How do I stop the enemy from charging me?

[StrangeGuy]

I'm fairly inexperienced when it comes to playing 40k, and in a lot of the posts here on the b and c people give the advice "deny your enemy the charge" or something along those lines. Usually this advice is given when talking about fighting Orks or other assault oriented armies, so my question to you more experienced players is: What can I do as a player to prevent my opponent from being able to charge into close combat with my forces? Is it as simple as keeping your forces 7" away at all times? Are there certain units or character abilities that I can use to prevent this? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Vedrial]

Well, you've got several different tactics availible there.

 

1.) Rhinos. If you keep your sqaud inside their Rhino, but leave it close to your enemy, it can work wonders, especially against an enemy such as Orks. Orks rely on the Power Klaw for a good deal of their anti-tank. Thus, if your enemy charges the transport and pops it, your sqaud is then free to charge the enemy on the next turn.

 

2.) Supporting fast attack. Nothing says tactics like rapid firing with your tactical sqaud, then bring that assault sqaud or bike sqaud in and charging the enemy. You deal plenty of wounds with the rapid firing, and the fast attack denies them the charge; it's the best of both worlds.

[Chengar Qordath]

Also, against Orks it's much better to charge them than to be charged by them since Orks have Furious Charge. Ork Boyz are much more dangerous when they gain all their bonuses for charging than they are in regular close combat.

[Koremu]

Use difficult terrain to impede their movement. Remember that the recommended terrain coverage on a 40k board is for a quarter of the table to be covered, and that the game is really helped by the presence of multi-level terrain.

 

The Thunderfire helps because whatever it shoots moves as if in difficult terrain.

[ShinyRhino]

There's several things you can do to avoid charges.

 

Stay mobile. Keep moving around the table as best you can. A moving target is harder to hit and pin down. But be wary of your surroundings and don't get penned in. All enemies have a 12" charge "threat". 6" in the movement phase, and 6" more on the charge. You'll want a 13" cushion against MOST things. The exceptions are things like Tyranids, who have Fleet. Jump Pack, Cavalry, and Bikes can move 12" and charge 6".

 

Stay in cover. If you can't keep moving, at least try to stay in cover. Against any unit that doesn't have assault grenades (frags for Marines, etc), you get all you attacks first. This will softent he blow somewhat, but I find that anything that's charging you tends to be strong enough to weather your attacks and still put the hurt on you.

 

Stay high. If you can put a unit on a roof or other elevated area, the opponent has to get to you to charge. If you're on top of a 7" building, the opponent can NEVER charge you on foot. Ring your troops around the roof and you can't ever be charged at all. Also remember that walkers and bikers cannot climb levels.

[thade]

Lot of good advice here, so I'll just add a touch...

 

Getting the charge off is the canonical way to "deny them the charge", but as Shiny Rhino pointed out, any unit that's geared up to assaut you will probably eat your charging unit anyway...unless your unit is also kitted out for assaults. Having an assault squad riding shotgun to back up your tac squad as a counter charge is not a bad idea. That is, if all of the preceding advice has failed you. =)

[Koremu]

Lot of good advice here, so I'll just add a touch...

 

Getting the charge off is the canonical way to "deny them the charge", but as Shiny Rhino pointed out, any unit that's geared up to assaut you will probably eat your charging unit anyway...unless your unit is also kitted out for assaults. Having an assault squad riding shotgun to back up your tac squad as a counter charge is not a bad idea. That is, if all of the preceding advice has failed you. =)

The thing with Assault Squads is that they are generally more mobile (better than Fleet) than enemy CC troops and have impressive short-ranged firepower when equipped with the correct special weapons.

 

One on one (or point for point), most assault specialists are better than an Assault Marine.

 

But Assault Squads shouldn't fight one on one. The best description of how SM Assault Troops work is actually the description of the CSM Raptors. Use them to harry and destroy weak parts of the enemy force.

[Brother Nihm]

Sacrificial units, followed by pie-plates/templates after close combat. It's a bit situational, but quite effective when you pull it off.

[Gamelli Streamfisher]

Get some powerful close range weaponry. Holding something like a vindicator next to a unit you don't want charged will stop and make them think about that Str10 Ap2 pie plate coming their way.

[HERO]

If you can't avoid the assault, prepare to lose the assault so you can shoot them to death afterwards.

[Bannus]

Getting the charge off is the canonical way to "deny them the charge", but as Shiny Rhino pointed out, any unit that's geared up to assaut you will probably eat your charging unit anyway...unless your unit is also kitted out for assaults.

This is one of my tactics. I often equip my Dev Sergeant with a power weapon or fist "just in case" and have suprised some opponents by charging them.

 

One time my opponent sent some Berzerkers against my Dev Squad. At first, I backed them up to keep him out of charge range. He thought I was trying to avoid being charged. Really, I wanted him in charge range of two of my units. He never expected Devastators to charge in on him. I lost a few warm bodies, but the threat was eliminated and the squad continued to provide supressive fire for the rest of the game unmolested.

