Dark Eldar vs Wolves

[Wolf Lord Beowulf]

Heya there pups and long fangs. Been a loooong time since I posted. However, the new dex is making me itch for another good scrap, but I have one distinct obstacle in my way.

 

My Uncle. He plays the nastiest Dark Eldar army you ever did see.

 

Not sure on the numbers, but he brings close to 10 or more raiders chock full of Wytches, Incubi, some special characters, Helians, and what have you. Usually runs 2000 point games.

 

His usually strat is basically when the game begins, he moves in the raiders close, disembarks, fleets, and his entire army is upon you within turn 1.

 

Turn 1!

 

I've been coming up with some ideas to thwart him, but it's not easy. Even if I decided to Drop Pod on top of his army with some claws or a Vern Dread, he could easily whisk himself away to the other side of the table, and then pelt me as we foot slog back to him.

 

Stopping his raiders is essential to success, but there is quite simply too many of them.

 

What are your opinions about units I should be taking, and what abilities? Haven't play tested the new dex and I don't think I've played a game in like......2 years. (always keep up on the books though)

 

So, any ideas?

[Toasterfree]

it depends on how far his raiders moved in the opening turn, if you set up way back, make him move all out he cant disembark. there for no turn 1 assault. target his transports (iirc HBs should do nicely here). if you have LFs with rzrbacks you should have more then enough punch to knock out two or three of them. flamers and heavy flamers are your friends also. plasma and frag missiles. vindies, and anything that has more then one shot, auto -cannons/assault cannons/heavy bolters.

 

heavy flamers are especially nasty against his transports as theyet+1 to the AP roll (at least they did in 3e do they still in 5e?). yes they are hard to slow down. keep your guys in their cans (mech is another good way to go here) make him pop them, and then get the jump on him. a LRC would be hell for him also. keep it in cover and you have those hurricanes and the twin assault cannon to rain death on him, no need for the melta.

[Wolf Lord Beowulf]

(iirc HBs should do nicely here)

 

Hrrmmmm....I've been away really long. Don't remember what "HB" is short for? (LF I remember).

 

 

Now what about the myriad of Dark Lance shots? He brings a ton.

 

But let me also ask about the tin can idea...basically load up every unit in a vehicle, so that when he gets close, he's forced to spend a turn trying to pop the things open? Wouldn't that be dangerous if he surrounded the vehicle and covered the exit ports? If the thing popped the entire unit would be dead since he has enough troops to surround the things and then some (and he knows to do this, it's one of his favorite tricks)

 

Also, when your vehicle pops, after saves and whatnot, are you able to assault in the same turn, or does it count as disembarking from a closed top vehicle still?

[Vanger]

10 raiders? You playing around 2K then I suppose?

 

Dunno what models you have, but I would take Autocannon Dreads, some ML Long Fangs and a RP with Living Lightning and Tempests Wrath.

 

The dreads, MLs and LL are instrumental in taking out those raiders. If you get a tunr of shooting, those should down half his raiders. The RPs TW power can account for some other crashed Raiders if he tries to come too close to you.

 

Then you should take his charge with GH units, if possible 10 man strong, with standard and a SS equiped Wg for wound allocation.

 

Or you could go a more traditional army just with a lot of Fenrisian Wolves as a screen for your army. Encircle yourself with them, then he has to go through them, probably he will chew through them in his own CC turn, so you will have another full round of shooting (now already at his troops) and then you can counter-charge him.

[Grey Mage]

Id say a good start would be 2 packs of 4xML Longfangs would be a good start. A couple of Dreads- AC+HF would be good... 4x Grey Hunters, probly with Plasmaguns and Powerfists.... and led by a SS wielding WG with WC.

 

For HQ? Njal would be wonderful, but if not... a WL and 2 Rune Priests, each with different powers of course- Stormcaller and that d6 Autocannon shots on one, Living lightning and that autocannon on the other.

 

That should bring you to about 1400-1500pts, at wich point you can decide to take some more GHs, another LF squad, BC bikers... to your tastes.

[Gore Fang]

Your numbers are few as a space wolf. You're tough, mean, and strong. Blades and shard weapons break upon your ceramite and adamantium armor. He needs to come to you for a fight, assuming it's annihilation that is. Corner yourself, backed up by long fangs. Missile launchers will do nicely. Create a defensive line/semi circle around one of the table corners so that he can't get around you or penetrate your lines without a fight. Make it tight enough and his own numbers will work against him. Oh, and ThunderWolves. . . :P His forces will have a very hard time indeed taking them down.

