Also newly returned, needing advice

[JTibbetts]

I have been playing and modeling since '88, but I've never had much luck at winning games. It's frankly not that important to me. However, I don't want to embarrass the Chapter with poor performance on the field. I am having trouble deciding where to go next in choosing a force that fights primarily Necrons.

 

I have 15 tactical marines (can be split into one 10 (and then two combats) and a 5-man combat squad), an 5-man assault squad (jump packs), and a Terminator Chaplain. I have a plasma gun and missile launcher in the bigger tac squad, a plasma pistol for all of my segeants, and an extra plasma pistol and a power weapon in the assault squad. That's about it. No wargear commitments on the HQ as of yet. I am obviously going plasma heavy in this build, mainly because they negate the armor save on Necrons.

 

I have one of those probability apps on my iPod, and it seems that no matter the setup, if Necrons get their armor saves I just can't bring enough gunfire on a squad to do more than one wound on average, with just bolters in a five man squad I can't even pull that off. Not to mention they get back up with alarming regularity. He hasn't thrown much at me yet, but I dread the very idea of a monolith, and I hesitate to field any vehicles at all, including Dreadnoughts.

 

So, I've read some strategy, but I thought I would ask you guys: what should I focus on for weapon options or the next items to buy and build? I am leaning towards Terminators, based on what I've read, but haven't decided if I want to do CC or shooty. Also, are teleport homers worth it? I am scared of losing troops to deep strike.

 

Side note: I'm OBSESSED with drop pods, and I would like to use them as much as possible. I've even baked all of these preferences in to my Chapter background, and there are some choices I will make simply because I love the models. I'm no power gamer, by any means.

 

I would appreciate any advice (I've read some, so you need not belabor the obvious)

 

Thanks all! I'm excited to join this board.

[Tfcdogbert]

My immediate thought, is too few, you dont have enough men per squad, 10 is a big blocky round and above all useful number, especially against necrons.

 

The Terminator Chaplain should i think join the assault squad and shed his armour to give it some more whack or stay in the foam until you can deploy terminators to support him, on is own he is a little of a white elephant.

 

Plasma is good versus crons, it negates their WBB as well as their armour save (remember that due to AP1), so are power weapons, the above be your friends, a chaplain in an assault squad should provide that very nicely, i cant emphasise this enough versus necrons, you dodge their rapid fire range and smack them down up close where they are weak.

 

For a Monolith, opinions vary, i personally liked a 3 las predator, necrons are awful at range, they have little over 36 inches, if he isnt using destroyers you can kite with the 48 inches of a predator, however a podding army has problems with that.

 

The problem is that close range anti tank is an issue, meltas dont do great versus monoliths, and dreads dont do to well, as they are likely to get into rapid fire range of necron warriors, and that is not a pleasent experience. Your approaching it right without tanks in a DP list IMO, as you cant field many and they become heavy weapons target number one and only.

 

To round this up, you need to bulk up a little more, exploit the weakness of necrons up close, use the chaplains advantages to get in there and wipe them up quickly to deny them WBB (if you wipe out a unit and there isnt one nearby they cannot WBB).

 

Otherwise... Welcome :(

[Hubernator]

My immediate thought was "LCs... where are they?". Necrons have the most shocking Initiative numbers bar two units - wariths and the Deciever. You ought to get a squad of CC termis, arm them all with LCs, attach your chappie to them and hey presto - an instant squad killer. A 5 man squad would even do the trick - 10 would double your output and chances of knocking them crons dead B) FOr anything else I might've suggested a different squad layout for your tacticals. Meltagun and plasma cannon would be deadly - pieplate plasma and assaulty metla fun :) Other than that, Tfcdogbert makes a good point - more men to your squads to let them survive

 

 

And welcome to the boards :)

[greatcrusade08]

Welcome brother

 

By far the best way to kill crons is to beat them in CC and run them down, they cant get back up from that B)

Scout snipers are pretty good and can take down the tomb spyders and ctan if you have enough shots/numbers.

Necron shooting can be very dangerous so you want to close the gap asap, to that end you want fast moving units like bikers and assault squads, kill them in CC dont try to outshoot them!

 

A couple of vindies can be pieplate heaven and can even take on monoliths, as for pods a coupld of podding dreads can work wonders!

 

GC08

[Divergent Reality]

plasma does not deny we'll be back. the only things that deny wbb are weapons whos strength is double the model's toughness and close combat attacks that ignore armor saves. so, melta are good at stopping wbb, but they do not shoot enough. my suggestion are things that readily deny armor saves (like plasma) but allow wbb. necrons are just like space marines, you force enough armor saves and they fold. if you deep strike, watch out. the tin heads are a mid to short range force. getting in their face is great for shock value, but you fall into where necron players want you: rapid fire range. at that point you will be susceptible to particle whips, firepower and asaults. my least favorite (as a necron player) marine tactic are drop pods with the misile launchers. they hit lots of models and force lots of saves. remember that necrons can break and run.

