skillmatic Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Wasup guys, I’m building an Iron Warrior CSM army and I had a few questions…. 1)fluff wise how should I arm my Chaos Chosen and Regular Chaos Space Marines…I was think with going more with assault weapons since it was said they are also tenacious fighters as well as siege specialist. Or Heavy Weapons, particularly which ones?? 2) As my heavy choices I’m running 2 vindicators and 3 Oblititrators, you like?…I figured that was ok fluff wise… 3) I wanted to convert a techmarine into a Chaos Lord. Figured the servo-Harness would fit in well with the Iron Warriors tech fluff. Added to that, do you think the servitors with heavy bolters would be frowned upon if used as Havocs?? Saying their bionics gives them the the SM stat line. 4) Terminators…yay or nay…? I was thinking about making them an assault force that Deep Strikes in after the heavy artillery. If so, should they all sport powerfist, or Lightening claws, for the speedy assault... 5)Khorne Berzerkers with, Khorne and IW shoulder pads, painted in an IW color scheme is what I thought would allow them in the army, or I can just paint up Berzerkers in the IW scheme and just say the were augmented with cybernetics to give them the Furious Charge, extra attack, etc...? Those are my questions for now…I should have more later on in the converting process… Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I take it you read Storm of Iron. Chosen are a matter of preference. Considering you have two vindis for blowing things up and 3 walking las cannons I'd say you have plenty of heavy weapons. Which specials do you feel would best help your intended use of the squad? Havocs.. are marines I don't get why you would want to model servitors in their place aside from not having spare models lying around. Maybe if you had a CSM as the sergeant of the squad? That would be kind of cool actually. Terminators are an absolute yes. Do not give them all powerfists as having power weapons on our guys is what makes them in many cases better than codex terminators in assault against non-MC. Reapers, PF, CF, and power weapons should do just fine. Frankly I'm ok with berserkers but the IW are quite capable in this regard so it might not be necessary. Just have a squad of CSM with ccw/bp modelled. I suppose cybernetics could enhance the speed and strength of CC attacks but the power armor already does that in a way so I'm not sure how you would model this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2140492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron-Daemon Forge Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Let have a look & see 1: Assault weapon fit in well with the Iron Warriors since they do assault through the fort after blow the warp out of it. You could have a mix of Specil & heavy Weapons with the Chosen. While normal Chaos Marines it up to yourself. I tend to got with the chaos marine squads, 10 with a Plasma or Melta & a Autocannon mounted in a Rhino 2: A Vindcator & Obliterators are good. Back in the Index Astarties days (it was basicly background & rule specil for that army/chapter) Iron Warriors where the only chaos army allowed Vindcators & they where the first legion to have Obliterators. 3: It is your army, end of the day it is down to what look cool. I say it look cool, even possible convert the Chaos Marines to have there weapon morphie into them like the Servitors, have ton of wire hook into the Chaos Marines & the Heavy Weapon. But if it just Servitor models you should be final as well. 4: You can paint the Khorne Bezerker any colour you want. The red more to do with the World Eater & the blood of there foe. You can have them painted in IW colour if you wish. You can also do the cool Bionic/cybernetics conversion as well to show off the Furious Charge Rememeber it is your army & if you think it is cool, go for it. I'd suggest if your looking for bionic goods have a little look that the Iron Hands set which come with some cool bits to convert into Iron Warriors. IP Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2140505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 1) I remember a bit of fluff where they talked about their Veteran squads going ahead of the main force and causing havoc/disruptiong the enemy's lines. Storm of Iron starts out in this fashion so Chosen seem fitting. Weapon-wise, I think they're most effective as Plasma gun spammers to take out MCs, get side shots on armor or otherwise threaten units while having some range to keep them safe. 2) I think that works just fine, both are fine units. Tactically I'd consider D. Possession for the Vindicator's, its a fluffy choice (IW are often described as having Daemon Engines and Possession really helps you from getting stun locked). 3) I like, I think its unique and fitting. On the tabletop, I think Undivided Daemon Weapon is the way to go. Its fairly cheap and deadly in combat. 4) Terminators seem to fit in very well. With these guys, deep striking and assault tend to be mutually exclusive. If you want to build an assault unit, I'd look into a Land Raider. If you want to build a deep striking squad of Termicide or larger, then aim for Combi-Weapons and Heavy Flamers. My rule of thumb is 1 Fist weapon per 5 guys, thats all you need really. 