-lords/#findComment-2137589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Why would you give Thunderwolf Cav Mark of the Wulfen? They already rend, and you're trading, like 5 base attacks (w/ pistol) for 1+D6. Do the math - at max, you're only gaining 2 attacks, and at worst you stand to lose three. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180444-space-wolf-tactica-wolf-lords/#findComment-2137598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligncomedy Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 where to start..... well first of all you do not need to give saga of the bear to the thunderwolf mounted lord as he is toughness 5 and there are not enough strength 10 units out their to require it. as for the wolf claws, i would field it as: wolf claws runic armour belt of russ runic charm saga of the warrior born total 230 pts ps your jump pack claw dud is 230 as well you added wrong. or for the cheaper version wolf claws terminator armour runic charm saga of the warrior born @205 and for your adaptable guy id take a combi weapon or a plasma pistol so you still get +1 attack at str 5. Yeah I was sure the Jump Pack was done wrong. Thanks for that. I'll edit the post later. Generally, I find Storm Bolters to be a trusty gun. Probably due to my days as a GK. Now that being said, Combi-weapons I use if the situation demands. Plasma pistol is right out. I don't usually recommend putting a weapon that can hurt you on an HQ. It seems to be a waste with my luck. Runic Armor is Redundant if you plan on taking a Wolf Tail Talisman or even Terminator Armor imo. Also, Saga of the Bear helps. In my gaming group there is a Thousand Sons player who runs alot of Sorcerors. Even if I go first there is still a chance that the Force Weapon will instant death me. In those situations I prefer to be prepared. Which would be why I included it. Then there is also guys who use Khan or Sicarius. Instant death special rules are so common these days in my area which is why I felt the need to be prepared. Why would you give Thunderwolf Cav Mark of the Wulfen? They already rend, and you're trading, like 5 base attacks (w/ pistol) for 1+D6. Do the math - at max, you're only gaining 2 attacks, and at worst you stand to lose three. Add another group for wound allocation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180444-space-wolf-tactica-wolf-lords/#findComment-2137610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I think you underrating saga of the wolfkin Initiative 5 for all you wolves in your army is big if you have wolf heavy army like some of the 13th company armies do this can be a massive advantage 45 I5 wolves(more with canis). Remember I5 is big step in the game it means you go first against most troops and level with the most the others and with a 24" charge its likely you will be the one charging. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180444-space-wolf-tactica-wolf-lords/#findComment-2137851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nemiel Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I think you underrating saga of the wolfkin Initiative 5 for all you wolves in your army is big if you have wolf heavy army like some of the 13th company armies do this can be a massive advantage 45 I5 wolves(more with canis). Remember I5 is big step in the game it means you go first against most troops and level with the most the others and with a 24" charge its likely you will be the one charging. 24" charge? I thought that cavalry moved 6" and charged 12" for a total of 18" in the turn they charge. Am I mistaken? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180444-space-wolf-tactica-wolf-lords/#findComment-2137857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligncomedy Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 I think you underrating saga of the wolfkin Initiative 5 for all you wolves in your army is big if you have wolf heavy army like some of the 13th company armies do this can be a massive advantage 45 I5 wolves(more with canis). Remember I5 is big step in the game it means you go first against most troops and level with the most the others and with a 24" charge its likely you will be the one charging. 24" charge? I thought that cavalry moved 6" and charged 12" for a total of 18" in the turn they charge. Am I mistaken? Move 6", Run d6", Charge 12". Its a possible 24". Also, @eyeslikethunder: I did cover that with this line. Although I haven't really playtested this one yet so after further experimentation I'll rate it fairly. It's gonna be an evolving tactica and I just haven't gotten the time to try Fenrisian wolves yet. In general, I try to focus on scoring units, and wolves lack that which has somewhat deterred them from me. So its not that I am under-estimating them per say, but more or less I value them less due to their lack of being a scoring unit. Once I playtest a nice 13th Company or Wolf-heavy list, I'll revise it. But thanks for the point of view. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180444-space-wolf-tactica-wolf-lords/#findComment-2137913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilhelm Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Fenrisian wolves don't have fleet of foot- so can't run and charge in the same turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180444-space-wolf-tactica-wolf-lords/#findComment-2138918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Fenrisian wolves don't have fleet of foot- so can't run and charge in the same turn. They sure do, page 54 BRB, under the heading assult, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180444-space-wolf-tactica-wolf-lords/#findComment-2138933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryzouken Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Cavalry. Also, your Twolf Lord you mentioned S7 rending attacks. Not possible. Thunderwolf mount and Mark both require you use no special weapons so the Frost Blade's +1S can't apply. Regardless, you're swinging a S7 Power Weapon. Shouldn't need the rending. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180444-space-wolf-tactica-wolf-lords/#findComment-2138934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Ideally, throw him in with a Squad of Thunderwolf Calvary built like this: 5 Thunderwolfs (1 Stormshield, 1 Plasma Pistol, 1 Stormshield + Meltabombs, 1 Stormshield + Powerweapon, 1 Stormshield + Mark of the Wulfen) Would be nice, but only 1 TWM in a squad may have power weapon wargear. Also how are you getting a S7 model. base is 4 +1 for FB and +1 for TWM. = 6 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180444-space-wolf-tactica-wolf-lords/#findComment-2138942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligncomedy Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 Cavalry. Also, your Twolf Lord you mentioned S7 rending attacks. Not possible. Thunderwolf mount and Mark both require you use no special weapons so the Frost Blade's +1S can't apply. Regardless, you're swinging a S7 Power Weapon. Shouldn't need the rending. Yes I noticed my little error there. He's S6 Power Weapon attacks, none of which count as rending. Ideally, throw him in with a Squad of Thunderwolf Calvary built like this: 5 Thunderwolfs (1 Stormshield, 1 Plasma Pistol, 1 Stormshield + Meltabombs, 1 Stormshield + Powerweapon, 1 Stormshield + Mark of the Wulfen) Would be nice, but only 1 TWM in a squad may have power weapon wargear. Also how are you getting a S7 model. base is 4 +1 for FB and +1 for TWM. = 6 Once again, I stated I noticed the math error. S6 it is. Also to talk about Thunderwolf Calvary, the options are this: Any Thunderwolf Rider may replace his bolt pistol with: Boltgun, Plasma Pistol, Storm ShieldAny Thunderwolf Rider may be equipped with Meltabombs One Thunderwolf Rider may replace his close combat weapon with: Power Weapon, Wolf Claw, Frost Blade, Power Fist, Thunderhammer, Stormshield One Thunderwolf Rider may take Mark of the Wulfen In this case, I took it like this: Rider 1: Storm Shield for Bolt Pistol Rider 2: Plasma Pistol for Bolt Pistol Rider 3: Storm Shield for Bolt Pistol, and takes Meltabombs Rider 4: Storm Shield for Bolt Pistol, and Power Weapon for Close Combat Weapon Rider 5: Storm Shield for Bolt Pistol and takes Mark of the Wulfen ^Only one Thunderwolf Calvary has a Power Weapon. And we have 5 Weapon groups. Independant character (eg. Wolf Lord) joins the group to give you 6 weapon groups out of 6 units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180444-space-wolf-tactica-wolf-lords/#findComment-2139015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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