Chaos Terminators - armament and squad size

[Sgt. Blank]

I've read the very helpful FAQs about Chaos Terminators and am excited to try out some of the suggested steps. I am in somewhat of a unique situation in that I've inherited a lot of old (cerca 1996) Chaos terminators and am trying to make sure I get the weapons set up well for the current codex.

 

I have 12 old metal terminators. I prefer to play WYSIWYG and, based on what I've read and the parts I have, I think I will probably split this into two squads and deep strike both. One will be "termicide" to pop vehicles, the other will be a large squad designed to inflict serious damage. The big downside at the moment is that I do not have any combi-plasma, so I am not quite sure what my best options are and how big to make the squads. Is it worth using all these terminators?

 

Parts list

 

Right arms:

Twin-linked bolter x 6

Combi-flamer x2

Combi-melta x2

Reaper Autocannon x2

 

Left Arms:

Power weapon x 7

Power fist x 3

Chainfist x2

 

Should I do:

 

3 man Termicide: Combi-melta, power weapon x2, Twin-linked bolter, Chainfist x1 - this squad for vehicle hunting.

 

7 man "shock troops": Reaper auto-cannon, power weapon x1, combi-flamer and power weapon x 2, twin-linked bolter and power weapon x 2, twin-linked bolter and power fist x1 - this squad has decent fire power and is relatively low cost for the survivability.

 

Any thoughts on what I ought to do before things get glued together? Thanks for the help!

[Redbaron997]

Well I hate Termicide, but a 5 man unit is a great investment.

 

Ther reaper pails in compaison to the very cheap and useful Heavy flamers. I usually take x2 Combi-Meltas for anti-armour. And a Chainfist for big things and vehicles.

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

Counterpoint: Termicide is awesome, large termie squads (especially dsing) much less so.

 

And where was this CSM TDA FAQ? (Acronyms ftw)

[Sgt. Blank]

The Chaos Lord's Handbook thread (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?act=findpost&pid=1379151) really outlines the tactics well, and just searching the forum gave some good information as well.

 

I am honestly thinking of running both termicide and a large squad of termies, since they fulfill different roles.

[ShotgunFacelift]

I thought power weps come standard?

 

My new list runs 2 x 3 man squads with Reaper Autocannons and 1 Combi-Melta.

The idea bieng to ds at pressure points next to my icons, or ds along their flanks / rear to pop armor.

But not tested yet.

 

Decided not to go with a 5man unit as the DS footprint is to large, and I typically get horrible scatter rollls.

[the jeske]

3 man with combis up to 1750 , 4 man with combis up to 2250. past that the game is no longer about tactics , if played on on normal sized tables .

 

hth termi squads are not viable [too few can get in to a land raider , one has to pick a lord to baby site them and a LR rush with zerkers works better . 5 man squads cost too much for what they do and because of the size of the unit [have to be give fists and/or icons too what buffs the cost] are an easy prey . at the same time 5 man is still too small for hth and over kill as shoting goes[2x3 works better then one unit of 5 or one unit of 6] .

 

arment .

the reaper is overcosted and not worth it , because unlike the AC it doesnt have rending and being twin linked doesnt help much when you have 2 shots with str 7 and all its problems[problems with hurting av 12/13 , does nothing to av 14]. conisidering termis are mostlly used as fire&forget units a reaper cost as much [actually more] then a termi with a combi weapon . two reapers are a whole oblit.

 

the hvy flamer . ok arment . cheap and effective against horde . thing is chaos already has units that are great against horde . zerkers , pms even csm are very good at killing orks or IG . on the other hand because of how chaos is build [and the number of mecha lists out there] poping transports and tanks , to kill them with oblits/dps etc is essessial to wining . a hvy flamer takes away the slot combi melta . unless the game is 1750pts or more dont use them [i wouldnt use them at more then 1750 , but at least picking up one doesnt hurt the list like it would at 1500].

