Which Legion dissapointed you the most?

[Capt. Lysander]

P.S AND LOKEN :) DIES, GET OVER IT PPL

 

Man, i can't wait to do the "I told you Loken lives and helps found the Grey Knights" dance.

 

/Ducks the "no talking about Loken" Police/

 

I'm not saying it's not possible but... In order for him to survive, he would have to make it out of the bombardment, provided he then made it through the marines, and getting stabbed... After all that, it's only the simple matter of finding a barge to travel to the Imperium :P

 

Edit: Quote fix, Insane Psychopath

[The Emperor's Champion]

Yea, Loken is hanging out with Tupac and Elvis.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Guys, don't try to argue the point. One, I don't want to see yet another thread closed because of endless debating over whether Loken lives or dies; Two, because I've already posted countless times in the first thread discussing the topic, giving many, many reasons why Loken can't have made it, yet Walkier never gives up. I just don't think I can stand to see the same arguments repeated ad nauseum again.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Man, i can't wait to do the "I told you Loken lives and helps found the Grey Knights" dance.

 

/Ducks the "no talking about Loken" Police/

 

Lord Lorne Walkier, you've already had a many, many-paged thread on whether Loken lives or dies. That one finally died out after going round and round in circles about fifteen times. If you want to discuss Loken's fate, or want to experiment on how many times a thread can go round in circles before the Moderati close it, I'd suggest posting in there rather than here.

 

EDIT: No, scratch that, the question has already been answered because the thread has been closed. Still, that means we don't have to go through all the motions again! :)

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

I though this topic was about Which Legion dissapointed you the most?, Wich legion loyal/traitor disspointed you the most during the heresy?. Not if Loken is a live or not :lol:

 

IP

[Korraz]

The Word Bearers dissapointed me most, by far. Most of the other traitor Legions and Primarchs were brought down and corrupted, but Lorgar jumped right into chaos, just because he wanted to warship something.

 

Next are the Nightlords. Seriously, Curze was never quite right in his head, but then he destroyed a few planets, just because he felt like it and says "kay, I cant feel the flow. Gettin my pals for a roadtrip. Seeya." And then he basically gave up and wated for his death.

[Pacific81]

You could also argue though that the Night Lords were the logical extreme of what it means to be an Astartes - some of the worlds in the path of the Great Crusade must have caught wind of the massive destructive force that was heading towards them, and what legion epitomises the Legions more than the Night Lords? They made use of the psychological impact of the force they represented, then struck with intelligence and great cunning.

 

In the Dark King, Kurze has a discussion of this nature with Dorn on a world they had recently brought into compliance - showing that conquered worlds cannot necessarily be trusted to remain loyal, and that the only way to guarantee obedience is through fear.

 

Criticize the Night Lords for how they ended up after the Heresy, but during the Crusade they were remarkably effective at what they did, as were many of the other traitor legions. You could of course argue, perhaps too effective? :)

[Korraz]

Don't get me wrong, the Tactics of the Lords were great. Guilliman should have included them in the Codex, a Terrorforce would be a great addition for every chapter (just imagine: Space Marines with the moralbreaking abilities close to the Dark Eldar!) but the Haunter didn't stop. He went farther and farther on this path and one day he went too far. In addition to that, he wasn't able to see his mistake and refused to take responsibility (IMO), but went on and the whole thing became even messier.

 

He was a highly intelligent realist, but I think he had already a affinity for depressions (in connection with his visions) and the life on Nostramo did not really improve this. I think in the end he was just overwhelmed by the violence and the insanity of the universe, where even the closest brothers fight each other and surrender themselfes willing to chaos. But thats just my interpretation of the whole thing.

Still, he disappointed me somehow. Maybe because he's one of my favourite primarchs.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I have to agree... although I love the Night Lords, their primarch was just an epic fail. Sitting around waiting for his death naked? This guy went insane over the violence and the death and the universe, when nobody else did? What the heck? Why was such an awesome legion stuck with such a failure?

 

Before he went insane he was one of my favorites, simply because I liked his view of tactics and how to conduct warfare. Stealth marines is my calling, and Corax is one of my favorites for the same reason. (Although he was screwed by the fluff given to him as well, in the form of the 'Nevermore' line).

[StormWarriors2]

The Entire Son's of The Horus.

REALLY HORUS WHAT ARE YOU THINKING! *slaps him in the back of the head*

Second one is the Salamanders. "uhhh where were you exactly?"

third one is the RavenGuard because they got pwned pretty easily.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

The Entire Son's of The Horus.

REALLY HORUS WHAT ARE YOU THINKING! *slaps him in the back of the head*

 

Lolz.

 

Second one is the Salamanders. "uhhh where were you exactly?"

 

Um, not sure what you mean, their legion pretty much got destroyed by the dropsite massacres of Istvaan V...

 

third one is the RavenGuard because they got pwned pretty easily.

 

See what I said about the Salamanders.

[Artein]

When talking about Night Lords, read Lord of the Night first. Then you can criticize.

[StormWarriors2]

Night lords are kinda wierd they are all criminals. Yes I know the Night Lords are a weird legion when it comes down to it.

 

The Salamanders are the smallest legion. But at least they could have made up with it.

 

The Raven Guard are known for their stealth. But they are well known for their drop assualts. And for Corax Looking up porn when he gets the chance. Thats why i don't like him

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

When talking about Night Lords, read Lord of the Night first. Then you can criticize.

I will do that, it just seems so... pathetic, I wouldn't expect any primarch to do what the did, which was giving up on life. Fulgrim I don't like for the same reason, in the end, he just gave up. He is more redeemed because I read his story, and what he had to go through, which was horrible( in the end the Keeper of Secrets brought on him exactly what he had done, which was killing and betaying his closest brother, and serving unwittingly serving a terrible, terrible being).

