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War of Faith (LF5)


Brother Tyler

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WAR OF FAITH

Large Formation

 

POINTS: 150 + MODELS

 

A War of Faith is by command of the Ecclesiarch alone and primarily concerns only the members of he Adeptus Ministorum. When a War of faith is announced, the Ecclesiarch will announce the objectives of the war and declaim the heretical, godless targets of the Emperor's vengeance. Wars of Faith are funded and organised by the Ecclesiarchy and contains only warriors from the Adeptus Sororitas led by members of the Frateris Clergy. True Wars of Faith the Ecclesiarchy prepares to battle an enemy for the sake of its beliefs rather than to quell a rebellion or occupy an alien-held world. Wars of Faith can be conducted against factions within the Ecclesiarchy who have been deemed heretics, or may take the form of punitive attacks against alien races.

 

FORMATION:

Army must contain at least 100 Sisters

 

Must be led by a Canoness with Celestian command squad containing Scared Banner of the Orders Militant (may take an Immolator, a Rhino, or Repressor transport)

1 Priest (to a maximum of 5)

0+ Celestian Squads (may take an Immolator, a Rhino, or a Repressor transport)

0-1 Repentias

6+ Sister of Battle squads( may take a Rhino or a Repressor transport)

2+ Seraphim squad

2+ Retributors squad (may take a Rhino or a Repressor transport)

0+ Dominions squad (must be transported in an Immolator, a Rhino or a Repressor transport)

 

SPECIAL RULES:

 

All models (except Repentias) considered Faithful even with the loss of a Faithful character.

 

All units (except Repentias) have preferred enemy Universal special rule while in No Man's Land or enemy deployment zone (Celestians must choose either Holy Hatred or preferred enemy- per round not both).

 

Strategic assets: Holy War and Trophy Kill

 

DESIGNER’S NOTES: I have been playing 40k since May 1997 starting with Space Marines and then purchased the Sister of Battle starter army in Oct. of 1997. Over the years I have sold and played many different Space Marine armies but I have always come back to my Sisters of Battle army. From Second Edition to the current Fifth edition I have noticed that after the splash release GW seems to ignore Sisters of Battle. In Codex: Cityfight/Codex: Cities of Death armies got special rules but not sisters; Apocalypse nothing; Apocalypse Redux one strategic asset; and Planetstrike nothing again.

 

Name: something unique to the sisters.

 

Points: I felt that keeping the sisters 2/3 the price of Battle Company was fitting for the sisters since sisters usually average 2/3 the points of Marines.

 

Formation: the ability to field more than 100 sisters to show that task at hand was of vital importance and be closer to a Commandery than a mission.

 

The canoness having the command squad with the Scared Banner of the Order Militant was to show who was purging the Witch, the Heretic, and the Mutants.

 

1 Priest was a must due to the fluff from the original codex stating Wars of Faith are funded and organised by the Ecclesiarchy and contains only warriors from the Adepta Sororitas led by members of the Frateris Clergy.

 

The mandatory 6 Sister of Battle Squads, 2 seraphim, 2 Retributors is a comparison to a Space Marine Battle Company but with the additional units (Celestians, Repentias , Dominions, and additional mandatory units) to make it fit with the fluff from Sisters of Battle sources and the BL novel Faith & Fire.

 

Special Rules: I did not want to change stats or making them to over powerful. I wanted to make all units remain faithful due to fact that they are fighting a war against the Heretic, the Witch, and the Mutant. And that is why I felt that should also have the Preferred Enemy rule while in no man's land and the enemy deployment zone because the army is taking the fight to them not sitting back and playing defense.

 

Repentias were left out of the special rules as faithful Repentias did not fit their fluff and really Preferred Enemy Eviscerators....not a good idea

 

Celestians are not the best melee fighters so a decision must be made between holy hatred or Preferred enemy

 

Assets: Holy war was a given as it is a Sister only asset and Trophy Kill representing the Leader of the Mutants, the Heretics, and The Witches.

 

Please discuss this datasheet by replying in this topic.

 

If you have any questions about the process, please refer to this discussion.

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Im not sure about the lack of requiring Retributors, and the lack of minimum squad sizes... but I can really dig this formation. I like the large numbers that mesh well with the fluff, and I like the selection of strategic assets- it works with the formation, but isnt overpowering.
  • 2 weeks later...

JUDGES’ COMMENTS:

 

Bannus:

BALANCE: Above Average. The formation requires only a large number of models for its requirement - with no real restrictions imposed. That combined with applying USRs (although the restrictions help) hurt the balance of this formation. Given its liberal composition, I think it would be better if the advantages were more limited in return.

