My thoughts on the new SW Codex

[Tamwulf]

My quick read through of the codex so far:

 

1. Space Wolf Characters < CSM Characters.

 

Where is my Vulkan and "all flamers/meltas are twin linked" or Khan "All units get Outflank"? In other words, where are the characters that affect the entire army instead of just a couple units? Marneus Calgar isn't known as the bad ass warrior, Logan Grimnar is. Ruleswise, how is it that if these two ever fought, I'd have to place my money on Calgar?

 

This is not to say I don't like the SW Characters. I like them a lot! They have a lot of local unit effects, while CSM Characters have army wide effects. The only reason I can see is that to play Crimson Fists, you take Kantor and get all his abilities making his army different from an Ultramarines army. For Space Wolves, they get a whole slew of special rules for units. So I guess it balances out.

 

2. If I take 10 Wolf Guard, one of them can have Termy Armor, an Assault Cannon, a Storm Shield, and Cyclone Missile Launcher. Not that I ever would do that, but it's there. ;)

 

3. Sagas- On one hand, awesome. Great idea to make your own Wolf Lord and give him a bit of "pre-canned" fluff. On the other hand, any rule that requires a Designer's Note explaining the intent should probably not be a special rule in the codex. On top of that, what do they mean by "Should survive the battle to keep his Oath" or should attack one of the types of models listed above, or some action should be avoided at all costs... Or what? :tu: What will happen in the game, if I don't keep this oath?

 

4. What where they thinking when they made Njal Stormcaller??? I wish there was a little smiley with a jaw dropping.

 

5. I'm a bit disappointed that we lost the Leman Russ Exterminator. It had to go though- no Space Marine army should have access to that kind of tank. On the other hand, nothing really replaced it either. We got a Land Raider Redeemer. Wouldn't it have been cool if we got the rumored Land Raider with assault cannons?

 

6. Space Marines riding Wolves into battle ranks right up there with 10' geneticly altered super humans riding motorcycles into battle. I'm not sure which one is more silly.

 

7. Regular Dreadnought vs. Venerable Dreadnought: I'm not sure 60 points is worth the +1 WS/BS and the reroll on the armor tables. Am I missing something here? I mean, two regular Dreads will cost 210 points, a mere 45 points more than a Venerable Dread. The saga a Venerable can take? That will cost more points. Bjorn the Fell Handed though... worth every point.

 

8. Arjac Rockfist, the Anvil of Fenris, or, as I like to call him, the guy that will be included in every Space Wolf army. Let me get this straight- a special character with a stat line better then a Wolf Guard Battle Leader, kick butt wargear, "Grimnar's Champion" to kill independent Characters/Monstrous Creatures, oh and he can throw his Thunderhammer!?!?! And he does not count as an HQ choice? AND (finally) he is not an independent character, but I can attach him to just about any other unit in the game?!?! Sign me up!

 

9. Lukas The Trickster, aka "GW's check on whether or not you really, really understand close combat". I've read him. Three times. I've read and reread the close combat section in the BBB. I still don't "get him" and his "Pelt of the Doppegangrel". Guess I'll reread it all again. ;) I'll probably just avoid him in my army lists.

 

10. Grey Hunters. The best Troops in the game. Eight of these guys, in a Drop Pod, led by Arjac... pure win.

 

Final Thoughts: All in all, a good codex, with enough differences to make it unique from all the other codexii out there. The temptation to take a bunch of powerful characters and skimp on the troops is there, just like the old 'Dex, which would be a mistake. The strength of the Space Wolves lies in the Grey Hunters/Blood Claws.

[MaveriK]

10. Grey Hunters. The best Troops in the game. Eight of these guys, in a Drop Pod, led by Arjac... pure win.

 

I like that! I also like putting a Wolf Guard in TDA, SB + PW, CML to help support my Long Fangs.

[Hfran Morkai]

Grimnar's got the advantage of having a frost blade, strength five attacks at I5 and eternal warrior should keep him alive. Plus he hits on threes I believe but doesn't reroll everything.

 

And the reason our characters don't affect the entire army is because we don't need it. Those traits are meant to represent different chapters ways of waging war.

[rodgers37]

Yeah thats some good thoughts there, i imagine a lot of people (including me) think along the same lines.... i am really looking foward to having all my stuff built and painted :P

[Brother Grius]

I would say that we do have characters that change our entire army. For one, an army where Wolf Guard are Troops will play very differently from any other list built in our codex. The same can be said for Wolves of Fenris as Troops. As well, with Ragnar's 12" Furious Charge ability, you can't tell me you won't mold your tactics around that.

 

I'm very happy with the Special Characters in the new C:SW.

[Wolf Guard Hengist]

I would say that we do have characters that change our entire army. For one, an army where Wolf Guard are Troops will play very differently from any other list built in our codex. The same can be said for Wolves of Fenris as Troops. As well, with Ragnar's 12" Furious Charge ability, you can't tell me you won't mold your tactics around that.

 

I'm very happy with the Special Characters in the new C:SW.

 

My thoughts exactly, well said.