5) I think you could paint your Berserkers any mix of Iron Warrior and Khorne colors (red/brass) you want. However I don't know if you really need them, as Zeller pointed out CSMs are no slouches in combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2140563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Lord Dred Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 All fantastic ideas except for #5 in my opinion. Dont use berzerkers, to me it would just wreck the rest of the awesome fluff you have going on. Great ideas otherwise though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2140742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castlerook Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Berzerkers fit into the Iron Warriors fluff. Once a breach is made in the diffences, heavy assault troops would be sent into the breach to secure it, and as Berzerkers are nothing if not vicious their perfect for going into the breach. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2140750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Lord Dred Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Theyre also cult troops, which IW dont use. Using Zerkers hurts the integrity of what is otherwise a fantastic fluffy army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2140759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castlerook Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Read Storm of Iron or the Index Astartes article about the Iron Warriors. Iron Warrior berzerkers are fluffy, in this respect their Iron Warriors who have become bloodthristy fighters slowly descending into battle madness. Cult berzerkers are the World Eaters, the entire legion dedicated to Khorne. To put it another way (according to Jervis Johnson); All World Eaters are Berzerkers, but not all Berzerkers are World Eaters Meaning, berzerkers from other Legions exist, and for some legions entirely appropriate (Actually those who know their ancient 40K fluff will know that the Iron Warriors were once vaguely Slaaneshi warriors, but thats another conversation). If a Warsmith wants some berzerkers, send them to the World Eaters with something to trade (ever wonder how a fractured legion is still able to operate effectively?) and get the neural implants embedded (man that new fluff is nauesiating. Point is, its not your army, so let someone have what they want. I mean, its not like Skillmatic is making the army for you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2140849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Pretty fluffy all around. The point that Iron Warriors can't have berzerkers is always funny to me because the fluff has never directly contradicted them using zerks and has actually directly mentioned IW zerks in the novel Storm of Iron and indirectly in the Index Astartes when it specifically compared IW assault troops to World Eaters and even allowed a 0-1 Khorne Berzerkers option in the IW army list. The only reason they weren't in the 3.5 codex is game balance, not fluff. But hey, if you want to use the 3.5 lists as a fluff source than no cult legion can have obliterators or raptors. As for modeling, I actually filed all of the Khorne symbols off of my berzerkers and also removed their bunny ears, making them more "siege breakers" than World Eater nuts, but still pretty berserk. Speaking of slight counts-as IW demonic vehicle possession is actually more often a case of the driver being grafted into his tank, connecting the various control surfaces directly with his brain so he sees through the gunsights instead of his eyes etc. This was mentioned in the Chaos Tank Index Astartes some years ago as well as Storm of Iron. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2140895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Lord Dred Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Point is, its not your army, so let someone have what they want. I mean, its not like Skillmatic is making the army for you. Im tired of reading this garbage everytime there is a fluff debate. Yes, he can do what he wants, as can any other Chaos player. There will always be a way to justify something, as stupid as the reasoning may be. He came on here and is asking for opinions. My opinion is that Zerkers are not fluffy for them. I dont care if you read it in an unofficial book or in fan fiction, it's my opinion. Just like people who try to justify Night Lords with daemons because 1 author decided that they used them at a single point in time. Berzerkers are not a fluffy unit to play under IW. If you notice, the codex lists them as "khorne berzerkers", a cult unit. So I'll stick to my opinion and say no, zerkers are not fluffy, and I dont think he should compromise the awesome theme he has going otherwise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2140910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillmatic Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 I want to thank everyone for replying...even Night Lord! :-D just messing with ya...Anyways on the Berzerker issue, I've been told that Berzerkers in general will work for other Legions if the battle is fierce enough, wanting to give more skulls to Khorne and all. I agree with you also Night Lord that the berzerkers don' seem to fluffy in the army, but I can See IW