 

Long Fangs are our greatest ally in the fight against Mech Madness. The ability to split fire, inexpensive heavy weapons, and solid accuracy give them great versatility. Rhinos always help too.

[Grey Mage]

Just dont stay to close together... Disentegrators, and that LD testing flamer are horrifying in packed spaces.

 

Thats the catch- close enough to support, far enough a part to not make juicy targets.

[Wolf Lord Beowulf]

Id say a good start would be 2 packs of 4xML Longfangs would be a good start. A couple of Dreads- AC+HF would be good... 4x Grey Hunters, probably with Plasmaguns and Powerfists.... and led by a SS wielding WG with WC.

 

Ok, I need some clarification on the short terms here.

 

Long Fang squad with 4xML? What's ML stand for? (Melta and Las?)

[eyeslikethunder]

Id say a good start would be 2 packs of 4xML Longfangs would be a good start. A couple of Dreads- AC+HF would be good... 4x Grey Hunters, probably with Plasmaguns and Powerfists.... and led by a SS wielding WG with WC.

 

Ok, I need some clarification on the short terms here.

 

Long Fang squad with 4xML? What's ML stand for? (Melta and Las?)

 

 

 

Missile launcher

[Vanger]

Id say a good start would be 2 packs of 4xML Longfangs would be a good start. A couple of Dreads- AC+HF would be good... 4x Grey Hunters, probably with Plasmaguns and Powerfists.... and led by a SS wielding WG with WC.

 

Ok, I need some clarification on the short terms here.

 

Long Fang squad with 4xML? What's ML stand for? (Melta and Las?)

 

ML = Missile Launcher

HF = Heavy Flamer

AC = Autocannon or Assault Cannon (vs Dork Eldar Autocannon everytime)

SS = Storm Shield

WC = Wolf Claw

 

Just to be sure :)

 

Btw Plasmagns and everything that has a 24" range isn't that good as if your opponenet uses Night Shield then you have to substract 6" from your effective range. And he's probably more then 18" away from you before the turn he charges.

 

@Toasterfree:

 

Nope, flamers have no special effect against open toped vehicles anymore (in 4e they caused 2 hits against open toped vehicles)

 

@ Grey Mage:

 

Living Lightning is the D6 Autocannon Power :D

[Wolf Lord Beowulf]

ML = missile launcher

 

Thanks kindly.

 

Alrighty, so there's a plan right there.

 

Two squads of LF with x4 ML each, making a total of 4 Raiders that can be shot at in first round of shooting.

 

If they do their job, I could possibly hold some units in reserve and drop a dreadnaught on the stranded units (via drop pod)

 

GH in a razorback could lay out some support fire to hopefully knock down another raider, plus some heavy support spread throughout the army.

 

Using the idea of staying back, He'll either find a way to get to me anyways, or once seeing the mass fire, force his hand into moving the full distance with his raiders to get the better saves to incoming fire. Keeping his troops from jumping out one turn.

 

Rune priest seems like a great idea too, especially if I bring the Jaws to the table, make a nice line through the raiders.

 

Speaking of which, there's an idea I hadn't thought of. Can you use a psychic power when disembarking from say, a drop pod, or are you only allowed a firing round? ( I know you can't get into CC out of a Space Marine vehicle).

 

If using a psychic power is allowed upon disembarking from say, a drop pod parallel to the line of raiders, could I essentially chop a line straight through his raiders on turn 1 (assuming I get to go first)

[Howling]

Did my ears just fail me??? Did I just hear a wolf brother who feared to fight punny little eldar in close combat? The way of fighting we wolves are masters in???

Seriously....i haven't fought against too many dark eldar until now, but from what I've seen....I'd just say slaughter the fool if he dares to attack you! I guess witches are quite nasty n stuff....but against a full 10 man grey hunter unit in cover maybe with a battleleader or some character in it? with counter attack? Do you really lose to those with that??

 

Also how about some cheap meat shields like fenrisian wolves in advance to your normal troops?

