Drop Pods, Venerable Dreadnought or Regular Dreadnought?

[Evilmerlin]

So, I'm planning a list with 3 Drop Pods (1 with Terminators and 1 with Grey Hunters), my 3rd drop pod will be a Dreadnought but I'm torn between the Venerable and the Regular. For 60pts, I get an extra WS and being harder to kill but 60pts is quite a bit to pay. Though having a blast weapon at BS5 is very very nice....

 

The Dreadnought will be armed with a Plasma Cannon and Heavy Flamer.

 

So is it worth the extra 60pts or do I just go for the regular version?

[dudelord]

I use the regular one.

The 60 points isn't worth the harder to kill and the extra WS IMO.

If he was still a HQ, or if he had more attacks I'd like him lol, but as he is, he's just too much for what he offers in my army.

[Simo429]

i have been thinking about exactly the same issue and i have come to the conclusion that it just isnt worth the 60 points

 

thats an extr 4 grey hunters at the end of the day

[Catheras]

I disagree with 60 points being too expensive, when you have had your venerable(AC+DCCW) walk over the board and shoot down 1 tau suit retinue, assault 3 hammerheads and 1 kroot squad, while under the fire of 3 hammerheads and x-number tau plasma rifles and come away unscathed, you will appreciate the reroll the venerable gives you. <_<

 

So in my experience, it's well worth the points if you want it to stay alive more than 1 turn after you pod it down in the middle of his army.

[Grey Mage]

So, I'm planning a list with 3 Drop Pods (1 with Terminators and 1 with Grey Hunters), my 3rd drop pod will be a Dreadnought but I'm torn between the Venerable and the Regular. For 60pts, I get an extra WS and being harder to kill but 60pts is quite a bit to pay. Though having a blast weapon at BS5 is very very nice....

 

The Dreadnought will be armed with a Plasma Cannon and Heavy Flamer.

 

So is it worth the extra 60pts or do I just go for the regular version?

Venerable is good... but I have to scratch my head at the Plasmacannon.

 

Why on earth would you put an AP 2 template in the same drop as your WGTDA or GHs?

 

I suppose its not all bad, its a nice weapon.... but if you even consider putting a PC in their, that extra inch of scatter reduction may save you a 75pt nightmare.

[Evilmerlin]

I took the Plasma Cannon mainly for the versatility that it provides. Allowing me to target both armour and infantry. Yes, there is a chance that it could scatter over the TDAs (my first two drop would be the Dread and the TDAs) but I think that's pretty slim, I can work around an average 3" scatter.

 

I did consider the Multi Melta though, considering that I do have a Heavy Flamer to anti-infantry work.

 

Would you think that's a better choice?

[Grey Mage]

Actually I would go with an assault cannon- great against any kind of infantry in the game, normally wounding on a 2+ and often ignoring armor saves. Four shots makes good use of BS 5, range isnt an issue with a DP, oh, and it penetrates AV 14 better than a Lascannon at short range- though admittedly not as well as a Multimelta would.

 

Its also standard armament, and thus dirt cheap by comparison.

[lunchb0x]

save the 60 for the upgrade to ven...and get some points and get some scouts!!!

[Thorgad]

Perhaps not entirely related to the discussion, but have anyone considered taking a Ven. Dread and giving it Saga of Majesty? I think this would work especially well with a droppodding list.

[Grey Mage]

I hadnt thought of that for my DPs, but it will be a staple of my Footslogging list.

 

It really really helps, especially if you cant cram another WG in their for them.

 

Wich I suppose is the best reason for a DP list after all.

[Simo429]

i plan to go for one dread in a drop pod to hopefully take out some enemy armour but if not to be the main focus of the enemy while the rest of my forces move up in their transports

 

not sure what to go for though on the armament, im tempted by just an assault cannon and CC/heavy flamer because hopefuly ranges will be quite low because I want to get it as close as possible as quick as possible

[Gentlemanloser]

I hadnt thought of that for my DPs, but it will be a staple of my Footslogging list.

 

Have you considered using Bjorn instead?

 

He's awesome, and really durable, and comes with the Saga of Majesty built in. I'd push to ge the points from a Ven Dread with Saga to get Bjorn instead. :)

 

If only Bjorn had Extra Armour though!

[White Hunter]

How important is extra armor for a drop podding dread?