 

the icons. only for fluff and even then one has to stronglly think if its a good idea to take the icons or termis at all in cult armies , because icons give hth buffs and terminators are very bad at hth.

combis . first of all people may notice they buy combi weapons and not actually named combi melta/plasma etc. second its the basic termi arment most of the squad should always have . mixing different combis is bad [unit becomes too unfocuse but unlike a 10 man csm unit with lets say a melta and RL , doesnt have the body count to ignonre the sub par pick]. plasma are good against rhinos , meqs , most MC but do nothing against LR rush. That is why everyone uses melta . combi flamers need to be too close to work [scater distance the size of flamer template] .

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

The Chaos Lord's handbook, while mostly good, is somewhat dated.

[Sgt. Blank]

I thought power weps come standard?

 

My new list runs 2 x 3 man squads with Reaper Autocannons and 1 Combi-Melta.

The idea bieng to ds at pressure points next to my icons, or ds along their flanks / rear to pop armor.

But not tested yet.

 

Decided not to go with a 5man unit as the DS footprint is to large, and I typically get horrible scatter rollls.

 

Power weapons are standard...was just trying to be clear which of the metal arms I'm using on which model.

 

I'm not sure about the autocannons; there are a lot of good anti-personnel units available and I thought the advantage of "termicide" is that the squad is specialized to kill vehicles and tough targets at a low(ish) point cost. Ideally, I won't be scattering too much, since I hope to get icons in rhino upfield pretty quickly. I figure they DS and fire meltas, if they survive they look for something to chainfist.

 

The Chaos Lord's handbook, while mostly good, is somewhat dated.

 

 

Fair enough...any thoughts on how to improve the squads I've outlined? I figure I will definitely get the 3 man squad on the field, since my regular opponents like vehicles a lot. I've got a lot of terminators because of how I've gotten the models, and I will probably turn a couple into Obliterators, but for the rest, how should I use them? Should I at all?

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

More termicide, if anything.

[ShotgunFacelift]

arment .

the reaper is overcosted and not worth it , because unlike the AC it doesnt have rending and being twin linked doesnt help much when you have 2 shots with str 7 and all its problems[problems with hurting av 12/13 , does nothing to av 14]. conisidering termis are mostlly used as fire&forget units a reaper cost as much [actually more] then a termi with a combi weapon . two reapers are a whole oblit.

 

While Expensive I find the range of the reaper a usefull tool to harrass an opponents flanks, distract his Heavy Hitting Ranged units.

My problem with running purely combi-equiped termi squads is that they generally have to be deployed within Rapid Fire / Assault range.

Meaning their good for one attempt to pop a transport or damage a high threat unit, and then get slaughtered in the opponents turn.

 

With the Reaper Equiped Squads I can DS them within 36" of a opposing unit, attack and then get another attack next turn.

As I'm deploying out of range of his large units (MEQ, Nid Warriors, Guardsmen) I wont have to take 10-20+ Armor saves, more thank likely it will be a few Heavy weapon shots that I might survive thanks to cover saves. In which case, those HW's were not focused on killing my tanks or demon prince.

 

I managed to us this with great success against a combined Tau and Nid opponent yesterday, with the Tau HW's being focused for T2 and T3 on the Termis that appeared along their flank.

While they only killed a devilfish, that was a whole lot of Hi Strength weaponry not focused on my main units defending the obj.

 

But then again, 2 x Reaper = 1 Oblit......hmmm :D

 

 

Sgt --

 

For 1000Pt I would run this loadout:

 

(DS then kill tanks)

3 x Termi

3 x Combi-Wep (Melta or Plasma)

 

(DS then pop transports / Shoot Rear armor / Distract)

3 x Termi

1 x Reaper Autocannon

1 x Combi-Wep

 

Or Just both with Combi weps

 

At 2k Points or 1.5K points I would run 3 of these

[Brother Nihm]

The Chaos Lord's handbook, while mostly good, is somewhat dated.