 

Anyways.....I guess I'm too much the straight forward "bring it" type of guy....if my enemy would like to go into close combat with me...I'd pretty much dare him to and pity the fool afterwards...at least that's how it worked most of the times for me ^^

[eyeslikethunder]

Jaws of the world wolf does not work on vehicles and initiative tests aren't that great against eldar. You want the all skimmers count terrain as dangerous power and Living Lightning the D6 str7 unlimited range powers. yes you can use a power after disembarking from a vehicle or even inside if it has a firepoint

[Grey Mage]

Wl Beowulf... why would you ever consider bring Jaws of the World Wolf to a fight against the Dark Eldar? Seriously... an iniative test against the army with the highest average iniative in the game?

 

You gotta be kiddin me.

[Wolf Lord Beowulf]

Did my ears just fail me??? Did I just hear a wolf brother who feared to fight punny little eldar in close combat? The way of fighting we wolves are masters in???

Seriously....i haven't fought against too many dark eldar until now, but from what I've seen....I'd just say slaughter the fool if he dares to attack you! I guess witches are quite nasty n stuff....but against a full 10 man grey hunter unit in cover maybe with a battleleader or some character in it? with counter attack? Do you really lose to those with that??

 

Also how about some cheap meat shields like fenrisian wolves in advance to your normal troops?

 

Anyways.....I guess I'm too much the straight forward "bring it" type of guy....if my enemy would like to go into close combat with me...I'd pretty much dare him to and pity the fool afterwards...at least that's how it worked most of the times for me ^^

 

Ah but see the Wytches have some nasty deceptive tricks up their sleeves. They can literally halve our effectiveness in close combat. The best way to deal with wytches is to blast them from afar. Close combat against them is actually NOT an option you want to partake in.

 

Being in cover would do little, except give me the first turn...but my close combat effectiveness will still be cut. (halves your WS and number of attacks...one or the other...or both. Can't remember)

 

And the Fenrisian wolves are seeming more and more like a really great choice to run alongside the army.

 

Jaws of the world wolf does not work on vehicles and initiative tests aren't that great against eldar. You want the all skimmers count terrain as dangerous power and Living Lightning the D6 str7 unlimited range powers. yes you can use a power after disembarking from a vehicle or even inside if it has a firepoint

Jaws of the world wolf does not work on vehicles and initiative tests aren't that great against eldar. You want the all skimmers count terrain as dangerous power and Living Lightning the D6 str7 unlimited range powers. yes you can use a power after disembarking from a vehicle or even inside if it has a firepoint

 

 

Ah, good point(s)

[rodgers37]

you can kill raiders with Bolters :) plus there open top, just fill drop pods with Grey hunters, with a melta or two, then rapid fire them, and bang, they die..... all you need is 3 or 4 glancing hits, and you can get that with 16 shots...... and then the 2 meltas......

[whitewolfmxc]

Dont eldar have no assualt grenades at all ? stay in cover , thier initiative dont mean anything if they strike at 1

[Oldenhaller]

Bring your Runepriests with Tempest's Wrath...it's kicking against eldar, tau, dark eldar marines and daemons

 

Any skimmer, deepstrike, jump troop or jetbike which end's it's movement within 24" of the runepriest treats the terrain as both difficul and dangerous. That should allow you to pin him well back and then hose with bolter, missile and flamer fire. Rinse, repeat.

 

Additionally if the runepriest is mounted in a rhino then the area measured will be from the rhino's hull meaning it'll cover a good 1/3rd of the board.

 

Many shades of win

 

~O

[antique_nova]

blackmaine and somoe blood claws will wreck his day!

[Hellios]

Dont eldar have no assualt grenades at all ? stay in cover , thier initiative dont mean anything if they strike at 1

 

No they have grenades and if I remember right they can get combat drugs that means they always strike first no exceptions even against things that would normally make others strike first.

 

 

By he sounds of it he plays wych cult. Don't deploy right at the edge of your deployment zone if its possible. I assume he takes Leleith (sp) and at her points why not I would always make her assault move 12 so assume at least one unit can move 32 in a turn although more likely to be around 29 add this to say 12 inch deployment that is why they get up in your grill.