[Chengar Qordath]

Getting the charge off is the canonical way to "deny them the charge", but as Shiny Rhino pointed out, any unit that's geared up to assaut you will probably eat your charging unit anyway...unless your unit is also kitted out for assaults.

This is one of my tactics. I often equip my Dev Sergeant with a power weapon or fist "just in case" and have suprised some opponents by charging them.

 

One time my opponent sent some Berzerkers against my Dev Squad. At first, I backed them up to keep him out of charge range. He thought I was trying to avoid being charged. Really, I wanted him in charge range of two of my units. He never expected Devastators to charge in on him. I lost a few warm bodies, but the threat was eliminated and the squad continued to provide supressive fire for the rest of the game unmolested.

I've been unpleasantly surprised by that same tactic on a few occasions; denying your opponent a charge bonus and claiming it for yourself can make a big difference in some assaults. This goes doubly so for units with Furious Charge like Berzerkers and Orks; the only thing worse than getting into melee with Orks is getting melee with faster, stronger Orks.

[Grey Mage]

I'm fairly inexperienced when it comes to playing 40k, and in a lot of the posts here on the b and c people give the advice "deny your enemy the charge" or something along those lines. Usually this advice is given when talking about fighting Orks or other assault oriented armies, so my question to you more experienced players is: What can I do as a player to prevent my opponent from being able to charge into close combat with my forces? Is it as simple as keeping your forces 7" away at all times? Are there certain units or character abilities that I can use to prevent this? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

The only sure way. And I do mean the ONLY way you can absolutely gaurantee your opponent wont charge you, is to be the one who charges him.

 

You can try to shoot him... and even if every marine you owned had come with a BFG 9000 you could still roll all 1's to hit and wound.

 

You could try to outrun him, but as a marine there are many faster armies out there... and someone will catch you.

 

You can stay in reserves- but if you never come onto the field youll never be able to win.

 

And it would be 13" away at all times- at the least. 19 for good measure, 20" just in case your opponent is liberal with their movement :rolleyes:.

[StrangeGuy]

Thanks a lot for all the great replies guys. I was able to put some of the advice into practice lastnight vs my friends Necrons, it worked out well even though I ended up getting shot off of my objective.

[chapter master 454]

Thanks a lot for all the great replies guys. I was able to put some of the advice into practice lastnight vs my friends Necrons, it worked out well even though I ended up getting shot off of my objective.

 

Necrons don't charge, they only rapid fire and as a necron player a block of 20 necrons rapid firing can serious hurt anything dispite the gauss nerf (even the group of 30 orks and even a land raider can be humbled by it). What you must remember is what armies are what: necrons own the rapid , tau own the long distance firefights, orks own the 'if we charge just remove unit' assault, guard own the infantry and tank spam, so on and so forth.

 

Against necrons they are a hit and miss on whether to charge or not, if a lord is nearby with a res orb you will find that it doesn't matter how much you put down you'll be stuck for some time trying to escape. Against orks don't even bother charging, just rapid fire because that way you hit on 3+, wound on 4+ and ignore their armour saves instead of 4+/4+/6+, the more numbers in your favour the better. Your only real choice to 'deny a charge' is to more or less let them have it. Take the TFCs or if your on a budget and can't afford a TFC (can't blame anyone there, 35 quid for that? I got my for 25 last year) take dakka devs (devastors with 4 heavy bolters) and fire every turn. To be honest it's all a game of 'can you reach me'. One thing you need to watch out for is the most annoying ork trick of all time: 2 trukks, one with 10 nobs plus big mek with kustom force field and the other with 12 boyz (one ofcourse armed with the ever infamous power klaw) plus two 30 man squads of boyz, all armed with rokkit launchas (maybe more than that but you get the idea). This is win/win for orks: the trukks deliver a painful payload of orks that will distract you long enough for the rest of the boys to close in or: you pop both trukks by a miricle and now the entire ork army marchs forward with a minimum of a 5+ cover save (conga line so 4+ more likely). Be wary of that one, it tends to sting the gunlines worse than anything.

[Commander Sasha]

Don't forget that a unit can't PASS within 1" of an enemy, unless engaging it in combat, so parking an empty transport 2.999" away from another, or 1.999" from a wall creates a barrier.

 

Orks especially can get ruined by 'bottlenecking': each of the 30 Orks may only move 6" each, so if you stand 10" behind a gap between 2 buildings, the first few Orks get 6" through, but then the traffic jam builds, and by the time 10 of them are through the gap, there is simply no more room. All the ones behind just don't end up close enough, then you start in with the rapid fire.

 

I killed a full mob of 30 with a 5 man squad using this tactic. Greenboy fumed!

[chapter master 454]

Don't forget that a unit can't PASS within 1" of an enemy, unless engaging it in combat, so parking an empty transport 2.999" away from another, or 1.999" from a wall creates a barrier.

