Footslogging armies to beat the meta-game

[Brother Gaius]

I've been a non-mech Marine player for more years than I care to remember, and in my experience, it doesn't do that bad. 5th did help foot in some ways, with combat squadding and running among other things. Mind you, I am a fan of Dreads and Typhoons, but I am still a footslogging army. Drop pods are a godsend, but even without them it's easily doable. It's about using your numbers and sticking to a battle plan. You have to have a battle plan that is flexible, and that takes advantage of your strenghts, while being able to exploit your opponents weakneses. The Thunderfire is probably one of the most overlooked weapons in the Marine 'dex, I think. Between a MOTF w CB, a TF and combat squads you can have alot of reliable AT and anti-horde on a budget. My Marine tac's on foot run about 200 each, MOTF 120+ his 4 servitors, and the TF at a cool 100 leaves you points for all the AT goodness to make those transports smoking wrecks in the first two turns. You also have to remember standard boards are 4ft across, you can deploy 12' in on most games, or more for some! If you divide your army correctly, the elements with reach out and touch you laying down fire for the shorter range elements to march, you can create an ever-shrinking dead zone. Dreads are the ultimate heavy weapons platforms for the Footsloggers, having armor, mobility and flexibility. Typhoons work wonders for bringing the guns you need, at a cheap price (about 3 rhinos = 1 Typhoon w change!)

 

I am going to be inflicting a 2k Foot army on one of my friends on Wed, (MOTF w CB, 2 Ironclad, 2 VD w ASSC/ML and dread w TLLC/ML, 2 Typhoon 1 Speeder w 2xMM, 3 10 man tacs w toys) and I expect to do rather well. The IC will advance w my combat squads while the other half lays down support fire. If he is mechanized, its actually a good thing for me, since I will be throwing BS5 Kraks, CB's at his tanks and TLLC/ML at BS4 for the 'lower priority' targets. The TF will be a nuisance, pounding his emplaced HW teams or using Tremor rounds to slow things up (gotta love making vehicles roll dangerous terrain, 1-6 chance of fun!) Land Raiders happen to be my favorite target for the CB, because they are so large its easy to get a good hit on them.

[mowglie]

There's playing the metagame, and then there's playing against your strengths. You can already get over 50 PA guys in rhinos in 1500. Even if your opponent is well equipped to handle your transports, where's the sense in dropping those rhinos for another 10 guys?

 

I mean, obviously it depends how extreme your metagame is, but generally speaking, antitank fire is also good against footslogging MEQ. By ignoring your transport options, you're additionally opening up a vulnerability to S3/S4 fire which is almost certain to offset the extra bodies.

 

The only exception is when your opponent is fielding an extreme quantity of anti-transport fire (S7/AV4) e.g. 6x Rifle Dred. If your opponent is playing basically nothing but high S weapons with AV4 or worse, maybe then you'd get more survivability out of a few extra bodies than out of our transports.

 

Even then I wouldn't want to give up the early-game mobility.

 

If you're doing something special (shrike/scout/hammertime) then go ahead, but I don't think simply taking a rhino swarm list and swapping the rhinos for more mans will help in general.

[Fatuous]

(quick off topic: Am loving the bolter and chain sword forums, some really good discussion here on this).

 

Few points. 90 guys on a standard table are not a problem to field, and hide in cover. After playing as a IG player with close to 100 troops, plus several tanks, it really is not that hard to get half your guys in area terrain for cover if you need to. If combat squaded, it is even easier, as u only need 3 guys in the terrain piece to get you that important save. So you can quite easily do this and maintain a dispersed coherency to avoid mass casualties from templates. If it really is a problem, you can always reserve a unit or 2.

 

I've ony played a couple of games so far and don't own a single rhino (love em, but too samey to my guard list, and I wanted more dreads). So far, I've not been doing too badly, and not lost a game, but you do have to change your way of thinking, and get past the idea of swopping out rhinos for more troops, as it generally is not that case.

 

What can you buy for your 140ish points savings on not taking 4 rhinos?

 

A scout squad. Whoopeee you might say, but that is a scoring unit, that can inf, scout, outflank, or a combination. You can go CC scouts, and infiltrate, and scout so close to their lines, they HAVE to do something about them. Loss of a few scouts, gain of fire taken off your guys on turn 1, by whch point that can be on the half way line, or certainly will be nearing it. OR that is 10 sniper scouts, set up to speed bump, or detract offensive units coming your way (or take camo cloaks, and put them in bolstered terrain).