 

Now personally i've never seen hellions as being much of an issue compared to some units deal with them as you must but the wychs you really want to take down bust open those transports now once a transport is down you have two options shoot the unit and if they can make it into combat in his next turn do that or shoot down some more transports and then mop them up in your next turn with shooting (as they haven't yet reached you)

 

Now I don't know the new codex so well but units that would sound good.

 

Long fang units with weapons for taking down raiders (autocannons are good if they can take them but otherwise heavy bolters or missile launchers are what you need) the fact that with split fire you can take down two raiders (up to 6 with three units) is why I suggest these guys.

 

Grey hunters - keep em cheap and just hammer those guys with bolter fire when on foor (although raiders are at risk) plasma guns might be useful for taking out raiders and flamers for making sure infantry dies as DE go first I would take powerfists over power weapons if you take any and you never know you might cause instant death on that lord ^^

 

Blood claws - If you have to go into combat a unit of these with a wolf priest is the way to go although as I said shoot them.

 

Dreadnoughts autocannon - A risk because of the lances however if you can hide them in cover so they can walk out and shoot raiders in the first turn that is good and in combat they will cause the DE all sorts of trouble ;) at least enough one would hope to help your guys win the combat :) or to tie the wychs up :D

[the witch king]

Having run a skimmer heavy list myself for Dark Eldar, I would give the following advice. Kill the dissintigrator armed ravagers ^^ these are going to wipe out a squad a turn if you dont deal with them. After they are down i would start picking off the raiders, the best way to do this is simply to start in order of leathality . Take the lords out first especially if he has incubi with him. Next just work your way through his wyhces raiders. Once these are down the only raiders left should be warriors. With this in mind i would start dealing with the squads that are walking now. shooting up the wyhes and incubii. I would leave the warriors alone on the simple basis that they are a terrible unit against marines and will not be hard to deal with later and wont cause a serious threat to you (unless they are tank hunting).

 

From my experience with the DE list raiders and ravagers fall faster than rain in ireland so it shouldnt be too hard to down them, its really just about target selection. Anyway I hope that helped a bit.

[SJumppanen]

Why is it that nobody has mentioned Wolftooth neclace -yet? You always hit on 3+ so some wych isn't going to prevent them from hitting.

[volfbjorn]

the key is to disable (if possible) the gateways. DE players (at least those who i fought so far ) put grotesques near the gate ways and just waiting for their reserves to arrive . if you have to deal with that kind of strategy Living Lightning is your friend you can wipe them out easily with some luck . if he plays with many Raiders including Archon and his retinue which is the best CC unit in 40k (imo ofc) . try not to go and charge for it . thin his lines 1st . witches also are a dangerous opponent unit . if you can wipe out some dark lances in youe shhoting phase you can lock them up in CC with some dreadnoughts and wipe those unit slowly but with ease . while the rest of your units do the job . it is not ofc so simple as i type it but you can try :) .

[dublindawg]

Bring your Runepriests with Tempest's Wrath...it's kicking against eldar, tau, dark eldar marines and daemons

 

Any skimmer, deepstrike, jump troop or jetbike which end's it's movement within 24" of the runepriest treats the terrain as both difficul and dangerous. That should allow you to pin him well back and then hose with bolter, missile and flamer fire. Rinse, repeat.

 

Additionally if the runepriest is mounted in a rhino then the area measured will be from the rhino's hull meaning it'll cover a good 1/3rd of the board.

 

Many shades of win

 

~O

 

Remember the 24" is not only from the model/rhino, that is the radius. You effectively are giving a 48" pie plate of difficult and dangerous terrain. On a 4x6 table that can cover over 80% of the table should you get the rhino to the center of the table.

[Toasterfree]

i also agree, forgot about tempest wrath, that will wreck his day bad!

 

HB=Heavy Bolter.

 

also i would not bunch up a lot, and keep your tin cans somewhat close to each other so if he does assault them he would have to not wrap around behind you. wolves are not a bad option also to put around them so that he cant even get to them, then you pop out and charge into his pansy t3 butt! flamers! flamers! flamers! of all kinds, plasma guns for the incubi. flamers for witches. MLs for raiders, las for ravagers. dread ACs (either assault or auto) for raiders also. I would say auto and keep it with your troops, and go and and twin arm those. its transport doom! (i know i do it!! its sexy!!) you have to slow him down, living lightning is good for that, s is murderous hurricane for when you pop his transports. keep them slow and whittle them down.