 

USABILITY: Good. A small stretch to field compared to a normal 40K army - no more so than a Battle Company makes it fairly user-friendly.

 

ADHERENCE TO THE BACKGROUND MATERIAL: Excellent. A good adaptation of an existing idea with a good Sisters "spin".

 

Corpse.:

This one is to the point. It sort of stems from someone who seems to feel faith points need working with and put into action for the force on a larger scale I like this one and for a fair scale I almost hate to think they will face a titan. Again, it’s one that’s not over the top so it gets the following.

 

Fairness is outstanding; Usability outstanding. It’s easy since it stems from a larger basic Sisters of Battle force, Adherence is outstanding.

 

Gillyfish:

Above Average. Not sure the balance is quite right in terms of potency vs. points.

 

Honda:

Good. We need to be very careful of this formation. With all those units, the Sisters would get tons of Faith points and that would make them extremely brutal. I play against Sisters on a regular basis and someone who knows how to use their strengths can cut though most armies like a hot knife through butter - just brutal. So I am concerned about the balance of this formation. So probably there should be a limit on Faith points (i.e. max 10-12, based on formations taken).

 

Also, Sisters are Ordo Hereticus. I would recommend that they get the Preferred Enemy against armies with psykers, Daemon hosts, or anti-Imperial creed (i.e. Chaos, Daemons). I would just make this rule universal across the board, not tied to table geography. That's fiddly, especially since the boundaries for No Man's Land and the opponent's deployment zone go away in the first turn.

 

JamesI:

Outstanding. I like this one. Its balanced and well thought out. I’d like to see a limit on the number of units allowed, such as 0-2 Celestians.

thank you judges for all the comments and you brought up some good points I personally did not think of when I wrote the formation which was very quickly after the contest was announced.

 

Honda- I really like the idea of just using the Perferred Enemy USR as you had listed. It has a better feel for purging the witch, the mutant and the heretic. So any squads containing psykers, mutants (including ratlings, ogryns, and deamon hosts) and heretics (models alligned with chaos) models will gain perferred enemy witch, heretic, mutant across the board (Bannus-do you feel this is more limiting in return compared to as previously written)

 

on faith points having a max points considering the formation at base generates 13. I feel 15 may be a good max but I am torn on the idea as I personal could field using the formation 3 hq (canoness retinue), 3 elites (celestians) 6 troops, 2 seraphim, 4 for dominions, 2 for retributors for a total of 18 faith points plus the additional ones for just playing apocalypse (more hqs for an additional 7 faith)

 

JamesI- I agree that it should limit the celestians but to a 0-3 as a limit

 

Corpse- I fought a Eldar Revenant Titan in an Apocalypse game last year with one unit and in the turn I charged I lost every model to it going nuke but hitting it with 12 repentias plus a mistress led by a priest with an eviscerator made very very short work of it. Now if I had to run across the board instead of fighting it in my deployment zone the tactic may have not worked.

The two things that I think are problematic with this datasheet are making all Sisters units Faithful and the Preferred Enemy rule. This datasheet presents the Adepta Sororitas equivalent to a Space Marine Battle Company, and it should have been crafted in a similar manner. The benefits/special rules should really be driven by the synergy of having a certain combination of units together, and should be crafted more towards strategic assets instead of potency in combat. As it is, the impression I get is that the special rules were developed in an effort to make the Sisters more potent in assault (in general, there are Acts of Faith that drive more towards other things). I'd replace both of these benefits with something more appropriate in the realm of strategic assets. To be honest, the two that are currently assigned might be sufficient in and of themselves (i.e., with no additional benefits). I'd really exchange one of them (it doesn't matter which) for a strategic assets like Careful Planning or Supreme Headquarters or something along those lines.

 

While I would personally prefer a more fixed composition (possibly calling it a "Priory" or other appropriate unit name and fixing the composition appropriately), I can live with the flexible formation. However, the Battle Company derives its benefits from the synergy of having a specific composition of units. If this comparable Sisters of Battle unit were to be fixed in a similar manner (not necessarily comparable in size or the actual units, but just as rigid in its composition), it might enjoy a similar level of potency (benefits) at a comparable cost. The more flexible the Sisters of Battle unit is, though, the more costly it becomes. It must have either less in the way of potency, more in the way of cost, or a combination of both to achieve balance.

Brother Tyler- I was talking to a friend today about the data sheet and he also was echoing the same comments about the the flex army. I feel that the celestians and dominions should be a 0-3 option each and I would leave the repentias 0-1 and change the squads from 6+ battle sisters and 2+ seraphim /retributors to just a fixed number 6 battle sisters and 2 for retributors and seraphim.