 

Do the same, but take 4 scouts and a LSS. Same basic principle, but you can easily get the first turn charge on (if you go first, on non moved heavy tanks, or in to squishy heavy weapon teams).

 

Attack bikes or regular speeders. You can pack in at least 2 for 4 rhinos.

 

Another dreadnaught. Don't really think I need go further with this, another dread hot footing towards your lines is scary. Move, pop smoke and run (I do make the assumption that this is legal).

 

Assault squad, ok, not a full one, but is disruptive, and will take fire off your troops.

 

Sternguard. You can take a stern guard squad, plus some upgrades, adding to your heavy hitters.

 

Hell, you could add another captain if you really wanted to, or a command squad, or a TF cannon as mentioned above (I had forgotten the option for a BS5 conversion beamer, which could also be a swop out).

 

Or why not 2 Preadators? no? ok, a Vindicator? no, ok, lets be a bit more flexible....... a pred AND a whirl wind...........

 

This might be moving away from pure foot slogger, but is a change away from transported mech lists.

 

The options really are much more than, 'Well I can afford 5 more tac marines'. You already have your tac marines in your list, so you don't swop out tranpsorts for more of the same. I guess where I'm going with this, you have to rethink your list, and rethink your play style to stand a chance of making it work. You can't swop out all transports and adding a weak troop choice and say it won't work, look here's the evidence. The play stlye (and army build) has to adapt to encompass the change.

 

Here's a brief list I use (i am still playing with it as i finish off units, my LSS still awaits building). Feel free to say, we'll i'd take x, y and z to counter it. but bear in mind you won't know what you are facing, and I just told you my basic stratergy.

 

MOF

2 10 man tac squads (PW in 1, PF+ CF in the other)

1 10 man scout squad (PF and CM)

2 MM CCW dreads with HF, 1 in a drop pod (this is how i play it currently, so will admit not 100% foot slogger/non mech as yet)

5 Terminators with Cyclone ML

5 Assualt terminators (3 TH/SS, 2 LC still deciding on balance).

5 Stern guard

 

The CC termies to date have charged across the table and in to cc T2 or T3 latest, still no slower than DSings best time. in support of those are the stern guard and regular termie squads, gaining covers saves if need be from the CC termies. Oh, and the dreads of course. lets assume no pods for now (be true foot slogger) so add 2 dreads to that core pushing forwards.

 

What do you do????? A dread on each flank (of the core thrust, not the table) nearing the mid table mark end of turn 1 (assuming not DOW), with 5 CC termies that run, and regular termies walking behind if needed, firing all the way in.

 

Send in your CC specialists to engage them? Yes that will work well, but I doubt you'll kill them all in 1 turn, meaning your expensive uber killy unit is locked ready for the reg termies to assualt them next turn, not getting hit back, and certainly causing a huge dent in what ever the CC termies left behind.

 

the Tac squads can move up behind them if needed, or be reserved till the heavy hitters in the list (practically everything else) take some of the heat away. And of course the scouts can be up close threatening units from before the begining of turn 1. Even on a full board where you can just get 6 inches out the DZ, you can still scout to mid table, and be in pistol/shotgun range to hit a unit before assualting them next turn.......

 

Yes this list lacks mobility (hence the pod and LSS in the making, and I really want more dreads), but thus far it has not been a huge problem, as long as you play aggressively. You only ever need to hold 1 objective, as long as you contest them all!

 

I've not been playing marines all that long, and wanted to avoid the ever so popular rhino and razro backs (they are awesome, and I would like some, but th epoint of my marine army was something different [than my guard lists], so am avoiding tanks of any kind.

 

Will this work out in the long run? I honestly do not know, but so far, in the games I've played, 10 terminators, with 2 dreads charging head long at them seems to have worked.

[Fatuous]

ok, so the post was specifically foot sloggin based, so a couple of provisos.

 

For pure foot slogging, you are pretty limited to scout squads or long ranged fire power to take down enemy armour, but a conversion beamer would do ok, and the scouts would prob still be my preference. You can still take 2 ful tac squads, and 5 small scout squads with tooled up sarges.

 

Or adding in some sternguard.

 

I guess the main point, which was raised above, is are you trading in what we;re good at, to try to fill a niche that maybe marines can't do quite as well (like trying a CC guard list, it's doable, but plays against guards strengths).

