rending thunder hammers - yes they do exist!

[Wispy]

Because some people don't understand... The Cav don't have the mount wargear. The ONLY place where it says thunderwolf rending doesn't apply to special weapons, is in the Thunderwolf Mount wargear entry. THe Cav have an updated profile that reflects them riding a wolf, the rending special rule with no caveats, and no thunderwolf mount wargear. Because of this, there is no caveats for the rend. None.

 

One last time: Thunderwolf Cavalry don't have the thunderwolf wargear. Only HQs with the mount upgrade have the wargear. Only HQs with the thunderwolf mount wargear have the caveat that they can't rend with special weapons.

[thade]

Yes but why would you need rending on a strength 10 weapon that ingnors armour? :P

Yeah, rending or not does not make ANY differnece when you have strenght 10 and ignore armour saves. :)

Actually, Rending DOES make a difference. Not against infantry, but against vehicles...as when you rend, you get to do an additional D3 worth of armor penetration.

 

So instead of getting 1d6, you get 1d6+1d3 of armor pen. (Check the Rending entry in the BRB. <3)

Which on a Strength 10 weapon doesn't matter as the top armor is 14. If you roll the rend, you've already got a penetrating hit.

 

Ah ha! Joke's on me. You are quite right.

[MaveriK]

Because some people don't understand... The Cav don't have the mount wargear. The ONLY place where it says thunderwolf rending doesn't apply to special weapons, is in the Thunderwolf Mount wargear entry. THe Cav have an updated profile that reflects them riding a wolf, the rending special rule with no caveats, and no thunderwolf mount wargear. Because of this, there is no caveats for the rend. None.

 

One last time: Thunderwolf Cavalry don't have the thunderwolf wargear. Only HQs with the mount upgrade have the wargear. Only HQs with the thunderwolf mount wargear have the caveat that they can't rend with special weapons.

 

I'm not catching you.. my universal translator was sat on by an ice bear. Can you say that in Fenrisian language? ahem, let me try it for you "ale now, rending later"

[Kenmichi]

Because some people don't understand... The Cav don't have the mount wargear. The ONLY place where it says thunderwolf rending doesn't apply to special weapons, is in the Thunderwolf Mount wargear entry. THe Cav have an updated profile that reflects them riding a wolf, the rending special rule with no caveats, and no thunderwolf mount wargear. Because of this, there is no caveats for the rend. None.

 

One last time: Thunderwolf Cavalry don't have the thunderwolf wargear. Only HQs with the mount upgrade have the wargear. Only HQs with the thunderwolf mount wargear have the caveat that they can't rend with special weapons.

 

I understand, but I don't think that's how GW intended it to be understood. I could be wrong, but it doesn't make sense, to me, to allow a random TWC guy to rend with a TH when the only other units in the game that can do that are named special heroes, and two only have Lightning (Wolf) Claws. I would anticipate this to be FAQ'd and cleared up, but until then I guess you can have some fun with it.

[Gentlemanloser]

Yeah, I upgraded a TWC with a Thunderhammer.

 

I don't think it's worth it though. For the points, a Rending Power Weapon or maybe Frost Blade (for S6) should be enough. A FB would let you potentially penetrate a LR. And you get to mow down Infantry on Initiative. ;)

[Silvtalon]

Yeah, I upgraded a TWC with a Thunderhammer.

 

I don't think it's worth it though. For the points, a Rending Power Weapon or maybe Frost Blade (for S6) should be enough. A FB would let you potentially penetrate a LR. And you get to mow down Infantry on Initiative. ;)

 

I honestly perfer the s10 powerfist any model that has toughness 5 or lower and no eternal warrior or immune to instant death are toast.

 

We will most likely see an FAQ in the next week or so on this topic on warhammer 40k website for sure. Honestly you have to ask are we talking about rules as written or rules as intented?

 

Rules as Intended:

TWC's wouldnt have rending on special close combat weapons.

 

Rules as written

TWC's could have rending on special close combat weapons since it doesn't specify in its entry.

 

The question is.. What are we looking at first of all. Rules as written or intended?

[Toasterfree]

can someone please quote the BRB USR for rending please?

[Brother Nicolas]

actually it's the other way around oldenhaller

i'm saying characters can't combine rending and weapons but units of thunderwolves can.

 

 

Were does it state they can? were does it stat this unit overiders the core book on page 42?

[Toasterfree]

actually it's the other way around oldenhaller

i'm saying characters can't combine rending and weapons but units of thunderwolves can.

 

 

Were does it state they can? were does it stat this unit overiders the core book on page 42?

it says that characters DO NOT GET RENDING in the TWM entry in the wargear section

[Gentlemanloser]

Conversly, the TWC entry states they get Rending (Close Combat Only).

 

*No* stipulation there about not being able to be used with Special Close Combat Weapons.

 

Unlike the Mark of the Wulfen, or a Thunderwolf Mount.

[Toasterfree]

need a quote from the BRB USR section on rending please...

[Gentlemanloser]

What you wanna know?

[Toasterfree]

what EXACTLY the entry says...hence a quote

[Gentlemanloser]

Ain't gonna type it all out. :P

 

It's included twice in the book, neither times as a USR.

 

It's included as an "Additional Weapon Characteristic" in the Shooting section, and is mentioned under the "Special Close Combat Weapons" subsection of the "Close Combat Weapon" Assault section.