 

I don't feel that sisters should be in close combat but being a short ranged army and wanting to close the range for the formation it was hard to chose things to help. The assests you listed don't keep with the idea nor does the perferred enemy USR or as I listed in the previous post changing it to Mutants, witches, and heretics might help but i almost would feel dropping PE totally but keeping HOLY WAR and TROPHY KILL keeps the formation closer to the idea I was going for.

and I agree, Banus that is what makes this formation so hard to change and modify.

 

With the SM company Formation it is 106 models that are combat flexible as marines have always been but when in comes to sisters melee and long range are almost nil. I know most sister of battle players perfer the highly mobile rhino borne armies, or immy spam lists, me not so much I like fielding my models on foot. I want the list to be fair to all sister of battle players but fair to the opponent. I know by disallowing more seraphim, retributors, and normal squads it constricts to a core number of models (min # of 80) plus command section and HQ (which at min is 6 models) plus the priest which allows for 13 models in the choices to reach a 100. I am not really for sure if the celestians or the dominions should have min of 0 or 1 like your are suggesting. I know they should have a max of 2 or 3.

 

I need more suggestions for my final decision......

It should be noted that if this is in fact supposed to represent a Commandery, let alone a precept, it should be noted that a large number of sisters is basicly mandatory. Thus, the larger number of units seems appropriate.

 

While I can understand the wish to keep it similar to say a battle company, wich I understand was its inspiration in a way, their are a number of fluff differences. Evern at max squads, 6 Sisters, 2 seraphim, 2 celestions and 1 repentia is only around 170 sisters... and leaves no options for things like retributors, etc.

 

I think its quite fluffy as it is, and that more options will allow a wider range of use and therefore, fun.

 

And thats the point right?

 

That being said, if you wish to put a cap on the units it is your datasheet, and I wouldnt be opposed to seeing 0-2 or -3 on the optional units, and some cap on the others. Another option you might consider is stating that you may only take X number of optional units in the formation, wich would limit its size.

 

Frankly though, with the cost of even a single sisters unit I think that cash will be the largest limiter on this formation, no matter what you decide.

That's absolutely true. There are distinct differences between the rigid composition of a Space Marine Battle Company and the variable composition of a Sisters of Battle Commandery. The trade off for enhanced flexibility then becomes either reduced special rules, increased cost for the formation, or a combination of both. My suggestion was fairly open in that, and the final result should really be a fair representation of the background. I'm not necessarily advocating a completely rigid commandery.

I would suggest an increase in the cost, and streamlining the preferred enemy special rule.

 

As it is the formation grants 2 special rules and 2 strategic assets. They are good rules, IMHO, and not over the top for apocalypse. Perhaps adding another 100pts to the formation, and putting a cap on each of the units, save perhaps basic sister squads, would be best.

 

War009 however has kicked butt on this, so Id like to hear more of their thoughts on this.

thank you Grey Mage for the kinda words, I loved your data sheet and was suprised to you did not win, for the large formation.

 

I have been tinkering in my head and thinking about the formation and trying to decide the next course of action over the day at work and at home before getting online tonight. I took a long look at my sisters due to lack of sleep and trying to rearrange my room in a hurry i opened the case and dumped the models on the floor, a full big gw case full of sisters laying in a pile that had to be picked up.... and then it hit me.

 

1 hq with retinue, 6 sister squads, 2 seraphim, 2 retributors, 1 priest (remember up to 5 still = 1) and 0 for repentias, celestians, dominons. For each additonal unit added of battle sister squad, seraphim, retributors, and dominons the cost of the formation goes up by 15 points and 10pts for celestians (they are faithful already), no cost for the max 1 repentia squad as they do not benefit from formation special rules.

 

for maxing unit sizes I would say HQ (included retinue) 1 , Priest 1 (but remember allowed up to 5 for the 1 slot), Sister squads 8, Seraphim, retributors, celestians, and dominions 3, repentias 1,

 

also changing the USR Perferred Enemy to- Any squads containing psykers, mutants (including ratlings, ogryns, and deamon hosts etc.) and heretics (models alligned with chaos) models will gain perferred enemy witch, heretic, mutant across the board. We shall call it Purge the Witch, Kill the Mutant, Burn the Heretic rule

Prefered enemy can be a very powerful advantage for units with lower cost/model and lower WS. That has to be factored in to keep this balanced.

 

Personally, I would avoid applying USR's to whole formations and follow the pattern set by the other datasheets: access to additional assets.

Hrmm... it just doesnt seem as streamlined- by some peoples definitions, SMs are mutants, and most chaos marines would be.....

 

You could always say that they have "Divine Rage"....