 

Orks especially can get ruined by 'bottlenecking': each of the 30 Orks may only move 6" each, so if you stand 10" behind a gap between 2 buildings, the first few Orks get 6" through, but then the traffic jam builds, and by the time 10 of them are through the gap, there is simply no more room. All the ones behind just don't end up close enough, then you start in with the rapid fire.

 

I killed a full mob of 30 with a 5 man squad using this tactic. Greenboy fumed!

 

Don't forget tanks are vunerable to the infamous 'art of the hidden power fist', and while ork players would rarely run through that bottle neck thats begging for a flamer or blast template, it is a valid tactic. I mean you could telion the power klaw to death, currently my best way of getting rid of orks: TFC. But my marines are taking a back seat for my imperial guard for the moment so I might just find a better one among the ;) load of tanks I could possible field (manticore looks very tempting)

[Kaldoth]

Also, don't be afraid to buy a few units with pinning abilities. A good example are Space Marine Sniper Scouts.

 

While for orks it's a bit harder to get a pinning result due to the Mob Rule, it's not impossible. For example, a game I played this past weekend. Me versus orks, 1000 pts. I had a ten man tactical marine squad with heavy bolter and plasma gun, and a unit of sniper scouts on a hill behind them with one heavy bolter as well. The ork squad I was going against numbered around 25-30. My marines were equipped with bolters, the sarge with a combi flamer, the plasma gun, and the heavy bolter. So, with rapid fire, I had a possible 21 shots. With orks low armor value, it wasn't hard to bring them down. With all of that shooting, I think I brought down around fifteen orks (though I did lose the plasma gunner to Gets Hot! :tu:). Either way, the orks were sufficiently crippled enough to start firing on with the scouts. With the scout's heavy bolter, I brought down three more. This brought them down to twelve. With the snipers, I brought down another three. This brought them down to nine. Because they suffered a wound from a sniper weapon, and were no longer immune to morale tests, they were pinned there for the rest of the turn. They were then subsequently shot to bits on the next turn.

 

The basic Bolter is actually quite an impressive weapon, and when combined with sniper rifles (or any other pinning weapon), with enough casualties you've got a high chance of neutralizing the threat of being charged. You just have to be careful with your ranges.

 

Another good tactic is to keep a good throw away unit on standby for a counter charge. A unit of un-kitted scouts or assault marines will do this in a pinch. If the enemy gets too close, go ahead and throw your unit into the fray so they are the first to get charged. With the high armor and toughness of Space Marines, you are almost guaranteed at least one more movement phase to re-deploy your main force and lay down some fire for at least one more shooting phase.

 

Cheers,

-Kal

[Grey Mage]

He did roll, and fail, a leadership 9 morale test after that pinning wound right?

[Kaldoth]

He did roll, and fail, a leadership 9 morale test after that pinning wound right?

 

That's not how mob rule works. If an ork unit has more than eleven models, they are fearless. Once dropped below eleven, they use their normal LD value and are no longer immune to morale, leadership, or pinning :devil: The test was taken at LD 7, and yes he did fail.

 

Cheers,

-Kal

[Grey Mage]

He did roll, and fail, a leadership 9 morale test after that pinning wound right?

 

That's not how mob rule works. If an ork unit has more than eleven models, they are fearless. Once dropped below eleven, they use their normal LD value and are no longer immune to morale, leadership, or pinning ;) The test was taken at LD 7, and yes he did fail.

 

Cheers,

-Kal

No, mob rule states that their leadership is equal to the number of boyz in the squad, down to a minimum of 7 and with any number above 10 being fearless.

 

Of course, its an optional choice for the ork player- but Ive yet to meet one who knowingly didnt choose to take the higher leadership value.

 

PG. 31, C:Orks IIRC.

[Kaldoth]

He did roll, and fail, a leadership 9 morale test after that pinning wound right?

 

That's not how mob rule works. If an ork unit has more than eleven models, they are fearless. Once dropped below eleven, they use their normal LD value and are no longer immune to morale, leadership, or pinning ;) The test was taken at LD 7, and yes he did fail.

 

Cheers,

-Kal

No, mob rule states that their leadership is equal to the number of boyz in the squad, down to a minimum of 7 and with any number above 10 being fearless.

 

Of course, its an optional choice for the ork player- but Ive yet to meet one who knowingly didnt choose to take the higher leadership value.

 

PG. 31, C:Orks IIRC.

 

Mmm... just reviewed an Ork Codex. You're right about the substitution of Leadership. Guess I just got lucky with my opponent choosing seven ;) Either way, the leadership issue doesn't really take away from my original point. Pour enough bolter fire into a mob of Boyz and get a wound with a sniper rifle (which is easy enough, as their armor is negated by the AP on the rifle, disincluding 'Ard Boyz), you've got a pretty good shot at pinning them. It's still a viable tactic :)

 

Cheers,

-Kal

[Grey Mage]

Oh, Im not claiming its not Viable, merely that it can be difficult to achieve.