[Silvtalon]

I disagree with 60 points being too expensive, when you have had your venerable(AC+DCCW) walk over the board and shoot down 1 tau suit retinue, assault 3 hammerheads and 1 kroot squad, while under the fire of 3 hammerheads and x-number tau plasma rifles and come away unscathed, you will appreciate the reroll the venerable gives you. :rolleyes:

 

So in my experience, it's well worth the points if you want it to stay alive more than 1 turn after you pod it down in the middle of his army.

 

I have to kinda laugh at this statement some what, in no means am I troll'n or anything like that. As a well versed tau player a venerable dread is nothing to worry about what so ever a well built army listing and someone that knows how to properly use his fire. I have yet to see a venerable dread last more then two turns against the forces I field and how I play, normal dreads I allow to live longer only if they are equipped with an assault cannon due to they arn't even a threat until turn 2.

 

Anyhow I'd suggest if your gonna be putting your dreads into close quarters as quickly as possible by drop pod'n them in on turn 1+. I'd make them normal dreads, give them multi-melta and heavy flamer with a DP for a total of 150 points. It's very well worth the cost you can drop in behind a tank or troop choice and deal with them giving your dreads a higher chance of survivability into your next turn in which they can be a serious threat. The important thing to keep in mind is to use the drop pod as a LOS disruptor. They may be able to see you with the new rules and shoot at you but you get a 4+ save from each pen or glance you may take. Knowing where to land your dreads, placement from drop pod and what targets you should focus on is tough at times as you have so many options to choose from. \

[Grey Mage]

I disagree with 60 points being too expensive, when you have had your venerable(AC+DCCW) walk over the board and shoot down 1 tau suit retinue, assault 3 hammerheads and 1 kroot squad, while under the fire of 3 hammerheads and x-number tau plasma rifles and come away unscathed, you will appreciate the reroll the venerable gives you. :rolleyes:

 

So in my experience, it's well worth the points if you want it to stay alive more than 1 turn after you pod it down in the middle of his army.

 

I have to kinda laugh at this statement some what, in no means am I troll'n or anything like that. As a well versed tau player a venerable dread is nothing to worry about what so ever a well built army listing and someone that knows how to properly use his fire. I have yet to see a venerable dread last more then two turns against the forces I field and how I play, normal dreads I allow to live longer only if they are equipped with an assault cannon due to they arn't even a threat until turn 2.

 

Anyhow I'd suggest if your gonna be putting your dreads into close quarters as quickly as possible by drop pod'n them in on turn 1+. I'd make them normal dreads, give them multi-melta and heavy flamer with a DP for a total of 150 points. It's very well worth the cost you can drop in behind a tank or troop choice and deal with them giving your dreads a higher chance of survivability into your next turn in which they can be a serious threat. The important thing to keep in mind is to use the drop pod as a LOS disruptor. They may be able to see you with the new rules and shoot at you but you get a 4+ save from each pen or glance you may take. Knowing where to land your dreads, placement from drop pod and what targets you should focus on is tough at times as you have so many options to choose from. \

And my venerable went into 90+% of the games I played in the last three years, including vs 6x broadside tau.

 

He died about once a year. So 1/50 games give or take.

 

Its all in the dice. Though youve got a good insight on deployment.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I just can't justify the 60 pts for myself. If I take a dread it will be in a pod for quick anti armor action(HF as backup for flambe work on weak units). Those 60 points are just too usefull in the rest of the army, when the vennie is still pretty fragile.

 

I think it may be one of those all or nothing deals. One ven dread is a minor long term threat, but three dreads with all being vennies or two regular and one vennie is a different story. OR if you have other army elements which are going to draw more attention from the dread.

[Silvtalon]

I disagree with 60 points being too expensive, when you have had your venerable(AC+DCCW) walk over the board and shoot down 1 tau suit retinue, assault 3 hammerheads and 1 kroot squad, while under the fire of 3 hammerheads and x-number tau plasma rifles and come away unscathed, you will appreciate the reroll the venerable gives you. :(

 

So in my experience, it's well worth the points if you want it to stay alive more than 1 turn after you pod it down in the middle of his army.

 

I have to kinda laugh at this statement some what, in no means am I troll'n or anything like that. As a well versed tau player a venerable dread is nothing to worry about what so ever a well built army listing and someone that knows how to properly use his fire. I have yet to see a venerable dread last more then two turns against the forces I field and how I play, normal dreads I allow to live longer only if they are equipped with an assault cannon due to they arn't even a threat until turn 2.

