brotherAkkyshan Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 You have to remeber that outside of the archives on Terra and an individual chapters libraries, very little is known about the Astartes. To your average Imperial citizen a space marine is a space marine. Couple this with the fact that a chapter would 'bury' any incriminating evidence to hide it from the Inquisition, it is highly probable that more chapters have suffered losses to Chaos than are known about! :whistling: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2149408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrathnar Flintfang Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Personally I think all the rigid discipline would make them the MOST likely to snap and fall to Chaos, but that is just me As for fluff, just remember no reason to shackle yourself to convention. The Fluff writers who get paid for it sure as hell don't. If they can't be bothered to fact check simple things when a Wiki is up, you should have reign to make any chapter you want have some renegades from it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2149496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Personally I think all the rigid discipline would make them the MOST likely to snap and fall to Chaos, but that is just me As for fluff, just remember no reason to shackle yourself to convention. The Fluff writers who get paid for it sure as hell don't. If they can't be bothered to fact check simple things when a Wiki is up, you should have reign to make any chapter you want have some renegades from it. It's not even that, they've been working for the company for a while, and probably play Space Marines or IG themselves. Hence the majority of books is about smurfs or some mary sue marine chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2150110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void Stalkers Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 It's a slippery slop fluff-wise, but IMO it's possible to make an army based off renegade Ultras. I say this cause Im working on something similar! :lol: IMO the Turned-during-the-heresy option would be the easiest to explain with fluff. There were thousands in the legions, so there could have been quite a few to fall to chaos individually or, if you're feeling bold, entire companies or even whole chapters! but, it would be difficult to explain a whole warband of chaos Ultras without saying they were all individual renegades and came together. It would be your choice how to explain it (I went with heresy-era company lost in the warp :( ) maybe a sympathy for the warmaster or, like Hrathnar Flintfang stated, because of all the :cuss discipline! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2150176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhrin Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Modern Ultramarines army gone to Chaos? Unlikely. Ultramarines from the Heresy days? No problem. Ultramarine successor chapter? Totally easy. One or two Ultramarines who take charge of a Chaos warband and call the whole lot Ultramarines? Equally fine. Annoying Ultramarine players? Priceless. There are some things money can't buy. For everything else there are the Chaos Gods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2150392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drichar Deis Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 Modern Ultramarines army gone to Chaos? Unlikely. Ultramarines from the Heresy days? No problem. Ultramarine successor chapter? Totally easy. One or two Ultramarines who take charge of a Chaos warband and call the whole lot Ultramarines? Equally fine. Annoying Ultramarine players? Priceless. There are some things money can't buy. For everything else there are the Chaos Gods. Ha! Priceless! I'm going to go with the Heresey era idea I think, I love the idea of fighting with a whole corrupted Ultra Smurf army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2150512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allerka Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Modern Ultramarines army gone to Chaos? Unlikely. Ultramarines from the Heresy days? No problem. Ultramarine successor chapter? Totally easy. One or two Ultramarines who take charge of a Chaos warband and call the whole lot Ultramarines? Equally fine. Annoying Ultramarine players? Priceless. There are some things money can't buy. For everything else there are the Chaos Gods. I think that's the best first post I've ever seen on this forum. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2150810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
satanaka Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 My bad, it was the Sons of Guillieman story I was thinking about from the Chaos codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2151094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Evar Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I remember years ago seeing a UM CSM force at the Emperors Legion gaming club in Penrith OZ. It had defilers and a DP I think. It was a pretty cool army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2151180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Ultramarines from the Heresy days? No problem. Objection, based on the ground that the Horus Heresy background does not mention traitor groups from the loyalist Legions other than the Fallen Angels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2151567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Overruled, much of that background is not covered, and don't use BL as a crutch because 90% of it's stories are not cannon or even fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2151579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 With "Horus Heresy background" I am naturally refering to canonical GW fluff about the horus heresy, not the BL novel series or artbooks. Marines from the 9 loyalist Legions siding with the traitors has never been mentioned to my knowledge, so as far as we know it did not happen. If something like that did happen happen, that would have been be one of the important things to point out. The background does describe that a few members of the traitor Legions remained loyal and tried to warn the emperor. It does not describe anything the other way round, to my knowledge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2151645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Yes, and as you like to say, use your imagination for the rest :tu:. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2151730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseychaoslord Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 evil smurfs??? hhmmmm....... I love it!!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2151744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Thane Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 With "Horus Heresy background" I am naturally refering to canonical GW fluff about the horus heresy, not the BL novel series or artbooks. Marines from the 9 loyalist Legions siding with the traitors has never been mentioned to my knowledge, so as far as we know it did not happen. If something like that did happen happen, that would have been be one of the important things to point out. The background does describe that a few members of the traitor Legions remained loyal and tried to warn the emperor. It does not describe anything the other way round, to my knowledge. Nor does it deny it. It is negligeable fluff-wise if it involves only a handful of UM's or the likes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2151799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 A hand full, perhaps. We are talking about a whole army of renegade Ultramarines though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2151897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Not enough evidence to go against it. Regardless, I wouldn't care if he brought renegade smurfs, it would be a different change of pace. Really op, the only people who are likely to complain are Loyalist players. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2153259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshMullet Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 My AoD DIY "chapter" was started by some renegade ultra's, but gathered other renegades from other chapters. You could go down that route. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2153274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhrin Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Really op, the only people who are likely to complain are Loyalist players. And that, let's face it, is reason enough to do it in itself! While the fluff might suggest that marines like Ultras couldn't turn, almost all GW fluff is written from a pro-Imperial perspective. Treat the official fluff as official propaganda, there's some truth in it but only an exaggerated version of it. Or claim they washed through the Warp from an alternate dimension where the Ultras had all turned to Chaos :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2153431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Really op, the only people who are likely to complain are Loyalist players. And that, let's face it, is reason enough to do it in itself! While the fluff might suggest that marines like Ultras couldn't turn, almost all GW fluff is written from a pro-Imperial perspective. Treat the official fluff as official propaganda, there's some truth in it but only an exaggerated version of it. Or claim they washed through the Warp from an alternate dimension where the Ultras had all turned to Chaos :D Or just say half a company of Ultramarines got lost in the warp. Smurfs might be the most popular for plot armor and mary sue material, but GW has yet to write every detail of their history down. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2153436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I think these are perhaps the passages Seahawk had based his post on: From the Dawn of the Imperium they have served the Emperor with loyalty and a ferocity that no others can match. Codex Ultramarines, Back No warrior of the Ultramarines would bring shame on the Chapter Index Astartes Ultramarines, "Beliefs" Perhaps very broad and generic descriptions, but that's more or less their theme. So, since the original question was How would a CSM army based on corrupt/renegade Ultra Marines sit with the current fluff? The correct answer can only be: "Not that well." Whether someone still wants to do it is an entirely different matter. If you want to do it to get a reaction out of people, for example. That would certainly work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2154249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 One good twist (and this is coming from an Ultramarines player) is to say an Ultramarines Apothecary went renegade and took a load of Ultramarines Geneseed with him. As it is so pure it is easier to implant into new recruits, so that Ultramarine Apothecary, maybe flying back from a large battle with a store of geneseed and bodies of fallen Marines (with their lovely armour and weapons) and his ship and crew turned to Chaos with him (giving him a mobile base). So we now have 1 turned Renegade from modern times Ultramarines, with a bunch of weapons/armour and geneseed and a Naval crew keen to pillage some backwater planets, which the Apothecary uses to recruit malleable youngsters from and builds up a warband who owe their allegiance to him as their creator. Obviously I cannot condone a fluffy Ultramarines turning, but the Apothecary doesn't have to be an Ultramarine. Indeed, a successory Ultramarines Chapter could be tasked with sending the bodies of fallen Ultramarines back to his parent Chapter, then does a sly one and flies off with the bounty. I like this fluff so much I would do it myself, but at the moment can't afford a new army! Someone else can do it for me and probably do better conversions ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2154473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 no one knows if there were no ultramarines traitors durning the heresy . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2154538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 no one knows whether during his fight the Emperor, Horus gave him an atomic wedgie. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2154621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 actually the fluff on the fight was very good writen from the emperors perspective. But again why wouldnt it be possible ? the old RT fluff said the ultras we had then[in RT]were a chapter created to fill the whole after a same named one went to chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/181387-renegade-ultramarines/page/2/#findComment-2154677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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