Renegade Ultramarines

[Allerka]

I think these are perhaps the passages Seahawk had based his post on:

 

From the Dawn of the Imperium they have served the Emperor with loyalty and a ferocity that no others can match.

Codex Ultramarines, Back

 

No warrior of the Ultramarines would bring shame on the Chapter

Index Astartes Ultramarines, "Beliefs"

 

Perhaps very broad and generic descriptions, but that's more or less their theme.

 

So, since the original question was

 

How would a CSM army based on corrupt/renegade Ultra Marines sit with the current fluff?

The correct answer can only be: "Not that well."

 

Whether someone still wants to do it is an entirely different matter. If you want to do it to get a reaction out of people, for example. That would certainly work.

Yeah, but EVERY codex says that about their respective Chapter, and we have Renegades from each of them. And that second quote certainly can't be very accurate, or at least no warrior would KNOWINGLY bring shame on the Chapter, otherwise why would they have a pre-defined ritual for kicking people out? ;)

 

Given there's nothing that directly states "No Ultramarine has ever turned renegade", claiming as much is entirely grasping at straws. Though I do like the Apothecary idea Captain Idaho brought up. ;)

[Legatus]

But again why wouldnt it be possible ? the old RT fluff said the ultras we had then[in RT]were a chapter created to fill the whole after a same named one went to chaos.

The old RT fluff also says that the Primarch of a Chapter was the Imperial Commanders who founded it. The old RT fluff also says that the Ultramarines were awarded with the Fortress Macragge in M41 after winning the last Tyrannic war, after thousands of years of fioghting against the Tyranids.

 

Given there's nothing that directly states "No Ultramarine has ever turned renegade", claiming as much is entirely grasping at straws.

As I said in my initial post: One Ultramarine, possible. A squad of Ultramatrines, difficult. A whole army of Ultramarines? Now we are leaving the realms of "fluffy". We don't have armies of renegade Ultramarines, as much as we don't have armies of renegade Imperial Fists. If whole companies of the loyalist Legions or the later loyalist first founding Chapters had defected to Chaos that would have to be mentioned in the fluff, or else we can for all purposes say it did not happen. It is too crucial an event to simply not mention it in the fluff. The fluff does not say that Marneus Calgar isn't secretly a C'tan. That does not exactly make it plausible for him to be one. Whole armies of renegade ex loyalist first founding Marines fall into that same category. There are the fallen Dark Angels, which are specirfically described. There are no fallen Imperial Fists or fallen Ultramarines mentioned. It would make the Dark Angel's secrecy and their whole agenda moot if there were.

[incinerator950]

Hey, if it's not corrected in the background material, he's free to do what he wants.

[Allerka]

Given there's nothing that directly states "No Ultramarine has ever turned renegade", claiming as much is entirely grasping at straws.

As I said in my initial post: One Ultramarine, possible. A squad of Ultramatrines, difficult. A whole army of Ultramarines? Now we are leaving the realms of "fluffy". We don't have armies of renegade Ultramarines, as much as we don't have armies of renegade Imperial Fists. If whole companies of the loyalist Legions or the later loyalist first founding Chapters had defected to Chaos that would have to be mentioned in the fluff, or else we can for all purposes say it did not happen. It is too crucial an event to simply not mention it in the fluff. The fluff does not say that Marneus Calgar isn't secretly a C'tan. That does not exactly make it plausible for him to be one. Whole armies of renegade ex loyalist first founding Marines fall into that same category. There are the fallen Dark Angels, which are specirfically described. There are no fallen Imperial Fists or fallen Ultramarines mentioned. It would make the Dark Angel's secrecy and their whole agenda moot if there were.

I agree, whole armies going renegade is pretty darn unlikely. What I was getting at was claims that no individual Ultramarine ever has turned is just silly, especially given plenty of stories of pretty much any other Chapter have a few go flaky, as well as other statements that only the Grey Knights have never had anyone turn (though I also seem to recall reading the same of the Iron Hands, which makes sense, but I can't remember the source, so don't quote me on that).

[Drichar Deis]

Ha ha! I have exploitable fluff for my cause!

 

I'd almost resigned myself to collecting Ultra-marines when I came upon this juicy little morsel of knowledge in the Ultra-marines section of the forum.

 

And I quote:

The battle barge "Pro Merito" was lost in the warp whilst in transit to put down a rebellion on "Tar Centiri"

Source: battle fleet gothic magazine 15 pg 22.

 

Thank you Ultra-smurfs!

[incinerator950]

Row Boat is not pleased :D

[Drichar Deis]

Row Boat is not pleased :D

 

 

Who?

 

So Ive got constructive licence with up to 300 marines and a lot of veichles, yeah baby yeah!

[Brother Hadafix]

Where was that reference to a Chaos BT? If its true then its quite a find, IMO BT would be one of the hardest of the Loyalists to turn bar GK.

