TWC focus army build.

[Silvtalon]

I been playing for some time with other armies, one a shooter army to know what its like to be all shooty (tau). Then a melee focused army (Orcs) An mixes in between over the years. This is the first time I built a space wolves listing for 1850 and I want to ensure I have a good strong list to give people a run for their money. But I also want to take advantage of keeping this a Thunderwolf/fernisan wolf theme army.

 

HQ

The two leaders are part of the them from the story on cani's listing in the codex. They are packmates/brothers so they shall run together in true lupine fasion.:P

Canis Wolfborn 205pts

2 Wolves

 

Wolf Lord "Deathwolf" 275pts

Wolflord

Thunderwolf Mount

runic armor

Frost Blade

Thunder shield

2 fenrisian wolves

Saga Warrior Born or Bear (not sure which)

 

Elite

These are units are used to cause mass havoc in the enemy lines by using them as drop pod assault. Hightly expect to loose them but they buy time for the rest of the army.

 

Dreadnaught 150pts

Assault Cannon

Dread Powerfist

Hvy flamer

Drop pod

 

Dreadnaught 150pts

Assault cannon

Dread Powerfist

Hvy Flamer

Drop Pod

 

Troops

Fenrisian Wolves 120pts

15 wolves

 

Fenrisian Wolves 120pts

15 wolves

 

Fenrisian wolves 56pts

7 wolves

 

Grey Hunters 225pts

10men

bolt guns

2 flamer

1 mark of wolfin

1 powerfist

Drop Pod

-This unit is tactical in use. To support the dreads or Main force or objectives.- This unit is held as turn 2 roll and onwards for reserves.

 

Fast Attack

Thunderwolf Cavalry 425pts

5 thunderwolves

5 storm shields

1 pfist

-This unit is the leaders body guards. The extra wounds soak.

 

Heavy Support

Preditor 120pts

Autocannon

Side sponsons Las

 

 

Any suggestions to make this force stronger? I know I can swing some points around to get some melta bombs for the TWC's or 2-3 upgrades for melta weapons for some units. Whats your take? I want to try to keep 2 fenrisian wolves units and the TWC's thats the focus of this army theme.. All else can be adjusted..

 

Anyhow I hope this is in the right thread.

[Jonny Wolf]

THunder wolf calvary are not elite, they're fast attack.

[maligncomedy]

Try something like this:

 

HQ:

 

Logan Grimnar

Canis Wolfborn

2 Thunderwolf Mounted Wolf Lord/Wolf Guard Battle Leaders

 

 

Troops:

 

2 to 3 Wolf Guard Packs on Bikes with a decent amount of combi-weapons and a power weapon/powerfist

 

Fast Attack:

 

3 Squads of Thunderwolf Calvary - 5 Thunderwolfs (1 Stormshield, 1 Plasma Pistol, 1 Stormshield + Meltabombs, 1 Stormshield + Powerweapon, 1 Stormshield + Mark of the Wulfen)

 

 

 

There you go. Mobile Wolves. Mini-Nob Bikers in a sense as well. Hard to justify though due to extremely high points costs. But otherwise I think your list is much better. XD.

[Silvtalon]

Try something like this:

 

HQ:

 

Logan Grimnar

Canis Wolfborn

2 Thunderwolf Mounted Wolf Lord/Wolf Guard Battle Leaders

 

 

Troops:

 

2 to 3 Wolf Guard Packs on Bikes with a decent amount of combi-weapons and a power weapon/powerfist

 

Fast Attack:

 

3 Squads of Thunderwolf Calvary - 5 Thunderwolfs (1 Stormshield, 1 Plasma Pistol, 1 Stormshield + Meltabombs, 1 Stormshield + Powerweapon, 1 Stormshield + Mark of the Wulfen)

 

 

 

There you go. Mobile Wolves. Mini-Nob Bikers in a sense as well. Hard to justify though due to extremely high points costs. But otherwise I think your list is much better. XD.

 

Nice, idea.. But a few problems I can already see with it.

 

Logan is a very nice character but.. On foot by himself.. Bad.. Your giving up a free kill a HQ. In addtion your waisting his abilities

 

Bikes are instant killed by str 8-10 weapons You have so few they would be easy targets there are tons of s8-9 weapons on the field at this point level. Due to such you loose them you can't take objectives.. Your forced to tie or wipe out the enemy.

 

Mark of the Wulfen is waisted in a TWC squad unless your roll 5-6 all the time. Other wise your best off with enjoying the base + charge.. Nomrally 1 squad with a leader would chew though almost anything.