 

Anyhow I'd suggest if your gonna be putting your dreads into close quarters as quickly as possible by drop pod'n them in on turn 1+. I'd make them normal dreads, give them multi-melta and heavy flamer with a DP for a total of 150 points. It's very well worth the cost you can drop in behind a tank or troop choice and deal with them giving your dreads a higher chance of survivability into your next turn in which they can be a serious threat. The important thing to keep in mind is to use the drop pod as a LOS disruptor. They may be able to see you with the new rules and shoot at you but you get a 4+ save from each pen or glance you may take. Knowing where to land your dreads, placement from drop pod and what targets you should focus on is tough at times as you have so many options to choose from. \

And my venerable went into 90+% of the games I played in the last three years, including vs 6x broadside tau.

 

He died about once a year. So 1/50 games give or take.

 

Its all in the dice. Though youve got a good insight on deployment.

 

Ah, you got a good amount of luck behind you in your dice. Thats always the fun X factor that I enjoy myself which annoys many math-hammer players. I enjoy my shooter army a lot and rarely loose although my lists are always built for all comers config which is very hard to do with tau. My commander always seams to survive 90% of the games he's been in. He's even taken out a necron lord with that darn phase blade in close combat surviving with 1 wound. Heck he Even tau upper-cuted a hive tyrant to death taking no wounds once! Its all in the dice. Like your venerable dread that's my lucky unit.. My commander.

 

Anyhow I learn by watching, and mock battling with the mini's I have. Although I know the key use of the drop pods to a degree they are the best line of slight disruptors in the game. If you need to force an enemy unit to shoot though cover so you get 4+ saves from his heavy weapons those pods make great insta' terrain. Using them effectively with troops and dreads make them all the more annoying ensuring your troops or dread survive the turn or two longer.

 

Again don't discount the extra +1 armor and forcing the enemy to reroll a result for due to the venerable. Those are extra factors that ensure survivablity well beyound a normal dread. But the extra armor being so close to the frontal can be easily avoided by moving around behind or to the side of the dread. But the key advantage is the re-roll on the result of the pen or glance which is a nice addition. Not saying ven's are bad.. Just saying if you don't have the points to spare take normal dreds.. Other wise if you got an extra 60pts laying around pick up a venerable.

[spectre312]

Personally, just to keep my buddies on their toes, for a couple games I'm fielding bjorns honorguard (or my take on it anyways B)) And I'm deploying bjorn and another ven dread amongst my vindi's and razors, and drop podding two Multi-melta heavy flamer dread's and a GH pack. I figure it's one big hammer crashing on an armor busting anvil. That and I love the way my Ve's look, and can't bear to shelve them.

[G.M. Valens]

Actually I would go with an assault cannon- great against any kind of infantry in the game, normally wounding on a 2+ and often ignoring armor saves. Four shots makes good use of BS 5, range isnt an issue with a DP, oh, and it penetrates AV 14 better than a Lascannon at short range- though admittedly not as well as a Multimelta would.

 

Not true anymore. Assault cannons are not good vs AV 14 anymore. Rending is only +d3 now so you need a 6 followed by a 5 or a 6 just to glace AV 14. So lascannons are much better...also range does not factor into rending either.

 

This change makes me happy because not my Land Raiders are Gene Steeler proof :P

[Grey Mage]

Actually I would go with an assault cannon- great against any kind of infantry in the game, normally wounding on a 2+ and often ignoring armor saves. Four shots makes good use of BS 5, range isnt an issue with a DP, oh, and it penetrates AV 14 better than a Lascannon at short range- though admittedly not as well as a Multimelta would.

 

Not true anymore. Assault cannons are not good vs AV 14 anymore. Rending is only +d3 now so you need a 6 followed by a 5 or a 6 just to glace AV 14. So lascannons are much better...also range does not factor into rending either.

 

This change makes me happy because not my Land Raiders are Gene Steeler proof :devil:

4 shots- hitting on a 2+ is probly 4 hits.

3 penetrate rolls... youve got a 2/3 chance of getting a 6 somewhere in there. As opposed to the 1 in 3 chance for a 5 or a 6 a lascannon has.

Then you have a 1/3 chance to pop it.

 

Hrmm. I suppose, mathematically your correct- on average the lascannon is slightly better. About 2%.

 

Of course, for 30 pts more thats not saying alot. And range isnt a big deal when you throw a pod down 12" away and open up with said assault cannon.

[Evilmerlin]

Hmm, you gentlemen bring up some good points regarding the weapon load outs. I'll be going for the normal Dreadnought but might not be using the Plasma Cannon after all. Going to give the Assault Cannon and Multi-Melta a try.