 

Good find with that bit of fluff to back up your conversions, will there be more photos?

[Drichar Deis]

Sorce:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=122020

 

Naval Order of Battle

 

Battle Barges:

 

Pro Merito: "Lost in the warp while in transit to put down a rebellion on Tar Centiri." (Battlefleet Gothic Magazine 15, p. 22)

 

 

There will be progress pics but the camera on my Iphone isnt up to the job, so will have to find another one.

[Legatus]

So, in other words, you are taking the fluff about a ship that is lost in the warp but you say it is not lost in the warp?

[Drichar Deis]

All will become clear when I finish my fluff, I just needed a point to work from, who knows what happens to every lost ship?after all that's how the noble Death Guard became the now feared Plaque Marines, a little persuasion from the Chaos gods :devil:

[Legatus]

Yeah, but the Death Guard's current status is not "lost in the warp".

[Drichar Deis]

The Death Guard where lost in the warp, suffering from a plaque, they then prayed for help, Nurgle answered, so they swore fealty to him and where then released from the warp.

 

See where I'm going with this?

 

Time travels differently in the warp, they could have been supjected to psychological warfare for aeons to cause them to break.

[Dan The Deamon]

Lost in the Warp doesn't mean it's totally gone, it means the record keepers haven't heard anything about it since it was lost.

 

All twenty primarchs were lost to the warp at one point, yet they were found.

[Legatus]

Having been lost in the warp at some point and then coming back is one thing. Being currently considered lost in the warp as far as anyone knows is a different issue. If they are marauding through the universe and are fighting forces of all kind (which I assume they will be doing, since you will probably want to play them) then they are not really "lost", are they?

[Dan The Deamon]

To be honest there's been wierder crazier stuff happen in the 41st Millenium. The reason i like this game system and it's fluff so much is that you can write a story, some fluff, make every bit of it up. You will be well within the story and time line of a galaxy filled with untold numbers of xenos and trillions upon trillions of people.

 

I've read just about every 40k book i can find. The one thing i noticed in 99% of them is that the whole story has been made up. The characters created, fighting forces given composition and background, the stars and the solar system in 90% of them have been created by their authors. There's creative license in 40k to create anything you want and there's plenty of room to do so.

 

I just finished reading the whole soul drinkers series. Those books are testament to what you can create while leaving everyone elses fluff alone.

 

1 Space marine chapter gets stricken from imperial records (past, present, and anything they have touched or played a part in)

 

2 space marine chapter inhabits a space hulk made from collided ships in the warp. There is at least 20 craft from imperial and xenos design. Yet they are also stricken from record, so that every ship that is identified as being a part of the Brokenback will not be updated. Still 'lost in the warp'

 

3 Space marine chapter fights with the howling griffons, who in Chapter war were entirely made up and didn't change or alter the howling griffons history aside from what has already been factual.

 

4 Soul Drinkers fight the Crimson Fists and another space marine company and it's heroes have been made up.

 

5 Soul Drinkers fight and kill the deamon prince Abraxes who before the first soul drinkers book has never existed or has there been mention of.

 

6 Soul drinkers travel to 'uncharted' space and battle the Necrons, mechanicus, and have their run in with the imperial fists.

 

I could go on forever, the point is there was a total of about 3 names, people, and places in the entire series that ever had anything to do with already written established fluff. Drichar Dies found written, established fluff and is well within any right to expand upon it. The only reason you should be here telling him he can't is if you already used it.

 

 

It's a shame you can't think outside the narrow line of fluff that we call the galaxy and consider something happening that not everybody hears about.

[Drichar Deis]

Dans the man ^_^

 

cheers for the support.

 

Yes they where lost in the warp, they're not getting out till I finish making my army ;)

 

brief fluff:

 

lost in warp

tormented by daemons etc foe aeons

call for help

a daemon prince in the form of a two headed eagle/Aquila appears and has them declare their fealty

released as renegades

 

very brief, to be fluffed out.

[Dan The Deamon]

lost in warp

tormented by daemons etc foe aeons

call for help

a daemon prince in the form of a two headed eagle/Aquila appears and has them declare their fealty

released as renegades

 

very brief, to be fluffed out.

 

= Win

[Legatus]

You can write any back story for your models you want. Or you can try to stick close to the established canon. Something the Soul Drinkers series is not exactly known for (they are said to be a second founding chapter, the official canon sources disagree), and as is the case with a lot of Black Library novels. I generally find efforts to make ones own back story fit into the 40K continuum more commendable, but that's just me. From his initial post I got the impression that Drichar Dreis was trying to do that.

 

It's a shame you can't think outside the narrow line of fluff that we call the galaxy and consider something happening that not everybody hears about.

We are not talking about a back story no one has previously heared. We are talking about altering the story that is officially known.