Say...Space Wolf is expensive? I dont think so

[airbender]

Imagine your friend one day comes to you and says

"hey, I got this new sm character that has 4 wounds, when he lose half the wound he goes berserk and has FNP and EW.

Additionally half of his attack is rending, and he doesnt give you a KP if you kill him. And the best part is that he is just little more than 50 point."

 

What is your reaction?

Brothers, do you see where I am going?

Yes, that is Lone Wolf, with a Mark and two Fenrisan Wolves for %% points.

 

You would really want to kill him before him gets into your face, because when he does he is going to make his points back

But, trust me, with that fire power you could kill 4 WG (persummably better target) with ease.

Yet, if you play for KP, you probaly wont want to kill it.

 

Now what does these make?

A MOVING MEAT SHIELD that easily covers more than 50% of troops standing behind it. (yes it lines up like this -- I --)

If I cant say much about its power on battle ranges 1500pt above,

I can assure its usage on low count games between 500~1000.

An unparallel meatshield at that point range, plus any other unit which has the same firemagnetization and CC prowess would cost at least twice as much.

 

On another note, the Iron Priest with 4 Cyberwolves via Mobile Metal Box Cover or Droppod is also ugly.

The concept might sounds crazy, but try look at it as a cc monster of T5W5, A20 on the charge and auto-immune to Instant Death (no to mention the 4 S8 attacks)

...And it cost just little more than 100 points. :D

Look at the only unit with similiar power (not counting the runic armour and repairing): 5PAWG, 1TH, 1PF for 25 points more

Now in my opinion Iron Preist can really shine at the place in game for 1000~1500

 

TDAWG is also comes cheaper than it equivalents such as Vanilla Termies and DW Termies.

Yes TDAWG can not teleport, but who teleports when there are Landraiders and numerous IG players out there?

The ability of assigning pack leader make 5 with two ASC or CML a possible option along with many other potential combinations.

Also (please correct me on this one) one WG unit can potentially have two Dedicated Transport as there is no limitation on "how many dedicated transport can a unit have"

(as according to both p.67 of BRB and p.81 of C:SW; I believe this is an uncanny loophole by accident) :)

 

Not to mention Grey Hunter and Long Fangs puts both CSM and SM equivalents in shame at the same point cost.

 

I believe the backbone and many versatile performing units in SW is actually cheaper than their equivalents

Now am I a deranged maniac or there is indeed a different aspect of C: SW other than big costly SCs and Uberunits? ;)

 

 

Please post your comments and thoughts, C&C welcome!

 

 

edit: spelling, forgot the address, and lengthen the arguement

[Ryzouken]

If your army is footslogging (bad idea in 5th ed) then yeah, that technique might work. If not, then he's going to be slower than every other model in your army.

 

Also note that your initial explanation of the unit: an SM character with 4 wounds blah blah blah isn't actually accurate. Two of those wounds are saving on 6+ (so, not at all) and thus are actually a liability til they're dead. What's it take to down this unit? 3 bolter wounds followed by two plasma wounds (talking equivalencies here. Anything ap 6 for the first three wounds then anything ap2 or better). A single half strength squad of marines can clean this unit off the board in two turns, and they'll get those two turns as you're limited to walking.

[airbender]

If your army is footslogging (bad idea in 5th ed) then yeah, that technique might work. If not, then he's going to be slower than every other model in your army.

 

Also note that your initial explanation of the unit: an SM character with 4 wounds blah blah blah isn't actually accurate. Two of those wounds are saving on 6+ (so, not at all) and thus are actually a liability til they're dead. What's it take to down this unit? 3 bolter wounds followed by two plasma wounds (talking equivalencies here. Anything ap 6 for the first three wounds then anything ap2 or better). A single half strength squad of marines can clean this unit off the board in two turns, and they'll get those two turns as you're limited to walking.

I see your point

 

That is correct, and he can also die to 4 lasgun shots from 2 Guardsman, so as Ragnar and many others.

Footslogging is not really a problem, he could always find a taxi Rhino handy.

 

I would like to mind you that:

1. full mechanized army at 500~1000 can be little tight.

2. Lone Wolf taxiing or standing does not affect his ability of covering Long Fangs or other valuable units.

 

I am happy to hear your concern, please further your idea if you may :sweat:

[Coverfire]

I haven't got my codex in yet... so forgive my ignorance, but I don't understand how the Lone Wolf gets half his attacks as rending?

You mentioned Fen Wolves, but they would have standard close combat attacks wouldn't they?

 

Can Fen Wolves and Cyber Wolves travel in vehicles and Drop pods? How many Slots do they take up?

[Yeti]

I agree that in small games, lone wolves will be very useful, but that's mostly because we don't have the points for more expensive options like scouts and dreads.