 

I will go read Lord of Night, perhaps it shall illuminate me why Curze did what he did.

[Artein]

I will go read Lord of Night, perhaps it shall illuminate me why Curze did what he did.

One of the best BL novels, with flashbacks to Heresy and post-Heresy stuff, great insight into Night Lords and Curze himself, their relationship with Chaos....

It's a must-read.

[Legatus]

I will go read Lord of Night, perhaps it shall illuminate me why Curze did what he did.

Don't count on it. The protagonist of that book is a former Crusade/Heresy era Night Lords Commander who had been played and purposefully been kept in the dark about the changing Night Lords throughout the Heresy and whose memories that we get to read about during the book are therefor heavily biased. The protagonist did't know half of what had happened to the Legion, and he had been told a neat little story by Curze himself about how it was all the Emperor's fault.

It is actually resolved at the end of the book, but by that time a lot of readers have come to accept his limited and misguided view as actual fact and are then doubting the clarification of the events that is given at the end.

 

The book is about the hunt for an artifact of importance for the Night Lords, so I hope I did not spoiler too much for you. It is just that the Night Lords were not actually as righteous and wrongfully accused as the protagonist is convinced throughout the book. :D

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

third one is the RavenGuard because they got pwned pretty easily.

As a Raven Guard fan, i will agree that their showing at the drop site massacre was unimpressive at the least. Corax having already seen through Horus even before the Heresy started, should have not underestimated the Rebels as it seems he did. Following the fool Manus and attacking before his "back up" shows makes me question my belief that Corax was a master Tactician. The Fools that follow the fool being more foolish, en all. Even if the loyalists did not know about their back up being traitors attacking 4 Legions with only 3 cant really be justified, especially one of those being led by the Warmaster.

 

I must also say that I am also pretty dissapointed in Horus and the Luna Wolves for two reasons. One for being unable to wipe out the Loyalists in his Legion, to a man with out resorting Orbital bombardments. If he had not made it clear that he knew that dropping bombs on your enemy was no way to make sure they were all dead then i might have given him a pass on this.

 

Finally risking the ire of the You know who police, i will say that Abaddon was pretty much a disappointment. For a guy who is later known as the Dispoiler it is kinda sad that he could not kill an equal when he had such a clear advantage. Wearing Terminator armor an Powerfist against a guy who had only a chain sword and Mark 3 suit.

[c-wrex]

The Salamanders are the smallest legion. But at least they could have made up with it.

 

The Raven Guard are known for their stealth. But they are well known for their drop assualts. And for Corax Looking up porn when he gets the chance. Thats why i don't like him

 

Elaborate on these two points.

 

What does "The Salamanders are the smallest legion. But at least they could have made up with it." this mean?

 

And what is this porn that Corax looks at that you refer to?

[StormWarriors2]

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/members/171240-albums2407-picture22771.jpg

That Explains it for corax.

 

But still Vulkan had flamers and melta Weapons which should of delt with the enemy forces located there.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/members/171240-albums2407-picture22771.jpg

That Explains it for corax.

 

But still Vulkan had flamers and melta Weapons which should of delt with the enemy forces located there.

 

 

What explains it for Corax? You never gave us an answer that explained anything!

 

All the legions had that, and dealt with the forces located where? Istvaan five?

[c-wrex]

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/members/171240-albums2407-picture22771.jpg

That Explains it for corax.

 

But still Vulkan had flamers and melta Weapons which should of delt with the enemy forces located there.

 

Because every Salamander had a flamer and a meltagun AND a bolter, and switched them out as they needed them :tu:

 

Obvious troll is obvious.

[StormWarriors2]

UGH!

Corax was not a very good military stratgesit he went head long into a area.

As well as Vulkan who should of not underesitmated Horus's Stratgetic abilities.

Last time i checked the only one who runs head long is Russ.

Corax is suppose to be stealthy and yet he acted like and iduiot and went headlong instead of the other apporach.

 

Vulkan known for his extreme use of technology and for being in and out of a situation fairly quickly.

[c-wrex]

UGH!

Corax was not a very good military stratgesit he went head long into a area.

As well as Vulkan who should of not underesitmated Horus's Stratgetic abilities.

Last time i checked the only one who runs head long is Russ.

Corax is suppose to be stealthy and yet he acted like and iduiot and went headlong instead of the other apporach.

 

Vulkan known for his extreme use of technology and for being in and out of a situation fairly quickly.

 

 

I refer you to the Raven Index Astartes article. Since you likely don't have it, let me paraphrase: Corax is trapped on a world held under iron hard tyranny. He organizes, trains, and plants troops at precise locations around the world. Corax gives the signal and his trained rebels kick asses. Names may have been taken.

 

Also, neither Corax nor Vulkan ran headlong into anything at Isstvan. They were under the authority of Ferrus Manus. As some will know, I have a dislike for Ferrus for his handling of that battle, but the point is it was his call, not theirs.

 

How was Horus underestimated? How could any of the three legions first present at the Dropsite Massacre have known that their four backup legions would be traitors?

 

Russ does not run head long, even he has plans and schemes that eventually lead to running head long. The only primarch who just goes up the centre is Angron.

 

Corax is not about stealth, he is about precision, there is a HUGE difference.

 

Where do you get the idea that Vulkan is a get-in and get-out kind of primarch? Also, he is about craftsmanship and patience, not technology.

 

Lurk moar.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Couple of things to say to that...

 

1) Corax wasn't in control. Ferrus was.

 

2) This was legions duking it out! In and out of a situation quickly wouldn't apply here, its just one big morass of combat. Leaving would result in their brothers dying.

 

3) And they lost because the legions they were expecting to help them destroyed them.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

stormwarriors2: just want to point out you got pwned.

 

WLK