 

TWC are far effective as a melee oriented unit. To be honest i'd rather assault two squads of enemies in front of my TWC's then shooting at one single unit in front of me and possibly having a model removed that other wise could of gotten me in to combat with them. In addition pulling a in two decent or weak squads into melee combat ensures you can't be charged by a secondary squad in their turn as they loose all those extra attacks they would of otherwise had. A extra 5+ attacks from a charge can do a lot of damage if they roll very good.

 

Was thinking of adding 2 melta bombs to the TWC's, upgrading the dreads with Meltas vs assault cannons so I have a choice to tank hunt or troop when they come in.

 

I do like some of the ideas you propose and will think about it.. Thank you

[rahl02]

If I were to do it, I'd do 2 full squads of TWC, 3 full Gh packs meltas and fists w/ rhinos. A squad of wolves. plus some anti tank support for mech eldar lists.

 

If your going to make a list, keep an idea for incase you have a friend play a mech eldar list. Which will rock any canis based list, if you don't have any anti tank. Your TWC won't be able to keep up with the Wave Serpents, and if you do manage a glancing hit he's most likly still able to move and you won't get a 2nd chance. Remember you only hit skimmers on a 6 and then you're only penitrating on a 6. Odds arn't that great.

[maligncomedy]

Try something like this:

 

HQ:

 

Logan Grimnar

Canis Wolfborn

2 Thunderwolf Mounted Wolf Lord/Wolf Guard Battle Leaders

 

 

Troops:

 

2 to 3 Wolf Guard Packs on Bikes with a decent amount of combi-weapons and a power weapon/powerfist

 

Fast Attack:

 

3 Squads of Thunderwolf Calvary - 5 Thunderwolfs (1 Stormshield, 1 Plasma Pistol, 1 Stormshield + Meltabombs, 1 Stormshield + Powerweapon, 1 Stormshield + Mark of the Wulfen)

 

 

 

There you go. Mobile Wolves. Mini-Nob Bikers in a sense as well. Hard to justify though due to extremely high points costs. But otherwise I think your list is much better. XD.

 

Nice, idea.. But a few problems I can already see with it.

 

Logan is a very nice character but.. On foot by himself.. Bad.. Your giving up a free kill a HQ. In addtion your waisting his abilities

 

I'm fully aware of that. He only made it onto the army list to make the Wolf Guard into troops. Although, since Calvary move like Infantry, you can march him up near them so they benefit from the attack bonus until it gets to the point that they should ditch him and rush the enemy.

Bikes are instant killed by str 8-10 weapons You have so few they would be easy targets there are tons of s8-9 weapons on the field at this point level. Due to such you loose them you can't take objectives.. Your forced to tie or wipe out the enemy.

Yup, bikes are easily killed, but they are not meant to really engage the enemy in this list. More like last minute assault on an objective or an attempt to deny. Hence combi-weapons and power weapons. Cheap but just decent enough to down a weakened opponent.

 

Mark of the Wulfen is waisted in a TWC squad unless your roll 5-6 all the time. Other wise your best off with enjoying the base + charge.. Nomrally 1 squad with a leader would chew though almost anything.

I disagree here. Mark of the Wulfen adds an additional weapon group for the purposes of Wound Allocation while allowing you to keep the Stormshield (and thus have more units with 3+ invuls). If the Wolf Lords/Canis join the TWC, then we have 6 weapon groups in a squad of 6 units. All two wounds. All but one with an invul save (except for the squad with Canis, which has 2 without invul). That being said, dropping Canis for a 3rd Wolf Lord might be worth it to get an additional invul save.

 

TWC are far effective as a melee oriented unit. To be honest i'd rather assault two squads of enemies in front of my TWC's then shooting at one single unit in front of me and possibly having a model removed that other wise could of gotten me in to combat with them. In addition pulling a in two decent or weak squads into melee combat ensures you can't be charged by a secondary squad in their turn as they loose all those extra attacks they would of otherwise had. A extra 5+ attacks from a charge can do a lot of damage if they roll very good.

Yes, as melee they are disgustingly powerful. Much like Bloodcrushers really. And at no point did I switch them for shooty. I just merely set up their wargear to increase their survivablity. XD. Being amazing in close combat means nothing if you can't get there.

 

Was thinking of adding 2 melta bombs to the TWC's, upgrading the dreads with Meltas vs assault cannons so I have a choice to tank hunt or troop when they come in.