 

As for the iron priest, a full squad (4 cyberwolves and 3 thralls) would require you to have at least a LR Redeemer. This would also be fairly limiting in small games ... though you could drop 1 wolf and fit them in a rhino.

 

In normal point ranges (1500-2000), the lone wolves have a lot of competition. Wolf guard increasingly important, dreads are very popular and scouts have long been a "go-to" unit for the wolves. A mounted Iron Priest could be a very useful unit too ... Lone wolves are kinda left out in the cold with all this competition.

[WG Vrox]

Space wolves are resonably priced, their HQs are expensive. I think most of it is we are used to having several cheap HQ choice and now we down to a few cheap ones and alot of really expensive ones. SS costing double what they are for C:SM commanders is a bit over compensative. 20 points would have been more like it.

 

Most everything else is reasonably priced, however I am not happy with SMB costing 35 points for WG, should be 25.

 

Vrox.

[utilityzero]

just to add to the discussion, what would people think about taking a lone wolf, or multiple lone wolves in an apoch game?

[airbender]

I haven't got my codex in yet... so forgive my ignorance, but I don't understand how the Lone Wolf gets half his attacks as rending?

You mentioned Fen Wolves, but they would have standard close combat attacks wouldn't they?

 

Can Fen Wolves and Cyber Wolves travel in vehicles and Drop pods? How many Slots do they take up?

1. Mark of Wulfen

2. Two spaces

 

I agree that in small games, lone wolves will be very useful, but that's mostly because we don't have the points for more expensive options like scouts and dreads.

As for the iron priest, a full squad (4 cyberwolves and 3 thralls) would require you to have at least a LR Redeemer. This would also be fairly limiting in small games ... though you could drop 1 wolf and fit them in a rhino.

In normal point ranges (1500-2000), the lone wolves have a lot of competition. Wolf guard increasingly important, dreads are very popular and scouts have long been a "go-to" unit for the wolves. A mounted Iron Priest could be a very useful unit too ... Lone wolves are kinda left out in the cold with all this competition.

 

totally agreed my brother, as I observed most casual games are 1500, Lone Wolf and Iron Preist can really shine there

 

Space wolves are resonably priced, their HQs are expensive. I think most of it is we are used to having several cheap HQ choice and now we down to a few cheap ones and alot of really expensive ones. SS costing double what they are for C:SM commanders is a bit over compensative. 20 points would have been more like it.

Most everything else is reasonably priced, however I am not happy with SMB costing 35 points for WG, should be 25.

Vrox.

Indeed, it is just appearently an impression that many people found SW is more expensive then SM; it is not.

 

just to add to the discussion, what would people think about taking a lone wolf, or multiple lone wolves in an apoch game?

 

hell yes, next time I play 6000pts Iam going to have 10 lone wolves for the effect :)

[Xtee]

Imagine your friend one day comes to you and says

"hey, I got this new sm character that has 4 wounds, when he lose half the wound he goes berserk and has FNP and EW.

Additionally half of his attack is rending, and he doesnt give you a KP if you kill him. And the best part is that he is just little more than 50 point."

 

 

Where does the FNP come from? I don't see it in lone wolf's rules.

[airbender]

Imagine your friend one day comes to you and says

"hey, I got this new sm character that has 4 wounds, when he lose half the wound he goes berserk and has FNP and EW.

Additionally half of his attack is rending, and he doesnt give you a KP if you kill him. And the best part is that he is just little more than 50 point."

 

 

Where does the FNP come from? I don't see it in lone wolf's rules.

P.29 bottom right croner

A Glorious Death

line 5

[Ryzouken]

I haven't got my codex in yet... so forgive my ignorance, but I don't understand how the Lone Wolf gets half his attacks as rending?

You mentioned Fen Wolves, but they would have standard close combat attacks wouldn't they?

 

Can Fen Wolves and Cyber Wolves travel in vehicles and Drop pods? How many Slots do they take up?

1. Mark of Wulfen

2. Two spaces

 

2. is partially incorrect. Drop Pods may not embark Wolves (whether Fenrisian or Thunder) as per their rules on page 47. When embarking on a Rhino, Razorback, or Land Raider they will take up two positions. One imagines that the rigors of orbital insertion are too much for the wolves.

[Annunsi]

@Ryzouken: Page 31, Loyal Companion Rule.

Edit: Never Mind..it's late, I'm sleepy

[Ryzouken]

--deleted due to above--

[airbender]

I haven't got my codex in yet... so forgive my ignorance, but I don't understand how the Lone Wolf gets half his attacks as rending?

You mentioned Fen Wolves, but they would have standard close combat attacks wouldn't they?

 

Can Fen Wolves and Cyber Wolves travel in vehicles and Drop pods? How many Slots do they take up?

1. Mark of Wulfen

2. Two spaces

 

2. is partially incorrect. Drop Pods may not embark Wolves (whether Fenrisian or Thunder) as per their rules on page 47. When embarking on a Rhino, Razorback, or Land Raider they will take up two positions. One imagines that the rigors of orbital insertion are too much for the wolves.