 

Rhinos are so CHEAP, and add so much, from mobility, protection (both direct and indirect thru LOS and assualt blocking) and gives you those late game objective contesters...... that perhaps not taking them is a serious mistake. But flip side, they fill out your list with easy kill points.

 

Unsuprisingly it looks like balance (as always) beats ridgid extreme lists like foot slogging, pure mech or pure podding..............

[Giga]

There's one guy at my LGS that usually plays footslogging ultramarines. Normally has a bunch of assault marines, shooty terminators, assault terminators, a dual LC captain, tacticals, devastators, a command squad, and sometimes even scouts, all footslogging and sometimes supported by a lascannon predator.

 

Occasionally, he actually wins a battle or two. I have no clue how he gets those wins, but he does. I myself never lost to him (never even got close).

[DevianID]

I have had success with a footslogging force at 1500 points, and at 1850 I only have 2 las/plaz razorbacks.

 

For me, what makes a footslogging marine army work is not bodies, but tactical terminators. The 2 10 man tac squads are just there because you need 2 troop units but want up to 4 scoring units. 4 5 man Sniper/Missile scouts would also work to save some points.

 

1500 list

Pedro

Libby with null zone plus utility power of choice

10 termies, 2 cyclones

2 ven dreads with MM and storm bolter, extra armor

2x10 tac squads with pfists, 1 with las cannon

 

Idea here is to almost always combat squad the tac squads. The heavy weapon 5 man squads stay way back in cover taking shots of opportunity, while the 2 5 man pfist squads stay in the middle of the board to threaten late game objectives. The termies and dreads and 2 characters do all the leg work. Pedro's bombardment can be golden, null zone wins some games for you, and 10 termies with +1 attack from pedro are quite good at killing almost anything in the game. Ven dreds dont die easy, meaning you can threaten the enemy with them to draw heavy weapons fire, and save your small scoring units some grief. This list is not the best 1500 marine list by far, but its main elements are fluid--Way of the Water Warrior from silent requiem sheds some light on how to use the dreds and termies. If you had to improve this list, you most likely would add 2 las/plas razorbacks in place of pedro kantor for your tac squads, but I like Pedro so I vote for him lol.

[Velkairiwyth]

At my local GW there is only one other mecharine player, the rest put their troops on the table, and maybe take a single transport to move a unit out. I was actually greeted with Jaws hitting floor when in a 1500 point list I placed on the table:

 

3 Razorbacks

Landraider

2 Predators

Dreadnought

Landspeeder

 

and 0 troops (all mounted)

 

This was the first time Ive used a landraider or I would have had another predator or a vindicator aswell as another speeder and dreadnought.

 

That game resulted in a tie when it should have been a walkover...

 

He was Eldar - and I sent ALL my troops on the advance in a base-capture missions. sigh. All I needed to do was hold mine and kill 5 guardians in cover on the other side of the board to win :P

 

This player had just come off beating the other mech army (space wolves with 3 rhinos of troops and a vindicator, plus the wolf riding fella which every space wolf player was fielding...)

[thade]

At my local GW there is only one other mecharine player, the rest put their troops on the table, and maybe take a single transport to move a unit out. I was actually greeted with Jaws hitting floor when in a 1500 point list I placed on the table:

 

3 Razorbacks

Landraider

2 Predators

Dreadnought

Landspeeder

 

and 0 troops (all mounted)

 

...

 

Zero troop choices? Typo? @_@ This list is illegal otherwise.

[Justicar Valius]

He's talking about what he plonked down on the table.

 

I personnaly get the jaws when I pull out 2 LRC and 2 rhinos then I bring out the DH codex and they either go whats that or go ahhh ok.

 

Horde don't get played in my area but I wonder if anyone will be playing them at ard boyz due to kill da fast ones scenario? Apparently other races are but not the marines.

[Brother-Captain Isaac]

Only Space Wolves could footslog effectively these days.

 

If you simply have to be a footslogger, try Scouts and Termies. They would be the most "mobile" units you could get footslogging. Scouts by Infilitrate, Termies by Relentless. And get a Tac Squad and a Thunderfire Cannon up a Bolstered ruin with an objective and you're golden. Beware of outflanking units though, you lack the abliity to run away from them. Take a MotF with a Conversion Beamer for the Gunline HQ.