 

I do like some of the ideas you propose and will think about it.. Thank you

 

No problem, man, have fun with your list. When your done do post it up, I'd be interested to see how it turns out.

[Silvtalon]

I'm fully aware of that. He only made it onto the army list to make the Wolf Guard into troops. Although, since Calvary move like Infantry, you can march him up near them so they benefit from the attack bonus until it gets to the point that they should ditch him and rush the enemy.

 

Very true his ability to make wolf guard into troops is a nice idea although its still iffy...

1) limited number of troops in 1 squad even on bikes kinda doesn't justify taking them.

2) Slowing down a cavalry abilities. To Fleet and charge at 12 when at the earliest possibility can hurt them pretty badly

3) His abilities are still waisted on a TWC squad.

 

It is really hard to justify putting him in there..... With even my build or your suggested build. He is more of a troop oriented army character were he excels at bolstering the lines or assaults.

 

Yup, bikes are easily killed, but they are not meant to really engage the enemy in this list. More like last minute assault on an objective or an attempt to deny. Hence combi-weapons and power weapons. Cheap but just decent enough to down a weakened opponent.

 

I like the suggestion but still a few factors that makes me say no to this.

1) Few numbers

2) Heavy weapon target fodder

3) Chances are a smart player will kill'm off at range reguardless where you hide them with line of site rules unless your hidden behind something BIG! An to cross X distance to take or contest = Fail They die before arriving or when they arrive in most cases.

 

I am no fan of biker nobs or space marine bikers they work well but for a multi-purpose role they have their limits Imo.

 

I disagree here. Mark of the Wulfen adds an additional weapon group for the purposes of Wound Allocation while allowing you to keep the Stormshield (and thus have more units with 3+ invuls). If the Wolf Lords/Canis join the TWC, then we have 6 weapon groups in a squad of 6 units. All two wounds. All but one with an invul save (except for the squad with Canis, which has 2 without invul). That being said, dropping Canis for a 3rd Wolf Lord might be worth it to get an additional invul save. + Was thinking of adding 2 melta bombs to the TWC's.

 

Mark of the wulfen is a good idea for additional weapon group. But as I mentioned about adding melta bombs. Those melta bombs can easily be added for less points and obtaining a more diverse dist. So you got a wound dist of... 1 pfist, 2 melta equiped, 2 standard. This gives you 3 sep choices and that is not counting the leader. Your suggestion is very helpful indeed, ill work on obtaining a better would dist. I think properly adjusting that will ensure higher survivablity rate on my models.

 

Canis may have no inv save and he has two wounds but his abilities are nothing to be sneezed at. That is why he is chosen for heavy suppression vs troops with int 6 and power weapons he'll most likely kill anything in base contact pretty quick.

 

No problem, man, have fun with your list. When your done do post it up, I'd be interested to see how it turns out.[\quote]

 

Indeed I will....

 

I have some ideas... Although I know that I have around 180pts (from fenrisian wolves being removed a squad and half) + 120 from a pred... + Drop 1 TWC to make a 4 man twc squad.. But loosing.. 24 wounds and an anti tank option for 1 squad... For 1850pts force.. Is very very... unsettling..

 

You gain 8 wounds, 1 s10 powerfist with 5 attacks, 2 meltas, 20 normal attacks with rending... You have no way of dealing with armor easier with the pred gone.. And your meat shield is only 1 squad....

[Silvtalon]

I spent over 2-3hrs compiling ideas, different builds.... The suggestions I was given..

 

If I was playing a point build like Ard'boyz I'd indeed run two twc's... Anything 1850 or less more then one TWC unit under full strength and equip'd well is asking for trouble. Taking ideas and suggestions about having to deal with armor.. An trying to keep true to my original Idea and a few play mock tests of the list I am posting. I am happy to present this list as my alpha test list.

 

 

Keeping true in attempting to make a competitive force that can be used for fun and turnys. As well as keeping true to canis's lore I wanted to make sure I had a stronger wolf leader then canis. In addition keeping clear of the rules making sure the wargear between the two are different in all respects as much as possible.

 

Canis Wolfborn 185pts

2 Wolves 20pts

Pts. 205

 

Wolf Lord Harald Deathwolf

WL 100

Thunderwolf mount 45

Runic Armor 20

Frost Blade 25

Thunder Shield 30

2 Fenrisian Wolves 20

Saga (Warrior Or Bear) 35

Pts. 275

 

side note "Considering droping Frost blade for Wolf Claws & melta bomb (If only) when Warrior born saga is used. If bear saga is used I'll use a frost blade" - Both Hq's join Thunderwolf Unit.