Thank you very much for correcting me, I must have overlooked the DP page.

 

May I ask your opinion regarding Wolf Guard's Transport?

[Grey Mage]

Imagine your friend one day comes to you and says

"hey, I got this new sm character that has 4 wounds, when he lose half the wound he goes berserk and has FNP and EW.

Additionally half of his attack is rending, and he doesnt give you a KP if you kill him. And the best part is that he is just little more than 50 point."

 

What is your reaction?

Brothers, do you see where I am going?

Yes, that is Lone Wolf, with a Mark and two Fenrisan Wolves for %% points.

 

You would really want to kill him before him gets into your face, because when he does he is going to make his points back

But, trust me, with that fire power you could kill 4 WG (persummably better target) with ease.

Yet, if you play for KP, you probaly wont want to kill it.

 

Now what does these make?

A MOVING MEAT SHIELD that easily covers more than 50% of troops standing behind it. (yes it lines up like this -- I --)

If I cant say much about its power on battle ranges 1500pt above,

I can assure its usage on low count games between 500~1000.

An unparallel meatshield at that point range, plus any other unit which has the same firemagnetization and CC prowess would cost at least twice as much.

Unless of course he took an entire slot all by himself- a slot held very dear by all SW players. If he was a FA slot hed be horribly overpowered, as is he has to balance out against some of the best choices in our list.

 

Wich is further compounded by the simple fact that he can never, ever, under any circumstances join a unit. So if your opponent wants him dead- wich is an automatic yes in 2/3 of all scenarios then he is completely unable to bodygaurd himself in the ways that that 4 wound character your talking about would.

 

On another note, the Iron Priest with 4 Cyberwolves via Mobile Metal Box Cover or Droppod is also ugly.

The concept might sounds crazy, but try look at it as a cc monster of T5W5, A20 on the charge and auto-immune to Instant Death (no to mention the 4 S8 attacks)

...And it cost just little more than 100 points. :D

Look at the only unit with similiar power (not counting the runic armour and repairing): 5PAWG, 1TH, 1PF for 25 points more

Now in my opinion Iron Preist can really shine at the place in game for 1000~1500

That doesnt sound right... auto immune to instant death? T5?

 

Again though, what I do know- hes a valuable elite slot that will almost always be spent on a Dreadnaught, scouts, or wolfgaurd. Not only that but hes not nearly as good at his job- repairing vehicles- as his codex counterpart. He is admittedly better at killing things.

 

TDAWG is also comes cheaper than it equivalents such as Vanilla Termies and DW Termies.

Yes TDAWG can not teleport, but who teleports when there are Landraiders and numerous IG players out there?

The ability of assigning pack leader make 5 with two ASC or CML a possible option along with many other potential combinations.

Also (please correct me on this one) one WG unit can potentially have two Dedicated Transport as there is no limitation on "how many dedicated transport can a unit have"

(as according to both p.67 of BRB and p.81 of C:SW; I believe this is an uncanny loophole by accident) ;)

 

Not to mention Grey Hunter and Long Fangs puts both CSM and SM equivalents in shame at the same point cost.

 

I believe the backbone and many versatile performing units in SW is actually cheaper than their equivalents

Now am I a deranged maniac or there is indeed a different aspect of C: SW other than big costly SCs and Uberunits? ;)

 

 

Please post your comments and thoughts, C&C welcome!

 

 

edit: spelling, forgot the address, and lengthen the arguement

63pts for a TDA with SS+TH is cheaper than codex marines how? 43pts for a fist and SB? Sorry, but your way off base here. And yes, there is a restriction to how many dedicated transports a unit can have- 1.

 

Long Fangs have at most 6 wounds unless accompanied by a character- and to shame? They can get 1 extra weapon, the Devastators can get BS 5. Not to mention theyre partiall redundant because of squad based weapons... but thats another story. Split fire? Combat squads- each squad you break up will be about the price of a Long Fang squad, can fire independantly of each other and takes up only one HS slot- oh, and in KP games if your worrying about preservation you can just keep them together. Thats amazing flexability and 5 extra wounds of durability.

 

Grey Hunters... Have always put their codex brethren to shame. Little less so in CC now *IMHO, I know others will disagree* and a little more so in shooting. If you didnt know GH were one of the best troops in the game your over a decade out of date.

 

But, hey, thats just my opinion.

[Hfran Morkai]

The Iron Priest CAN be as good as a codex marine, he needs saga of the Iron Wolf to make him repair on a 4+ instead of the normal 5+. Then three thrall servitors put it up to technically a 1+ which doesn't exist so it stays a 2+ repair roll with one servitor capable of being destroyed and still getting a 2+ roll. However I don't see myself using him except in apocalypse games, simply not enough armour for him to look after.