[Chengar Qordath]

Also, since nobody has mentioned it yet, remember the Phase Out rule. It is the Necrons' biggest weakness, especially in lists that start packing expensive but scary units like C'tan and Monoliths.

[Divergent Reality]

as for pods a coupld of podding dreads can work wonders!

i agree with you on evrything but the last point. podding dreads are not great. a few glances thanks to gauss and you can have an immobilized dread with no gun that sits there foaming at the sarcophagus waiting for a techmarine to fix him. i can see three dreads focusing on a flank like that being effective, but a dread or two is no problem. a single podded dread has not been a problem for me before. but your opponent might not be as lucky on their armor penetration rols.

[Vor]

I'd not use Drop Pod Dreads. They're horrible against Necrons.

 

20-40 shots from a single unit is nasty. They glance on 6 regardless. They might not be able to destroy you (unless they take both your arms and immobilise you), but they can stop you doing anything all game. A friend I play with always did this to me. So much so I stopped using dreads when fighting him. He now has Tau which are even worse for my poor dreads!

[JTibbetts]

Thanks for all the tips, folks. I happen to love plasma, and I really wish it denied WBB... I like the unpredictability of knowing it could blow up in my face. Makes for fun games. I really appreciate the comments from Necron players about what they don't like. Thanks a ton!

 

I think I'm headed towards CC Terminators for my next purchase. FTR, I plan on using my 10 man Tac squad together once we start playing somewhat larger games. It came in handy being able to split my fire last game I played in the smaller situations.

 

Also, Flayed Ones have an Initiative of 4 as well. I've already learned to fear them. I failed one of my psych rolls and didn't land a single hit on them in one turn last game.

 

As for the Termie Chaplain, he actually rides with my combat squad who act as his sort of retinue. The regular ol' Tac marines did great on their first turn charging into combat, re-rolling misses with two attacks each. In fact, I hit with every single die!

[waaanial00]

Out shooting Necrons is usually a highway to nothing. Their 3+ armour save along with their WBB rolls means that you cannot throw enough weapons fire at them in your average Marine army to put them down and keep them down by shooting alone. Its a sad fact but something we must be aware of.

 

Second point that noone has mentioned. There is not value in going with high AV armour. Land Raiders may as well be Rhinos for the sake of armour penetration to Necrons because all Gauss weapons glance on a 6+. Anyone not worried about being glanced has obviously never been hit by a large unit of warriors, tanks just become rusting hunks of metal in this instance.

 

Next point I will make is to back up and elloborate upon GC08's point about scouts. Pack CC scouts in large enough numbers and you should be able to out fight Necrons in assaults, this is important as it allows you to force leadership checks and therefore sweeping advances (THE way to kill Necrons!). Power weapons are great against 'crons as it denies their WBB rolls and denies their armour save so make sure your scout Sgt is armed with a power weapon or fist.

 

Dont count on being able to keep 'crons in combat. A 10 man tactical squad is bought at 10 man to allow it to get into combat with large numbers and make the most impact it can first time, every time. It is not taken at 10 man to survive long drawn out assaults. If you take Assault Marines take them in units of 10 and pack plasma pistols, not only do they deny the 3+ save but they do not lose their additional attack in the assault phase because they no longer have 2 CC weapons.

 

Be agressive! In all walks of Marine gaming you should be agressive, the marines operate really well at short distances and mediocre (in the main) at long range. Use transports and go as fast as you can towards the enemy. As stated earlier trading shots with 'crons long distance will see your army dead! Get close enough, fast enough that your momentum will carry you into the enemy lines with sufficient numbers to kill them in CC.

 

Hope some of this advice works. If you like Drop Pods consider using Sternguard. They have more attacks and a better range of shooting abilities than your standard tactical marine. They are also a brilliant antidote to turbo boosting scarabs with their 2+ cover saves and the high toughness C'tan.

 

Good hunting.

 

Wan

[Vor]

I had the idea of Podding in 10 Sternguard and hitting the C'Tan with a Rapid Fire Hellfire rounds to see if I could kill him on turn one. Never had the chance to try it though.

[Chengar Qordath]

I had the idea of Podding in 10 Sternguard and hitting the C'Tan with a Rapid Fire Hellfire rounds to see if I could kill him on turn one. Never had the chance to try it though.

Mathhammer says it should work; with hellfire rounds a squad of ten Sternguard will average just over five and a half unsaved wounds, so you have pretty good odds of one-shotting a C'tan. Even if you don't get the kill, unless your luck stinks you will have knocked off most of the C'tan's wounds; a lot of Necron players will be rather shaken by having one of their nigh-invincible C'tan nearly dead on turn 1.

 

Of course, conventional wisdom says that C'tan take away a lot of Necron models your opponent could be fielding; IMO against any Necron list featuring Monoliths and/or C'tan you're usually better off just going for Phase Out rather than wasting firepower and units on such hard to kill targets.

[JTibbetts]

You guys are boss. I have lots of ideas to work with now. I wasn't even thinking of the Sternguard vs. C'Tan scenerio! I love that idea. I would like a squad of these guys in a pod anyway, so if he ever gets around to fielding one of the gods I will have something to counter with.