 

Elite

Dreadnought 105

Heavy Flammer 10

Multi-melta Free

Drop Pod 35

Pts. 150pts

 

Dreadnought 105

Heavy Flammer 10

Multi-melta Free

Drop Pod 35

Pts. 150pts

 

Role of elite: Dreads drop in on first turn targeting high profile tanks -> Monsterious Creatures -> Troops.... Using drop pod assault. I place my drop point with in 1 inch of the target unit. If I land there I move slightly to the side or back but enough to deploy the drop pod. If the drop pod lands on the target model I move back until I am safe to land it. Only one catch... Don't fall off the table its a bit tricky but in all odds you should be able to get were you need to be with the drop pods "Inertial Guidance system" 80% of the time.

 

The primary role is to make the enemy focus their attention on the two dreads while giving your TWC's time to move forward ensuring they get at least a turn or two of lightly being attacked.

 

Troops

Grey Hunters

10 Man 150

Flamer free

Melta-gun Free

Power Fist 25

Motw 15

Drop Pod 35

Pts 225

 

 

Fenrisian Wolves

12 wolves 98

 

Fenrisian Wolves

12 Wolves 98

 

Role of troops: Fenrisian wolves have only one function TIE UP shooting lines. If they survive 1-2 turns in melee combat then they have done there job giving your TWC's time to eat there current target and move to assist the wolves. It's all about leap frog at this point.

Grey hunters are Multi-role. Use them wisely.. They are to support if needed but mainly to ensure you can hold an objective or take a objective from an enemy.

 

Fast Attack

TWC

5 Twc's 250

1 Power fist 25

2 Melta Bombs 10

4 Storm 120

Pts 405

 

Role: Kill'em All! Doesn't matter.. Just kill it.. Hard and fast... You have 3 wound distrubitions in the squad itself. Combine it with the leaders and pets for a total of 6. More then enough for this squad.. They are able to take out vehicals, Heavy troops, light infantry and anything esle they may run into very fast. -MUST have HQ attached to them both HQ's to be effective-

 

Heavy Support

I was originally thinking of taking a land raider with the twin las set-up but I compared it to having to preds with the setup I have below and realized even though the survivablity is slightly less then a land raider. I had far more firepower on two preds and more target options. So I took the preds in the end.

 

Pred 1

Tank 60

Side Sponsons las 60

Auto Cannon free

pts. 120

 

Pred 2

Tank 60

Side Sponsons las 60

Auto Cannon free

pts. 120

 

Now all I have to do is test this army out against other players at my game store when I get the models built.. I can mock test this at my own home all I want.. An after one battle.. I saw the added improvements I just made give me some really sharp fangs to bring to bare against my foes.

 

 

Anyhow let me know what you think... I do thank you for the help and comments you provided it really got me thinking and reconsidering some equipment and gear.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

You may struggle on multi-objective games as wolves cannot hold an objective and that leaves you with one scoring unit and everything else contesting.

 

I consider scoring troops a must in 5th Edition

[Silvtalon]

You may struggle on multi-objective games as wolves cannot hold an objective and that leaves you with one scoring unit and everything else contesting.

 

I consider scoring troops a must in 5th Edition

 

There is always a method to my madness :D

 

I do realize that the wolves themselves are not scoring they are 196 points that are fillers. I am seeing how useful they are, the purpose of the wolves is to tie up movement of the enemy forces that are not in vehicles to hold them in place for a turn or more. The tanks take out the transports that have troops and and other tanks. The dreads tank hunt or troop hunt which ever is a higher priority. While the TWC's clean sweep. If all goes right the enemy shouldn't be able to leave his deployment zone for a couple turns as they are cleaning out the dread problems. Even if he does he wouldn't have much or its deep striking stuff.

 

I am not worried about it. I will either contest or wipe them out loosing is a possibility but its worth gamble. Anyhow I need to play this army build a bit to really get the grasp of what I will need to switch out to make it more effective. I might drop the wolves for a squad of grey hunters in a rhino switching up some points to make them work.

 

 

I love tactics, and crazy antics. An this army build reflects the crazy but yet hopefully well played tactical movements. Ah.... I so do love the strats of "The Desertfox" (WWII General African Campain) I have used a few of his tactics and they do work well even in this game.