using them to slaughter anything that moves after the initial siege and heavy weapon bombardment. The main reason I want to use them is because I got 8 of them in my megaforce box! As for the servitors, I was thinking IW capturing Slaves and experimenting on them to create a better meld of man and machine. Those that make it through the process in some capacity are used as Havocs and cannon fodder. I have a chaos lord model i can run as their Aspiring Champion with Bolter and CC weapon. I'm thinking he was giving the "honor" of leading these 'Borgs to battle to prove his worth...I might not use the Havocs for the simple fact, I don't have the Heavy slot... The Chosen will infil, so I'm thinking of Melta's for Tanks and such. Like I said guys, thanks and if you have ideas to improve upon mine they will be appreciated... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2141180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 People aren't saying that Berzerkers don't get used by Legions, they're saying that Iron Warriors don't use Berzerkers. To my knowledge, at least. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2141243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron-Daemon Forge Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 With the issue of the Bezerker & IW background: Bezerker do fit with the IW background/fluff. Storm of Iron being one exsample where a company where heading down this path of Khorne & where use once the walls had been blow up, the other being Index Astartes where the IW had there own list & where allowed a 0-1 Bezerker unit, no other cult unit beside them. Index Astartes allow people back in 3rd Ed to use a bit more specil games & to really show the legion/chapter that there full in term of there skill, White Scar where allowed more bikes for exsample. Then codex 3.5 came out for the Chaos, while Marines had there Traites codex. I belive White Dwarf 256 (UK) is the issue with the Iron Warriors index astartes & as said it has a army list to rep the IW on the battle feild which did include 0-1 Bezerker units. This would be during the time codex Chaos Marine has just came out for 3rd Ed & it was before the 3.5 days. Though however they where not allowed in codex 3.5, no idea why. Now the current codex dose allowed a bit more freedom in some area in term of useing cult units. IP Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2141617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Not to veer severely off topic, but is Storm of Iron a good book? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2142349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Not to veer severely off topic, but is Storm of Iron a good book? Awesome book, one of my favorites to be honest. I think its up there with Lord of the Night for overall Chaos reads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2142380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Chaos_Brute Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Better than most by a certain author :cough OTT Smurf series cough:. Berzerkers? Not only yes, but hell yeah! I run a breachtaker army for my IW (Converted Dread DP, 2 Raiders with zerks, 2 Rhinos with CSM). I love my breachtakers...i Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2142384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Berzerkers?Not only yes, but hell yeah! I run a breachtaker army for my IW (Converted Dread DP, 2 Raiders with zerks, 2 Rhinos with CSM). I love my breachtakers...i Its funny because I say no to the Berserkers. I see nothing that Berserkers can do that I can't duplicate with a mix of Flamer/Melta/Power Fist CSMs. I think of them as my trench troops where as the Plasma squads are the rifle squads to provide covering fire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2142390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I take BL by a grain of salt. That being said, Storm of Iron is perhaps one of their better books. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2142396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Not to veer severely off topic, but is Storm of Iron a good book? Awesome book, one of my favorites to be honest. I think its up there with Lord of the Night for overall Chaos reads. Looks like I'll have to get it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2142401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Chaos_Brute Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Tactically, the berzerkerz do a ridiculous amount of HtH damage-they're troops that act like elites. Fluffwise, what IW lord that needs that fortress taken now isn't going to point a couple LRs filled with frothing assault troops at it? I even have your exact "trench" squads coming right behind them to mop up-the zerks take all the damage and the sane IW are usually untouched. It's just like using cultists to clear minefields or reveal prepaed killzones-the best tool for the job at hand. And I used to love plasma, but it just doesn't cut it in 5th in most cases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2142402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillmatic Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 I have also had couple other ideas while sitting Idle at work... 1)Using SM techmarine as Aspiring Champions in the Chosen units...The Servo Harness can be used a count as for the PF, combi-guns, etc 2)On the topic of Chosen, how do you have them stand out from regular CSM?? I'm going to get the IW conversion kit from GW and have one shoulder pad with the IW insignia and the other one with Undivided pointed star, while my regular IW troops will have just one pad with the IW insignia. good idea? 3)I'm a "cut and paste" converter if you will so all green stuff conversion suggestions are just gonna give me a migraine! But if you have a good idea and can explain it to me, so even a chimp could do it, I'm all for it... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2142571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron-Daemon Forge Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 1)Using SM techmarine as Aspiring Champions in the Chosen units...The Servo Harness can be used a count as for the PF, combi-guns, etc Yep this is cool & a lot people do this for there Chaos Lord/model here & there. You might also want to check out the Raven Wing spure for the Techmarine helmet there & the shoulder pad for more conversion idea. 2)On the topic of Chosen, how do you have them stand out from regular CSM?? I'm going to get the IW conversion kit from GW and have one shoulder pad with the IW insignia and the other one with Undivided pointed star, while my regular IW troops will have just one pad with the IW insignia. good idea? Could model them to have the Bolter in one hand & close combat weapon in the other. While your normal trooper keep the Bolter in both hands. I'd also add some more trophies. I'd also look that the Iron Hands Space Marine box set as they offer some Bionic bits which could make the Chosen stand out even more. 3)I'm a "cut and paste" converter if you will so all green stuff conversion suggestions are just gonna give me a migraine! But if you have a good idea and can explain it to me, so even a chimp could do it, I'm all for it... As said there the Iron Hands box set offer some good bits with the Bionics http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/...otCatGameStyle= As for other conversion I'd have a look around the fourm, mainly the painting area useing the search button. There been some nice Iron Warriors & chaos armies in general, this being one of them Some big, angry Chaos Marines My own Iron Warriors 5th Grand Company Teethgrinder from these fourm Bezerker These are just a small exsample. Also if you got some old White Dwarfs, Christain Bryne did a article called Will of Iron which show how he went about collecting a small IW force with some nice conversion & little to no green stuff work which is good :D Or there his Black Legion to get the odd idea here & there. IP Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2142625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillmatic Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 Thanks everyone, especially Insane! I'm getting everything I wanna do down and planned out, and I'll be in and out of the forums asking questions, but ALL of the help I've received has been appreciated... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2143705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronWinds Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 1)Using SM techmarine as Aspiring Champions in the Chosen units...The Servo Harness can be used a count as for the PF, combi-guns, etc Power Fist and combi gun you say? Go to GW's website, look at Chaos HQs. Find the IW warsmith model. I don't think he is scary enough to be a full warsmith, but I use various parts of that model for all my champions. Has a combi-melta, power fist, and servo arm. 2)On the topic of Chosen, how do you have them stand out from regular CSM?? I'm going to get the IW conversion kit from GW and have one shoulder pad with the IW insignia and the other one with Undivided pointed star, while my regular IW troops will have just one pad with the IW insignia. good idea? Sounds good, and like IP said IH bits are good. Something I do on occasion since I have a necron army is mix in those bits. I'm not going to go find his pic right now, but stick around long enough and you'll see my bionic spider prince that I made with IW and necron bits. The IH bionic legs are my favorite of the IH bits. 3)I'm a "cut and paste" converter if you will so all green stuff conversion suggestions are just gonna give me a migraine! But if you have a good idea and can explain it to me, so even a chimp could do it, I'm all for it... IW warsmith model, buy a few. His arms and servo arm easily swap with other chaos marines, so I'll normally spread a warsmith's various 'parts' all throughout a squad. I wish they made his helmet by itself, that is the best helmet I've ever seen. Get IW heads as well, if you can get them by themselves they are better for modeling IWs than anything else. There are a lot of conversions on the site in me and IP's signatures if you want to see even more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2143783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 too bad your link doesn't work Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180777-iron-warriors-army/#findComment-2143791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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