[Bonham1963]

5. I'm a bit disappointed that we lost the Leman Russ Exterminator. It had to go though- no Space Marine army should have access to that kind of tank. On the other hand, nothing really replaced it either. We got a Land Raider Redeemer. Wouldn't it have been cool if we got the rumored Land Raider with assault cannons?

 

Surprised by this comment. Sure you lose LR Exterminator, but you do the TLAC in the redeemer and crusader and less or same cost and they get the frag assault launcher, too boot. Why buy a stock Land Raider, except for the LC's?

[Grey Mage]

5. I'm a bit disappointed that we lost the Leman Russ Exterminator. It had to go though- no Space Marine army should have access to that kind of tank. On the other hand, nothing really replaced it either. We got a Land Raider Redeemer. Wouldn't it have been cool if we got the rumored Land Raider with assault cannons?

 

I have to ask.... why do people say this?

[whitewolfmxc]

It was a symbolic tank that i personally like to use ><

[Hrathnar Flintfang]

My quick read through of the codex so far:

 

1. Space Wolf Characters < CSM Characters.

 

Where is my Vulkan and "all flamers/meltas are twin linked" or Khan "All units get Outflank"? In other words, where are the characters that affect the entire army instead of just a couple units? Marneus Calgar isn't known as the bad ass warrior, Logan Grimnar is. Ruleswise, how is it that if these two ever fought, I'd have to place my money on Calgar?

 

This is not to say I don't like the SW Characters. I like them a lot! They have a lot of local unit effects, while CSM Characters have army wide effects. The only reason I can see is that to play Crimson Fists, you take Kantor and get all his abilities making his army different from an Ultramarines army. For Space Wolves, they get a whole slew of special rules for units. So I guess it balances out.

 

I think generic wolf lords and the like are fine, and personally if you took all of the named heroes out of the game, I'd be happier. Besides its not about having better stuff, its about playing the game you love. Vulkan, Khan, all of that crap just made the game worse. We already have too much Hero hammer, best if we don't support it and show people how 40K is really played, for fun.

 

 

2. If I take 10 Wolf Guard, one of them can have Termy Armor, an Assault Cannon, a Storm Shield, and Cyclone Missile Launcher. Not that I ever would do that, but it's there. ;)

 

And you have a problem with this? You don't have to be prudent with points, that is half the fun.

 

3. Sagas- On one hand, awesome. Great idea to make your own Wolf Lord and give him a bit of "pre-canned" fluff. On the other hand, any rule that requires a Designer's Note explaining the intent should probably not be a special rule in the codex. On top of that, what do they mean by "Should survive the battle to keep his Oath" or should attack one of the types of models listed above, or some action should be avoided at all costs... Or what? :confused: What will happen in the game, if I don't keep this oath?

 

Why not? Thats what everyone's precious characters have, only worse. As for what will happen, You will have to live with knowing the fact that you didn't pull it off. Things are far bigger than winning and losing. The 'power gamer' offset of Sagas are who can take them and the point cost. The FUN reason they have all of those things is because it gives you a bit of incentive to work towards, mixes things up!

 

4. What where they thinking when they made Njal Stormcaller??? I wish there was a little smiley with a jaw dropping.

 

Not sure how you mean, Honestly haven't even read his entry. Not interested in using him. Mind elaborating?

 

5. I'm a bit disappointed that we lost the Leman Russ Exterminator. It had to go though- no Space Marine army should have access to that kind of tank. On the other hand, nothing really replaced it either. We got a Land Raider Redeemer. Wouldn't it have been cool if we got the rumored Land Raider with assault cannons?

 

It would have, I wrote a data sheet for one, Its probably three or four pages back, Use it or your own creation in Apoc. As for the Exterminator, well, we got other stuff to more than make up for it. Really we only had it cause of the name.

 

6. Space Marines riding Wolves into battle ranks right up there with 10' geneticly altered super humans riding motorcycles into battle. I'm not sure which one is more silly.

 

... You know, I have explained the absurdity of 40K as a whole so many times, not going to go into this one. Please just insert a rant about how this was all more or less a joke setting that people started taking too seriously here.

 

7. Regular Dreadnought vs. Venerable Dreadnought: I'm not sure 60 points is worth the +1 WS/BS and the reroll on the armor tables. Am I missing something here? I mean, two regular Dreads will cost 210 points, a mere 45 points more than a Venerable Dread. The saga a Venerable can take? That will cost more points. Bjorn the Fell Handed though... worth every point.

 

It is not, we got the same as the 'nellas only now we don't have the Ironclad. They figure we can just use Bjorn and be happy. Takes away our old 'warriors coming back from the dead' dread spiffyness

 

8. Arjac Rockfist, the Anvil of Fenris, or, as I like to call him, the guy that will be included in every Space Wolf army. Let me get this straight- a special character with a stat line better then a Wolf Guard Battle Leader, kick butt wargear, "Grimnar's Champion" to kill independent Characters/Monstrous Creatures, oh and he can throw his Thunderhammer!?!?! And he does not count as an HQ choice? AND (finally) he is not an independent character, but I can attach him to just about any other unit in the game?!?! Sign me up!

