Phal Brannon Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 The Reason I ask is because I'd like to represent Bran Redmaw using the mark of wulfen and the saga of the warrior born, (Nasty I know) but it states that the mark of the wulfen are attacks made with teeth and claws and hence are not affected by wargear, additional hand weapons and so on, though they may be bolstered by other factors ie: +1 for charging or things like logans living legend etc. I'm of the belief that saga's are not wargear as its not something that the character would grab out the armoury, its within him and the saga is built upon his battlefield deeds not his weapons. also I can't find anywhere that it states saga's are wargear, so they should fall in to the etc bracket. So what do you hairy son of russ think? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180986-are-sagas-wargear/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleipnir Frostfang Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I wouldn't say they are wargear...more like the vows of the Black Templar Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180986-are-sagas-wargear/#findComment-2143012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldenhaller Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 interesting question; I'd say thaat no, it's not wargear. My thinking is; 1 - Wargear is listed on the characters profile as being guns, armour, grendes etc. Wargear options then exchange for these. As this is separate to that this would not be wargear. 2 - It's listed separately under the leaders section from wargear My tupenth ~O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180986-are-sagas-wargear/#findComment-2143015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Well, the fact that the "Leaders of the Pack" rule specifically puts Sagas in it's own category, I would imagine it is separate. On a tactical note, it's a waste to give a Wolf Lord (or Battle Leader) Mark of the Wulfen, and trying to stack it with Saga of the Warrior Born. Unless you fight low-armor troops, or roll a LOT of 6's, you'd be better off taking a weapon that guarantees you kills (dual Wolf Claws, Frost Blade, etc.). The big reason is because a Wolf Lord has 4 attacks base, 5 for two hand weapons. Taking Mark of the Wulfen immediately drops that to D6+1. There are turns you may have 7 attacks (2 more attacks than the norm), and some turns you may only roll 2 or 3 (far below the norm). DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180986-are-sagas-wargear/#findComment-2143020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phal Brannon Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 I know it’s not the most effective wolf lord build but I play for fun and fluff fitting is more important to me than results, as I've said it's to represent Bran Redmaw who it is said that some whisper that he has been seen to take on a different form when caught up in the hunt. So although mark of the wulfen is not that great for wolf lords I'm not that bothered as I think it fits Brans fluff, still if combined with saga of the warrior born it will sometimes (ok not very often) be savage. a couple of turns of close combat with him accumulating an attack from each kill he makes + d6+1 attacks + good dice roll = silly amount of attacks with rending. Cheers for the reply guys it would seem that to the majority this combo is legal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180986-are-sagas-wargear/#findComment-2143652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zemox Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Dont worry about it as long as your opponents doesnt see it as "cheesey" they couldnt care less -.-' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180986-are-sagas-wargear/#findComment-2143698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Scalphunter Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 So although mark of the wulfen is not that great for wolf lords I'm not that bothered as I think it fits Bran's fluff, Ooh, so GW has finally understood how freakin' awesome I am and made me into a true blue SW character? Excellent... ;) Methinks I can get some royalty for the name. And if the ES is there I'll really go to town. Expensive perhaps, but I think Mighty Bran would be better represented by Warrior-Born, Wulfen, and a TWM. Just cause you can and it's fething awesome. At least that's what Bran says (and I'd think Bran knows Bran well enough). :confused: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180986-are-sagas-wargear/#findComment-2143802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 They are wargear. page 24; Sagas: last sentence: Characters can purchase sagas as a special type of wargear, described in detail on page 64. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180986-are-sagas-wargear/#findComment-2143867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Bloodwolf Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 i dont know guys i think it counts as wargear because on page 24 of the codex it says and i quote that "Characters can purchase sagas as a special type of wargear". now i dont know if that counts towards affecting the mark of the wulfen Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180986-are-sagas-wargear/#findComment-2143894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Well, the fact that the "Leaders of the Pack" rule specifically puts Sagas in it's own category, I would imagine it is separate. On a tactical note, it's a waste to give a Wolf Lord (or Battle Leader) Mark of the Wulfen, and trying to stack it with Saga of the Warrior Born. Unless you fight low-armor troops, or roll a LOT of 6's, you'd be better off taking a weapon that guarantees you kills (dual Wolf Claws, Frost Blade, etc.). The big reason is because a Wolf Lord has 4 attacks base, 5 for two hand weapons. Taking Mark of the Wulfen immediately drops that to D6+1. There are turns you may have 7 attacks (2 more attacks than the norm), and some turns you may only roll 2 or 3 (far below the norm). DV8 I agree with DV8 here- sagas as a thing of their own.... ephemerial... and this combination, while imaginative is probly not the best. Personlly, I think Saga of the Warrior Born is by itself a good way to represent the more agressive warlords, inclooding Lord Redmaw. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180986-are-sagas-wargear/#findComment-2143958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 They are wargear. page 24; Sagas: last sentence: Characters can purchase sagas as a special type of wargear, described in detail on page 64. Umm, wargear......lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180986-are-sagas-wargear/#findComment-2143987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phal Brannon Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 They are wargear. page 24; Sagas: last sentence: Characters can purchase sagas as a special type of wargear, described in detail on page 64. Umm, wargear......lol. Checked and you are indeed correct but as you have quoted someone else it says that they are a special type of wargear which by taking into account the words special type means its not straight up wargear and shouldn’t necessarily be treated as such, so would this special type of wargear fall into the etc in the below ruling, the mark of the wulfen are attacks made with teeth and claws and hence are not affected by wargear, additional hand weapons and so on, though they may be bolstered by other factors ie: +1 for charging or things like logans living legend etc. Taking into account that more often than not its gonna be less effective than a wolf lord with two power weapons and saga of the warrior born when it comes to dealing out damage, I still think its a legal combo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180986-are-sagas-wargear/#findComment-2144723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rahl02 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I'd probably allow it as well. Though it does state that it's wargear, it'll just be fun to see that guy in combat. Hopefully he rolls lots of 6's to wound. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180986-are-sagas-wargear/#findComment-2144730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Scotcho Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I agree, it should be able to work. I've been hanging out with powergamers lately, and they all seem to think our new 'dex is underpowered, so I don't think you should have any problems. I'm not sure, but I never really pictured Bran Redmaw on a Thunderwolf, he seems more of a loner to me. I could definitely see him ripping into things with twin chainswords, and then dropping them/leaving them stuck in a victim when his Wulfen side comes out, and he doesn't think he's killing things fast enough. I think Warrior Born is a very good choice for him too. How are you going to model him? I think maybe a modified Wulfen model might work, modified because he hasn't been in the Eye of Terror for 10,000 years and would have no need of replacements. You could file the overtly Chaos bits down, and use greenstuff to make him look more Imperial (or as Imperial as we ever get). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180986-are-sagas-wargear/#findComment-2144753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Since Wargear has its own category in our Codex and a few pages away after vehicle upgrades you have Sagas listed I would say they are not intended to be the same thing. Wargear is gear listed in that category while Sagas are Sagas listed in that caegory, more like Psychic powers than anything. Vrox Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180986-are-sagas-wargear/#findComment-2144770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 It says specail type of wargear..., not Wargaer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180986-are-sagas-wargear/#findComment-2144826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phal Brannon Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 How are you going to model him? I think maybe a modified Wulfen model might work, modified because he hasn't been in the Eye of Terror for 10,000 years and would have no need of replacements. You could file the overtly Chaos bits down, and use greenstuff to make him look more Imperial (or as Imperial as we ever get). The Wulfen models are cool but I'm loving the new plastics so coverting something from them will probably be the way I go, I'm thinking running/loping foward, maybe one hand planted kinda like the sabertooth toy below, http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n104/Rogaldorn_album/92DF18D3D56FE11243752C8ED8DC8CD7.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180986-are-sagas-wargear/#findComment-2144906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I agree, it should be able to work. I've been hanging out with powergamers lately, and they all seem to think our new 'dex is underpowered, so I don't think you should have any problems. I'm not sure, but I never really pictured Bran Redmaw on a Thunderwolf, he seems more of a loner to me. I could definitely see him ripping into things with twin chainswords, and then dropping them/leaving them stuck in a victim when his Wulfen side comes out, and he doesn't think he's killing things fast enough. I think Warrior Born is a very good choice for him too. How are you going to model him? I think maybe a modified Wulfen model might work, modified because he hasn't been in the Eye of Terror for 10,000 years and would have no need of replacements. You could file the overtly Chaos bits down, and use greenstuff to make him look more Imperial (or as Imperial as we ever get). Different guy. Bran Redmaw has been a WL of the Fang for a while now, long before GW came out with the 13nth company. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/180986-are-sagas-wargear/#findComment-2144996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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