Seif3r Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 As the topic mentioned, i have a few questions regarding the new CSW. Tried searching for some of the answers and got some semi-fussy answers, so as an old wolf once told me when i was a mere pup, head on approach is better than luriking in the shadows... first of, MotW and thunderwolf cavalry, can't use any special weapon attacks thanks to rending rule, but why do they have the option to choose them? secondly, do we still have anything close to true grit? the GH's come with bolters and CCW's, and all WG's and HQ's can choose combi weapons... is there still a 100p limit to pooped kind of wargear we can give our heroes? nothing is mentioned i belive... For Russ and the Allfather! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180618-a-few-codex-questions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 first of, MotW and thunderwolf cavalry, can't use any special weapon attacks thanks to rending rule, but why do they have the option to choose them? No model can combine Mark of the Wulfen with any special weapon attacks. Thunderwolf Cavalry also already have rending, with 4 attacks base. Spending 15 points to replace that 4 attacks base, with D6+1, is a bit of a waste to me really. Yes, you can a potential extra 3 attacks, but you can just as well only get 2 or 3 attacks. secondly, do we still have anything close to true grit? the GH's come with bolters and CCW's, and all WG's and HQ's can choose combi weapons... True Grit is gone. Instead, Grey Hunters have Bolters, Bolt Pistols, and CCW, so they can always fight in combat with two hand weapons (thus getting the bonus attack). In essence, super-grit, because you can walk up, fire pistols, and charge in (kind of like an extra attack). Wolf Guard and HQ must have two hand weapons to get an attack bonus. is there still a 100p limit to pooped kind of wargear we can give our heroes? nothing is mentioned i belive... There is not. They're phasing the wargear limit out by streamlining your available options. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180618-a-few-codex-questions/#findComment-2138620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seif3r Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 first of, MotW and thunderwolf cavalry, can't use any special weapon attacks thanks to rending rule, but why do they have the option to choose them? No model can combine Mark of the Wulfen with any special weapon attacks. Thunderwolf Cavalry also already have rending, with 4 attacks base. Spending 15 points to replace that 4 attacks base, with D6+1, is a bit of a waste to me really. Yes, you can a potential extra 3 attacks, but you can just as well only get 2 or 3 attacks. I dont think i really got the entire part of your answer. Right, MotW cant use specials, got it... but a thunderwolf cavalry without MotW can have rending and special weapon? If they can't, then why in Russ's name do they have special weapon upgrade? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180618-a-few-codex-questions/#findComment-2138631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I dont think i really got the entire part of your answer. Right, MotW cant use specials, got it... but a thunderwolf cavalry without MotW can have rending and special weapon?If they can't, then why in Russ's name do they have special weapon upgrade? What's not to get? Mark of the Wulfen replaces the model's profile Attack characteristic with D6+1. Doesn't matter who it is. A Grey Hunter with Mark of the Wulfen has D6+1 Attacks, just like a Thunderwolf Cavalry model would have D6+1 Attacks. Mark of the Wulfen attacks are also made with hands and teeth, and so you cannot count any bonuses from special weapons (re: Power Weapons, Frost Blades, Power Fists, Thunder Hammers, etc.) This also means that you cannot get the bonus for being armed with two hand weapons. So a model with Mark of the Wulfen, be it Grey Hunter with a Bolter, or a Wolf Guard with Frost Blade, only ever make D6+1 attacks, +1 for charging, with the Rending special rule, and nothing else. Thunderwolf Cavalry are tricky because they are not equipped with Thunderwolf Mounts. So you cannot go by the Thunderwolf Mount rules listed in the Wargear section. They have their own individual statline, and their own special rules. And all the Special Rules state is that they have Rending. SO...by RAW, Thunderwolf Cavalry, who have 4 Attacks and Rending, can stack that on top of say, a Power Fist, and have 4 Attacks, with Rending, striking at S10 and I1, ignoring armor saves. However, a Thunderwolf Cavalry, with Mark of the Wulfen, gets D6+1 Attacks, and Rending (stacking 2 Rendings does nothing), and counts no bonuses for two hand weapons, nor any special rules for such things as Power Weapons/Fists/etc. Clearer? EDIT: You're going to run into a lot of confusion between the RAW interpretation and RAI interpretation of Thunderwolf Mounts and Thunderwolf Cavalry, whereby people assume Thunderwolf Cavalry use the rules for Thunderwolf Mounts as well, and vice versa, the Thunderwolf Mount profile bonuses are applied like Thunderwolf Cavalry (straight up increases, not bracketed). By RAW, they are two independent, exclusive things. By RAI, (and I'm of this party, the rules should overlap). That being said, if in doubt, play by RAW until GW FAQs it. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180618-a-few-codex-questions/#findComment-2138670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seif3r Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 alright mate, thanks a bunch, the only jiff i have left with the codex now is the problem with 10-15 extra power weapons i can never use again =( but yeah, your answer was great thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180618-a-few-codex-questions/#findComment-2138702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 IIRC Mark is only 5 points for TWC. It's still 5 points to much. It's like buying Strom Bolters for Sternguard. If anything, they sohuld be free upgrades. A Mark will only break even averagly, and stop you using a Rending Special Close Combat Weapon. But. I suppose it's use would be to give to any other TWC than the 1 who can buy a Special. It might be useful for wound allocation shenanigans, if you don't mind sometimes *losing* attacks becuase of it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180618-a-few-codex-questions/#findComment-2138715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haroof Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 alright mate, thanks a bunch, the only jiff i have left with the codex now is the problem with 10-15 extra power weapons i can never use again =( I don't suppose you could use these guys as Wolf Guard, or are you overloaded on Wolf Guard as it is? Or models don't look appropriate? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180618-a-few-codex-questions/#findComment-2138828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilhelm Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I've just been breaking the arms off of my extra fists and power weapon guys, cleaning em up and making them into whatever. Takes 5 minutes, plus of course a lot of painting. Not to mention the new parts and poses look better than the old kits from which some of the old models were made. Win-win. Likewise, I've cannibalized half my 13th company, since I don't anticipate using them any time soon! The tough part is carving off or puttying over the chaos icons on the invaluable legs. But then again, I have a lot of 2nd/3rd edition crap which I'm trying to replace, so it works out well for me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180618-a-few-codex-questions/#findComment-2138998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seif3r Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 most of them was my earlier figures, since then all my WG's have been quite extencively modelled... but i can probably go out and do a little GS shopping and convert them a bit... The only thing i have to do though is buy like 20 jump packs and i'm ready to go... the skyclaws seem sweet! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180618-a-few-codex-questions/#findComment-2139016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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