 

Divine Rage: When a Soritas Convent goes to war the faith and fury of their fellow sisters galvanizes them into a well tempered blade, and in the hands of the emperors will they will surely strike down the mightiest of foes. To show this any Faithful unit in the formation may at any time spend a faith point to gain the Prefered Enemy universal special rule, affecting all units from the codex of the players choice. If they should assault and destroy an enemy unit from that codex that same turn, they may take a leadership test to successfully regain a faith point as their faith in the emperors might is confirmed.

but the problem with the strategic assets is they do not fit the fluff for Sisters of Battle and then by toning down PE to only include squads with a witch, mutant, or a heretic solves the problem except for Chaos but it is Chaos.

What's wrong with Holy War? And there are three other strategic assets in the Apocalypse Rulebook that would seem wholly appropriate to such a large formation of Sisters being led by their canoness (Careful Planning, Hold At All Costs, Supreme Headquarters. And there are a few others that also work well. They just don't make the Sisters more potent in assault, which is looking more and more like the goal of the special rules as proposed.

 

I don't think you really need to represent the Sisters' holy faith or hatred for mutants, heretics, and psykers. They already have rules in their codex that cover those aspects sufficiently. What you really need to show is the synergy of using a unit of this size.

 

And drawing upon the description for them in the Apocalypse Rulebook, we have the following:

Also known as the Sisters of Battle, the Militant Orders of the Adepta Sororitas are the fighting arm of the Ecclesiarchy, the great church that unites Mankind in the worship of the Emperor upon the Golden Throne. The Sisters of Battle are often found fighting alongside other forces of the Imperium, and their faith is such that few can look upon them, or fight beside them, and doubt that the Emperor is with them.
Perhaps it would be good to represent that impact upon the allies of the Sisters instead of just trying to make the Sisters better. Shooting from the hip (so these might be off a bit), this might be something like allowing allied units within 6" of Faithful Sisters units to benefit from certain Acts of Faith, or allowing allied units within 6" of Faithful Sisters to re-roll failed Morale checks, or something along those lines.

 

Speaking of size, while the actual composition might remain flexible, the lower/upper ends need to be more fixed, going more in line with the structure of an order as described on page 11 of the codex. A reasonably sized formation would be a Mission or Commandery (up to 200 Battle Sisters). Going for a full Preceptory is way too large and goes beyond what would be usable to most players. I'd suggest sticking to the Mission, and topping it out around 100 models, though I'm not averse to a Commandery that tops out at 200 models (but it should then be larger than 100 models per the minimum requirements in the formation).

 

Ultimately, it's up to you how you change this datasheet. I just think that you've pre-determined your objective and are ignoring the precedent of other similar datasheets. To me, this undermines the potential of the datasheet.

I personally like Holy War and Trophy Kill as most of the assets I just feel the others don't fit the fluff for Sisters

 

Supreme HQ I feel will make the Sister players bunker down in their deployment are as the models with 12" of marker to gain a lot of special rules- Counter-Attack, Fearless, Night Vision/ Acute Senses, and Tank Hunters which negates Holy War and if combined due to some strategic deployment of the marker the units could gain Rage and Relentless (due to Holy War on top of the ones for Supreme HQ

 

Careful Planning could work but something about it does not sit right with me

 

Hold at all Costs ok this works combined with Holy War and Trophy Kill ...since it will only work on all models in the formation except Sister of Battle squads as they are scoring unitl all models are dead.

 

I while I like the Special Rule Perferred Enemy, I am not married to the idea that it must be in the formation. No matter what is said or how it is streamlined it will not work. This special rule is causing a lot of problems and as you have said Brother Tyler they do have a lot of rules talking about their hatred of the witch, mutant, and heretic. I know see what Bannus was talking about USR. So it should be dropped out of the formation and exchanged for Strategic Asset Hold At All Cost

 

I don't know where the idea that this formation was to represent a Preceptory. I wanted to represent a Commandary as like you said up to 200 models, considering a standard 40k game for Sisters is a Mission according to the structure on page 11 of the codex.

 

So this is where start working on number of each type of squad for the formation and additional point costs. 1 hq with retinue, 6 sister squads, 2 seraphim, 2 retributors, 1 priest (remember up to 5 still = 1) and 0 for repentias, celestians, dominons as the min

 

for maxing unit sizes I would say HQ (included retinue) =1 , Priest =1 (but remember allowed up to 5 for the 1 slot), Sister squads =8, Seraphim, retributors, celestians, and dominions= 3, repentias =1

 

For each additonal unit added of battle sister squad, seraphim, retributors, and dominons the cost of the formation goes up by 15 points and 10pts for celestians (they are faithful already), no cost for the max 1 repentia squad as they do not benefit from formation special rules.

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