 

If you want to ignore the shooting section (which in conjunction with the assault section iplies that 'Rending' is a rule added to an exisitng weapon), the first line of the Rending rule is;

 

"If a model armed with a Rending close combat weapon rolls a 6".

 

An arguement could be made that 'Rending' is a special close combat weapon in itself, so couldn't stack with a Power Weapon or Thunderhammer.

 

But then, the TWC would have a 'Rending' Weapon as wargear, to go alongisde thier CCW and Bolt Pistol. Which they don't.

 

Rending is a Special Rule, applied to either the Shooting and/or Close Combat Weapon the model is using.

[Cargaden]

Just my 2 cents real quick....I've seen the argument that the mount is listed for certain characters, and is not the same for the unit....a jump pack for an IC runs just the same as a jump pack for an assault marine. I think this was meant to be the same thing. A thunderwolf is a thunderwolf.

[Gentlemanloser]

Skyclaws have a Jump Pack as wargear.

[Toasterfree]

Ain't gonna type it all out. :P

 

It's included twice in the book, neither times as a USR.

 

It's included as an "Additional Weapon Characteristic" in the Shooting section, and is mentioned under the "Special Close Combat Weapons" subsection of the "Close Combat Weapon" Assault section.

 

If you want to ignore the shooting section (which in conjunction with the assault section iplies that 'Rending' is a rule added to an exisitng weapon), the first line of the Rending rule is;

 

"If a model armed with a Rending close combat weapon rolls a 6".

 

An arguement could be made that 'Rending' is a special close combat weapon in itself, so couldn't stack with a Power Weapon or Thunderhammer.

 

But then, the TWC would have a 'Rending' Weapon as wargear, to go alongisde thier CCW and Bolt Pistol. Which they don't.

 

Rending is a Special Rule, applied to either the Shooting and/or Close Combat Weapon the model is using.

then TH and FW are NOT rending weapons. therefore if you upgrade a TWC mount with one, they lose the rending ability because the special weapon that they MUST use (or may choose to use) does NOT have that ability. just because the unit has it, the weapon does not. look in the wargear section for the weapons that are going to put on it to see if they have the rule. Shriek is a special case because his special rules GIVE him rending.

[Gentlemanloser]

I covered that...

 

Rending is a Special rule, not tied to any specific wargear.

 

It's ther ein the unit entry.

 

They *do not* have a Rending Close Combat Wepaon.

 

They have a normal Close Combat Weapon, and the Rending 'Special Rule' (which *isn't* weapon dependent).

[Toasterfree]

If a model armed with a Rending close combat weapon rolls a 6

 

in the case of shooting, is a bolt gun rending? no

is an assualt cannon rending? yes

 

so what you arealso saying is that any bolt weapons fired from the back of TWC are rending also?

 

horse :)

 

if a weapon has the rule then it applies to the weapon. it is weapon dependent.

[Gentlemanloser]

>_<

 

No...

 

Becuase the TWC *Special Rule* is "Rending (Close Combat only).

 

If the (Close Combat only) wasn't there, then *yes* thier Bolts Pistols would Rend.

 

Edit: Again, please look at the Unit Entry.

 

They *do not* have a Rending Weapon in thier Wargear.

[Cargaden]

Skyclaws have a Jump Pack as wargear.

 

 

I know skyclaws have the jump packs. My reference is towards movement affecting gear, whether it be mounts, bikes or jump packs. They run the same for everybody who has them.

[Gentlemanloser]

Point is (And I agree it's an oversight, and most likely to be FAQed...), currently, TWC don't have a Thunderwolf Mount.

 

RAW versus RAI and all that. ;)

 

And while my opponents want my casting RP to take a JotWW test, I'll be using Rending Power Weapons on my TWC. ;)

[Wispy]

Here's the thing that makes me unsure about considering them having the wargear: If the Cav was meant to have the wargear, then I would contest that the HQ with the mount wargear should have the same profile modifications as the Cav. Specifically, true T5 (for instant death) and true S5 (for purposes of doubling it with a TH or PF to S10). As the mount modifies their profile, an HQ with a mount should actuall have T4(5) and S9 with PF and hammers instead.

[Ryzouken]

actually, I'm looking at this a different way. Because the Thunderwolf mount specifies it adds to the unit's profile and not just to the unit, I'm of the opinion that the +str DOES apply to the doubling effect of fist analogues. Further, no special distinction is made regarding the +T and thus it does apply to instant death calculations (bikes call out that the +T does not apply to ID calculation specifically. Thunderwolf mounts hold no such stipulation).

 

Sadly, it'll take a FAQ before my opinion on the matter is universally accepted because the above logic flies in the face of traditional stat gains (this isn't a negative reflection on my logic though, I'm of the opinion that the logic matches the upgrade. The verbiage on Thunderwolf Mounts is as tradition defying as the above logic.)

[Toasterfree]

the only reason why you get t4(5) for the bike is for the protection that it offers you. while the RIDER is still t4, which is the reason why he dies to a missile (ID anyway) the reason why a TWM modifies your BASE profile is that there is a symbiosis of rider and mount that results in a t5 as well as a s5 for having to handle the mount.

 

its the aspect of rending that seems to be he most contention. while there are some units that dont have things listed as wargear, this does not preclude them from being subject to the same things as what an upgrade for a IC would have. It is understood that a unit of TWC be on TWMs because that is their unit type. the thunderwolf entry states that using a special close combat weapon cancels out rending, therefore it would carry over to the unit