It's only dated because no one is providing input for it any more. :angry:

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

I know, but who wants to write "Well, there are 2 good builds. You can do other stuff, but it all plays the same." Kinda turns off new CSM players. Better to let them find out the harsh truth after they are committed :P

[Corpse.]

I know, but who wants to write "Well, there are 2 good builds. You can do other stuff, but it all plays the same." Kinda turns off new CSM players. Better to let them find out the harsh truth after they are committed ;)

 

Chaos players take for granted we get lots of good models. Our thousand sons still have stats that best basic space marines in melee of all places. Even if they pack a powerfist, we have 4+ inv save to negate half of those hits, and have a power weapon by default. We shoot and charge with the AP3 bolters so unless they caught the thousand sons off guard without firing a shot, they would be seriously hurting by the time they got in there. (points aside, TS cost a lot more, but who lets 20 face 10 without stopping half on the way there?)

 

All our models have a decent melee of one kind or another. Many of them worth or do better then what they cost even against codex creep.

 

Our shooting is lower to mid, but our melee is high. Thats the stats of the codex, why bother people with the tourny style builds when there are things some models can do the tourny builds don't have?

 

Spamming dakka predators with havoc launchers, 115 a HS. 345 for three, and you have effective firepower thats not rivalled easily by other armies (even a pair of leman russes can cost that much and still have trouble rivalling it by math-hammer). It does great against low end troops. What if the player wants to capitalize on that with 30 thousand sons and 3 sorcerers inside rhinos with combi-meltas and wind of chaos for his two technical "melta guns" of the unit? An auto-hit weapon that doesnt need 6" range for full effect, and the other a one shot gun that could hit a different target if the wind of chaos dealt the death blow.

 

Its by no means nothing to scoff at, and easily fit into a 1500 point force. Enough anti troop of all kinds to remove what he has to face. With the side option to change psychic powers without changing models each game.

 

That list low tier jeske? Certainly isnt high tier, but I don't think it's low as I run a similar army of sorts. An army that can give a lash player a little issue or two, being 4+ inv save for the blasts, and inside vehicles to ensure at least one volley gets off before being charged, and a force weapon for the non prince HQ/Oblits. (dreads are a weakness)

 

Feels like I'm giving another speech. I think almost any list (save for the really low end units) can be made viable with a little tweaking against most comers.

[the jeske]

(points aside, TS cost a lot more, but who lets 20 face 10 without stopping half on the way there?)

anything that has cover? the thing is anything a unit of 1ksons does a unit of pms or csm with 2 specials does just as good or better. hell even a tactical squad in cover does just as much dmg as a unit of 1k sons [well a 10 man unit of 1ksons that no one will ever use because it costs too much] and even if it is static [unlike the s&p 1ksons] it still costs 1/2 of what a same sized 1ksons squad costs.

 

. An army that can give a lash player a little issue or two, being 4+ inv save for the blasts, and inside vehicles to ensure at least one volley gets off before being charged, and a force weapon for the non prince HQ/Oblits.

it only gives problems for someone who plays a 9 oblits and 2 minimal troops build[what no one does]. the problem with 1 ksons is that . A they cost twice as many points for buffs that are hardlly very good . +4inv ? well in hth they will mostlly save on their normal armor[and unless they get charge by something like a tacticle they will lose] , shoting is the same , more durning shoting in 5th ed its easy to get a cover save of +4 or batter in some cases , ap3 bolters are all fine and dandy untile you notice they are still str 4 so 2/3 hit , half wound and then half get saved by cover ... not very effective considering the unit costs tons of points . psychic powers with short range are not ok . not if you have to waste the shoting from a whole unit[a unit that again costs a lot of points] , while at the same time most good armies [excluding chaos mirror matches] will negate them on +4 or better[in the case of SW with njal]. this is not a case of being tier 1 or tier 2 . NM water warrior are tier 2 and I play them at tournaments. 1ksons are unplayable in any setting know to man from 500pts to 1850pts.