 

I was doing the math today at work, and I realized that a squad of just five Lightning Claw Termies attached to my Chaplain would roll something like 23 dice when they charge, each one re-rolling misses and wounds, plus there would be no armor saves and no WBB without an orb around! That's amazing. It averages around 13 wounds according to i40K.

 

So, next question there is, how the heck do I get them close enough to charge without losing them to a volley of 20 Gauss rifle shots (usually causes 1 to 2 wounds, according again to i40K) and getting thinned out. Drop pods would leave them vulnerable for a turn, a Land Raider is expensive and would be reduced to rubble.

 

I'm looking into pairing this super-squad with a Scout Bike squad armed with a teleport homer and a locator beacon. Anyone have any luck with something like this? Using the scouts to drop in reinforcements with perfect accuracy?

[Commander Proteus]

Well, you're on the right tracks. If you're avoiding armor, then I would reccomend a Devastator squad. It won't bash in any metal skulls, but you can wipe a squad off the board if you're good. Heavy Bolters/Missile launchers work well, though you could throw in a Plasma Cannon.

 

Also, the Tri-Las Predator really comes in handy here. Monoliths, C'tan, Spyders, units of Destroyers, they all fall to the big bad lascannon. If you take no other tanks, take that one.

 

Terminators are a good choice, but they can fall short because of their numbers. Elite wise, I reccomend Sternguard, as you opted, or fire-support Dreads. Assault Cannons and Lascannons are your friends here.

 

Basically, the Necrons are a good list to take apart one chunk at a time. Nail a squad or two at once, rinse, lather, repeat.

 

It's funny, but "dismantling" is the best term for whooping Necron ass, literally, and metaphorically.

 

-Proteus

[Divergent Reality]

have you considered assault marines as an option?

 

they can get in close while avoiding a considerable bit if return fire.

 

you dont need to completely wipe the squad, you just need to put down enough models to force them to break and run.

 

i would also suggest looking at the latest necron faq as it changes a few things on how the necrons work.

[JTibbetts]

Thanks, Divergent. I read through the FAQ. I currently use one 5-man squad of assault marines, and have been very pleased with their results so far. I would like to get a jump-pack Chaplain for them as well... But, they seem good for now.

 

And Proteus, I am looking at Devastator squads. It seems to me that HB's and Missile Launchers aren't terribly effective! Am I missing something? I was planning on running two plasma cannons, one missile launcher and one lascannon. Seemed decent to me. The PC's are the real star, in my book. The ML and Lascannon are really there to deal with the bigger guys that come along.

 

That begs the question: What do you seasoned Necron players hate to get shot with? What sort of Dev. Squads do you guys run against high armor foes?

[Divergent Reality]

for necrons its just like any other 3+ save force: buckets of dice. you throw enough stuff to cause saves and squads break. necrons run like everyone else. my greatest dislike are large blast templates and weapons with high rates of fire. plasma, krak missiles and melta vs warriors i could care less about. they get a wbb, i lose a couple models. you force me to throw a bucket of dice in armor saves and i start to sweat. a neat trick for you to try. see if you can 'herd' all of your opponents warriors into a single large squad. they may start with four squads of ten, but could end up with one squad of thirty warriors.

[graydeth]

Sorry to thread jump, but I am facing Necrons tonight and wanted to get and opinion on a possible list:

 

Shrike

 

10 man Vanguard Vet squad all w/ PW, 1 Plama pistol, Sgt w/ Plasma pistol

 

10 man Vanguard Vet squad all w/ PW

 

10 man Sternguard in Drop Pod, 10 Combiflamers

 

2 - 10 Man Tac Squads/Rhino/Plasma Cannon/Flamer in each/Sgt w/PW

[Divergent Reality]

the list will obliterate in hand to hand. the problem is that it obliterates in hand to hand. unless the assaults are well timed you will wipe a squad, then get shot a whole lot. the list can work. the flamers will be useful for taking care of the t4 or lower models. you will eat scarabs. if they take monoliths you will be somewhat hosed. one particle whip can wipe most of as squad a turn and you cant stop them.

[Lord Solcia]

Necrons are what I do best! Best bits of advice? Plasma and Vindicators seem to mess em up REAL nice. Also, always concentrate on the Warriors. As odd as it is to say, ignore the Monolith and MC's they'll put out for as long as you can. Many a times I've wiped out all the Warriors, making them phase out before their big baddies could even TOUCH me.

 

-Solcia

[happybounce]

In my experience, the best thing to do is have power weapons or (preferably) power fists on all your tac squad sgts, then get stuck in. Bogging down a whole squad of Necron warriors while you pound away at them turn after turn works twice: you're killing them better than they kill you, AND you are making damn sure that squad of warriors isn't shooting at anything else. I agree that the missile options are a good call if you're going to run drop pods. Having str 5 large blast templates to toss around is nothing to sneeze at, and it means that occasionally your opponent might feel compelled to waste a round of shooting on a drop pod.

 

If you're having problems with leadership, you could always run Lysander. He's my go-to guy for every game, stubborn really kicks ass.