 

I won't be using him. but hay, to each their own.

 

9. Lukas The Trickster, aka "GW's check on whether or not you really, really understand close combat". I've read him. Three times. I've read and reread the close combat section in the BBB. I still don't "get him" and his "Pelt of the Doppegangrel". Guess I'll reread it all again. ;) I'll probably just avoid him in my army lists.

 

Again, didn't read him. Just give your blood claws a Termie WG with assault cannon. they will be fine. Best not to dwell if he is that confuisng (Which I am sure he must be)

 

10. Grey Hunters. The best Troops in the game. Eight of these guys, in a Drop Pod, led by Arjac... pure win.

 

Well they ARE wolves. naturally they would be a cut above normal troops

 

Final Thoughts: All in all, a good codex, with enough differences to make it unique from all the other codexii out there. The temptation to take a bunch of powerful characters and skimp on the troops is there, just like the old 'Dex, which would be a mistake. The strength of the Space Wolves lies in the Grey Hunters/Blood Claws.

 

Mostly agree with you, though I think the fun lies more in the Wolf Guard, but that is just me. Still don't get why people love the named characters, but I do agree that the wolves are alot better in terms of customization and the FEEL of 40K than other 5E codex.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

3. Sagas- On one hand, awesome. Great idea to make your own Wolf Lord and give him a bit of "pre-canned" fluff. On the other hand, any rule that requires a Designer's Note explaining the intent should probably not be a special rule in the codex. On top of that, what do they mean by "Should survive the battle to keep his Oath" or should attack one of the types of models listed above, or some action should be avoided at all costs... Or what? :confused: What will happen in the game, if I don't keep this oath?

 

You should know by now, by being on this board, how much we all love our fluff. I think that is why they included the oathbreaking part of sagas. ;) ;) :lol:

[Toasterfree]

2. If I take 10 Wolf Guard, one of them can have Termy Armor, an Assault Cannon, a Storm Shield, and Cyclone Missile Launcher. Not that I ever would do that, but it's there

 

you can take 10 wolf guard all in TDA, but only two can have heavy weapons, but they all have SB/PW for 33 points.

[Rokafort Stonewolf]

Agreed. SW don't have the big boom of Vulkan lists or other big piles of broken, and will be relegated to the middle tiers. They still seem like a really fun list to play, and I'm honestly tempted to drop my competitive attitude for a bit, grab some drop pods, and slam Logan and his sixty drinking buddies down my gaming club's throat next weekend.

[pchappel]

Hey, good to see another refugee from the old BattleMaster boards...

 

:) Well, really liking the "new" Grey Hunters... The Mark of the Wulfen really worked out well for all of my squads when I tried it out this evening. Almost makes up for the lost second power type weapon in the squad...

 

I have to admit I'm liking the Skyclaws, but that's the "Airborne" thing again... Got a few lucky rolls on the Wulfen thing there and the basic unit did quite well before all dying :)

 

Liking the "Living Lightning" with the unlimited range and STR 7 shots... Testing out more of the "troops" than the HQ, but the Rune Priest wound up doing quite well shooting that off...

 

Kind of missing the "extra" troop capacity in the Land Raider, but what can you do... Need the extra ale I guess, so sacrifices must be made...

[Grey Mage]

Agreed. SW don't have the big boom of Vulkan lists or other big piles of broken, and will be relegated to the middle tiers. They still seem like a really fun list to play, and I'm honestly tempted to drop my competitive attitude for a bit, grab some drop pods, and slam Logan and his sixty drinking buddies down my gaming club's throat next weekend.

Middle teirs my hind end! Weve been winning tournaments with the old book, once Ive got a handle on the new one I dont expect that trend to change.

[Hrathnar Flintfang]

Agreed. SW don't have the big boom of Vulkan lists or other big piles of broken, and will be relegated to the middle tiers. They still seem like a really fun list to play, and I'm honestly tempted to drop my competitive attitude for a bit, grab some drop pods, and slam Logan and his sixty drinking buddies down my gaming club's throat next weekend.

Middle teirs my hind end! Weve been winning tournaments with the old book, once Ive got a handle on the new one I dont expect that trend to change.

 

AYE! What is this foolish talk of Teirs. We are wolves, we are the Sons of Russ. Why should we concern ourselves with the statistics and charts that power gamers make up to comfort themselves about what is 'best' to play. That is not our way. We will continue to fight and to win no matter the odds!

[Toasterfree]

well for nilla marines you need to find the advantages like that to wreck house. as SW we get 10 marines, and two, count that TWO meltas or flamers and only pay for one. while its not the same twin linked, its BETTER! its two shots, two penetration rolls, or two sets of stacked wounds, not re-roll wounds with flamers. its BETTER!

 

 

FOR THE ALLFATHER! IT'S WOLFTIME!

[Grey Mage]

This is why I love Space Wolves... you cant keep a good Wolf down... and underdog takes a whole new meaning.

 

*Beings clashing his gauntlet on his Storm Shield*